New Cue Maker - Monster Cue

Chopdoc said:
I chimed in on the other thread I might as well on this one.

Personally, I don't like the cue. When I saw the points I thought "What dumb-ass thought of that?) OOOOPS! Does not matter what it is made of, who made it, or where is was made,....... if I like it, I like it.....if I don't, I don't.

Also, is it just me or do the points of the butt sleeve not line up with the points in the forearm?
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When i first saw the pictures of this cue i thought the design was awful as well...it appears as though the maker screwed up somewhere and decided to live it as such and call it "design/art".

But when i saw it in flesh everything just looks right, it's certainly a very unique design made interesting with selection of wood, colour combi and ring work. It looks modern.

But then again to each their own.

The butt and points do line up,just that with veneer points on opposite sides the pictures might have given you a wrong impression.
 
Jive said:
When i first saw the pictures of this cue i thought the design was awful as well...it appears as though the maker screwed up somewhere and decided to live it as such and call it "design/art".

But when i saw it in flesh everything just looks right, it's certainly a very unique design made interesting with selection of wood, colour combi and ring work. It looks modern.

But then again to each their own.

The butt and points do line up,just that with veneer points on opposite sides the pictures might have given you a wrong impression.
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Sir after some thought I think I owe you an apology. You have remained respectful and civil even with my comments which at this point I am certain were out of line and I also feel bad for saying. So for whatever it is worth, I was wrong to have acted in anyway negatively toward you on a personal level. While I still think the cue represents a case of design theft, I should not have spoken to you in the manner I did and for that I am truly sorry!!

Have a nice night
 
manwon said:
Sir after some thought I think I owe you an apology. You have remained respectful and civil even with my comments which at this point I am certain were out of line and I also feel bad for saying. So for whatever it is worth, I was wrong to have acted in anyway negatively toward you on a personal level. While I still think the cue represents a case of design theft, I should not have spoken to you in the manner I did and for that I am truly sorry!!

Have a nice night
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takes a hell of a man to say that. wish there were a lot more like you on this forum.

now i gotta learn how to give rep. you going to be the first one on here have repped.
 
manwon said:
Sir after some thought I think I owe you an apology. You have remained respectful and civil even with my comments which at this point I am certain were out of line and I also feel bad for saying. So for whatever it is worth, I was wrong to have acted in anyway negatively toward you on a personal level. While I still think the cue represents a case of design theft, I should not have spoken to you in the manner I did and for that I am truly sorry!!

Have a nice night
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Hi,

I appreciate you writing this, and i'd say it takes a real man to write this post after all the whirlwind postings that's been going on.

Apology accepted if any was needed to begin with, i see you are passionate about your hobby/job(not sure what you do) and thats a good thing. The industry and community needs that.

This cue has materialized, and there's nothing i can do to destroy it nor punish the maker. What i have done though is translating this entire thread and the other that you've started on design theft for the friend of mine who owns the cue and have gotten him to convey it to the maker. This maker aspires to be a world class cue maker and now i feel guilty that i might have caused some harm in tarnishing his reputation. That said, i am convinced neither of them will make another cue similar and will be more wary of design ownership.

One thing i still take my stand on is that i will not remove this thread or the pictures. I still do think it's a great looking cue and good workmanship and i'd like to share.
However i still stand by my words that if moderators or RC feels strongly about this thread then i will certainly remove this thread. I'm not being difficult, perhaps an*l....

Thanks again manwon, no hard feelings just different people with different opinion and it's differences like these that helps the world progress, well not this exact discussion ofcourse... :D
 
manwon said:
Sir after some thought I think I owe you an apology. You have remained respectful and civil even with my comments which at this point I am certain were out of line and I also feel bad for saying. So for whatever it is worth, I was wrong to have acted in anyway negatively toward you on a personal level. While I still think the cue represents a case of design theft, I should not have spoken to you in the manner I did and for that I am truly sorry!!

Have a nice night
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Dammit Craig! I am not allowed to rep you any more until I give some out to others.
 
Jive said:
Hi,

I appreciate you writing this, and i'd say it takes a real man to write this post after all the whirlwind postings that's been going on.

Apology accepted if any was needed to begin with, i see you are passionate about your hobby/job(not sure what you do) and thats a good thing. The industry and community needs that.

This cue has materialized, and there's nothing i can do to destroy it nor punish the maker. What i have done though is translating this entire thread and the other that you've started on design theft for the friend of mine who owns the cue and have gotten him to convey it to the maker. This maker aspires to be a world class cue maker and now i feel guilty that i might have caused some harm in tarnishing his reputation. That said, i am convinced neither of them will make another cue similar and will be more wary of design ownership.

