New cue received and not as expected- Need opinions please

[rebop]

Hi folks,

Normally I live in the buy/sell topic here, but need a few opinions and thought this might be a better place to post tonight.

I just received brand new cue I ordered from a builder known on these forums. I do not know if he is active here, and do not wish to feel like I am accusing him behind his back and will not mention a name. I paid a fair price. Not a bargain, not excessive. Fair, at least in my opinion. But I need a reality check.

Some of the workmanship is very good. Some surprises jumped out at me upon opening the package. I really do need an opinion of how much if any I am overreacting.

He are the issues in order of my judgement of severity.

This was made from a Titlist blank. Although many pictures were sent to me along the way, there was no picture nor mention that one point was damaged near the wrap end and was repaired. Three points are perfect. And of course this repair, though reasonably done if it was repairing my damaged cue, just jumps out to me and leaves me feeling perhaps a bit deceived. This is the worst of the problems.

Second, I specified a tip diameter for both shafts and it is close, but over a tad. But more, the taper seems different than any other shafts I have ever owned. Maybe they are conical as opposed to pro-taper? Should this have been discussed by the builder or should I bear the responsibility for not mentioning it. I just assumed... Would you have done the same?

And for lesser issues, the weight stamp was left on the forearm although no picture along the way showed this. So I expected it not to be there. I would have preferred it not there. Should that have been disclosed?

And last, the builders name is stamped into the sleeve. Bothers me less than any of the above, but I was surprised I was not asked if I wanted it there or not? Unreasonable expectation when ordering a cue to my spec?

There are a little more things such as I asked for tip pads and there are none.

But very seriously, am I out of line to be upset about any of the above? And if not, what would you do?

I have not shot with this. It might be wonderful. I also have not contacted the builder as I am using this post to take a breath and see if I am being unreasonable. Mostly about the repaired point. Lesser on the taper, etc. The last thing I want to do is trash a builders reputation or even cast any doubts if I should have had the forethought to specify taper, weight stamp removal, name. But would I be unreasonable if the point repair alone was enough to ask to return it?

What do you think?

Thanks.

 

[Safety]

I think that the taper and the builder's name being stamped into the sleeve are your responsibility. If you have a specific taper that you want, you should've mentioned it to him. If you did not mention one, most cue builders will usually just use their standard taper, which for me personally is part of the joy in getting a new custom cue to try out. As for his name being stamped, you should've know how he marks his cues. If you didn't, you should've asked. Some cue builders will exclude their mark if you ask, and if not, most of them will atleast hide it for you. But I feel that it is still your responsibility to tell him how you wanted it marked if you didn't like the way he normally marks it.

For the tip diameter, what do you mean by a "tad" bigger? If it is off by only 0.2mm or less, I don't think it is that big of a deal. However, if you really feel strongly about it, he should have the courtesy to fix it for you free of charge if he is a good business person. I'm also sure that he just forgot about the tip pads and that should be fixed for you as well.

Finally the Titlist blank. I'm assuming you didn't see the blank first hand. If this was the case, I would've asked him about the condition of the blank. This includes the points being even and the diameter of the blank. Some of them are bigger than others and the cue maker can just sand off the bad outer layer and still have enough wood to make a cue. Other blanks are too small in diameter and cannot be sanded down. However, even if you didn't ask, he should've told you about the condition of the point that needed to be repaired and maybe even that the weight stamp was going to be there.

As for right now, I wouldn't hit a single ball with the cue. Keep it in brand new condition and see if you and the cuemaker can come up with a resolution that you are both comfortable with. If that doesn't work, you can always sell it in the wanted/for sale section and cut your loses.

Sorry that you have to go through this. I really hope that everything turns out okay for you. Good luck!

 

[manwon]

Hi folks,

Normally I live in the buy/sell topic here, but need a few opinions and thought this might be a better place to post tonight.

I just received brand new cue I ordered from a builder known on these forums. I do not know if he is active here, and do not wish to feel like I am accusing him behind his back and will not mention a name. I paid a fair price. Not a bargain, not excessive. Fair, at least in my opinion. But I need a reality check.

Some of the workmanship is very good. Some surprises jumped out at me upon opening the package. I really do need an opinion of how much if any I am overreacting.

He are the issues in order of my judgement of severity.

This was made from a Titlist blank. Although many pictures were sent to me along the way, there was no picture nor mention that one point was damaged near the wrap end and was repaired. Three points are perfect. And of course this repair, though reasonably done if it was repairing my damaged cue, just jumps out to me and leaves me feeling perhaps a bit