One thing i still take my stand on is that i will not remove this thread or the pictures. I still do think it's a great looking cue and good workmanship and i'd like to share.
However i still stand by my words that if moderators or RC feels strongly about this thread then i will certainly remove this thread. I'm not being difficult, perhaps an*l....

Thanks again manwon, no hard feelings just different people with different opinion and it's differences like these that helps the world progress, well not this exact discussion ofcourse... :D
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Thank you for excepting my apology, and you are certainly right we are people first, and in that regard we act like adults. While we can maintain our opinion's they are not more important than any negative actions that we relate while giving them.

Thanks again for excepting my apology, and for that you are certainly the far bigger man than myself, you have remained respectful to everyone!!
 
manwon said:
Thank you for excepting my apology, and you are certainly right we are people first, and in that regard we act like adults. While we can maintain our opinion's they are not more important than any negative actions that we relate while giving them.

Thanks again for excepting my apology, and for that you are certainly the far bigger man than myself, you have remained respectful to everyone!!
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Thanks buddy, now don't lose no sleep! It was a good exchange and now we're all for the better.
 
manwon said:
Sir after some thought I think I owe you an apology. You have remained respectful and civil even with my comments which at this point I am certain were out of line and I also feel bad for saying. So for whatever it is worth, I was wrong to have acted in anyway negatively toward you on a personal level. While I still think the cue represents a case of design theft, I should not have spoken to you in the manner I did and for that I am truly sorry!!

Have a nice night
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Craig Jive is my freind and i have had several deals with him , and will be doing more . and I trust he would not have list this cue for all to see if he knew it was a copy . Thanks for the apoligy , take a man to do that .
 
imho

Personally, I like the look of the cue. I really like that the veneer colors change and I like how it was carried over into the rings as well.
I've actually been talking to some cumakers about getting something similarly done.

In regards to copying Chudy.. I'm sure he'd be a bit upset. Rich is an artist and an innovator.
He'd consider it disrespectful since he invented the single sided 'asymmetrical' veneer design.

That being said, I'm glad that everyone worked it out. :smile:
 
So if I copy Efren Reyes' style of play then it's respectful. But if I copy someones style of design then it's disrespectful?

I thought that in school we were all taught to look up to and emulate our idols? Successful people are held up as the goal we are told to go for and yet when we copy them to get there we are told we are vile.

I have a 2 year old, what should I tell her to do?
 
Style

Not disagreeing with you at all.
We both have lived our lives running on the adrenaline of inspiration. We pull it from every source we can. And we also use the conceptualization of others as a driving force to better ourselves. All living creatures learn from each other.

I was actually referring to this exact question posted to Rich Chudy regarding his single sided veneer design when asked about design theft. I will quote it verbatim if I get permission to do so.
 
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cyrex said:
Not disagreeing with you at all.
We both have lived our lives running on the adrenaline of inspiration. We pull it from every source we can. And we also use the conceptualization of others as a driving force to better ourselves. All living creatures learn from each other.

I was actually referring to this exact question posted to Rich Chudy regarding his single sided veneer design when asked about design theft. I will quote it verbatim if I get permission to do so.
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And I wasn't disagreeing with you which is why I didn't quote you. I just have put a lot of thought into this subject over the years and I don't understand where the line is between respect/disrespect and style/design theft.

I understand the laws - which vary by the way throughout the world. There is a LOT of debate about the IP laws in the USA and how they need to be overhauled.

It seems that the great thinkers throughout time have always been on the side of sharing rather than restriction. Restriction serves commerce and openness serves innovation. (although the case is made that in fact stronger IP restriction serves innovation)

I understand that there does need to be a commercial reward for investors in research to look forward to. There needs to be some protection for those in the arts to enjoy the fruit of their labor. All that is clear.

The case goes both ways that without protection a lot of great innovations wouldn't have happened. True enough but a lot of what we enjoy came out world wide collaborations in an open format as well.

Everything else is grey. As the saying goes, you may have been the first to do it but you won't be the last.
 
Patents

..............
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. The cue looks very cool.
 
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Just want to add my 2cents. I don't know who did, but somebody way back came up with the slotted diamond design. This diamond has found it's way onto many a cuemakers designs. Craftsmen sometimes borrow from other craftsmen and then use and/or improve upon the other's design. This particular cuemaker must have seen Chudy's point design and thought to use the same design but, use different veneer colors for each point, thereby taking the design in another direction.Again, just my 2cents.
 
pigsRflying said:
Just want to add my 2cents. I don't know who did, but somebody way back came up with the slotted diamond design. This diamond has found it's way onto many a cuemakers designs. Craftsmen sometimes borrow from other craftsmen and then use and/or improve upon the other's design. This particular cuemaker must have seen Chudy's point design and thought to use the same design but, use different veneer colors for each point, thereby taking the design in another direction.Again, just my 2cents.
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Yes you are right, that design was copied from the Musical Instrument industry. Those designs have been used in Guitars far longer than they were ever used in pool cues. But, if I had to guess I think Frank Paradise may have started using them in cues before anyone else.
 
manwon said:
Yes you are right, that design was copied from the Musical Instrument industry. Those designs have been used in Guitars far longer than they were ever used in pool cues. But, if I had to guess I think Frank Paradise may have started using them in cues before anyone else.
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Hmmm... Interesting bit of info. Now that you mention it, I do recall seeing them on some guitar necks, between the frets, in the past.
 
manwon said:
Yes you are right, that design was copied from the Musical Instrument industry. Those designs have been used in Guitars far longer than they were ever used in pool cues. But, if I had to guess I think Frank Paradise may have started using them in cues before anyone else.
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And if you really go back you can find almost every design every done on cues was influenced by decorations done hundreds to thousands of years ago. Not the specific arrangements but the overall tone and feel.

I study design and I buy books detailing the designs of ancient civilizations. I also make it a practice to visit museums and galleries and antique shops. To that end I see a lot of very old items that clearly have all the elements of design we see in today's pool cues.

I doubt that Frank Paradise was the first use such inlays. If you go back in time you will find very ornate cues done in the early part of the 20th century as well as in the latter part of the 19th century.

For example http://normanclare.co.uk/CueCollection.html
 
JB Cases said:
And if you really go back you can find almost every design every done on cues was influenced by decorations done hundreds to thousands of years ago. Not the specific arrangements but the overall tone and feel.

I study design and I buy books detailing the designs of ancient civilizations. I also make it a practice to visit museums and galleries and antique shops. To that end I see a lot of very old items that clearly have all the elements of design we see in today's pool cues.

I doubt that Frank Paradise was the first use such inlays. If you go back in time you will find very ornate cues done in the early part of the 20th century as well as in the latter part of the 19th century.

For example http://normanclare.co.uk/CueCollection.html
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John by the way, thanks for the link it was some good reading. But John no where that I saw unless I missed something did that link or any other I have ever seen show cues with Slotted Diamond inlays that were made before the late 1940's and that was topic of discussion.

I certainly do not know all there is to know on this subject it is way to broad and complicated, but I have never seen Slotted Diamond in lays in any cue that was made earlier than the late 1940's, unless it was a tribute cue that was made much later.

I don't know why this was the case but it appears to be the case even though the Slotted Diamonds were used in Guitars as early as the late 1920's.

So I will make my statement again, and please prove me wrong is you can. But it appears that Frank Paradise started using these inlays in cues in the 1950's and continued to use them until his death. It also appears that Palmer more than any other company started incorporating these into their designs as a regular feature in the early 1960's, most likely because of their association with Frank. Then it appears that every other single Cue maker production or other wise followed suit and the Slotted Diamond because a common inlay for pool cues.

Like I said above if anyone has any information to the contrary of what I said please post it.

Thanks Craig
 
I like the cue. If it's design theft he copied the good stuff and was smart enough not to copy the B.S. pin. His points are nice and sharp also. He only improved things.
"country" Bob
 
Chudy

Here is a quote from Rich Chudy on the 'Ask The Cuemaker' section on the Jimbo's Army forum. He was specifically asked about his single sided veneers...

Question:
"The single sided veneers is a design element that I had never seen before you did it, can you tell us if that is something you invented on your own, and how did it come to be? Did you ever see it done prior to you doing it and why do you feel that in todays world of lazy copy cats have we not seen it copied more?"

RC's reply:
"Well, SSV, as far as I know, came into being at the AHSBE back in 1992 or 1993. It was the second show and the first at Valley Forge. I wanted to do something a little different so I decided to do an ebony point on an ebony cue with spectrum colored veneers on one side. The effect was cool as the point disappeared and all you could see were the veneers. I had a lot of people trying to figure it out (always a good thing). When I applied the same technique to a regular design the cat was out of the bag. So, yeah I’ll take credit for inventing it. It really has become a trademark look for me. And I guess others haven’t copied it out of…respect???"
 
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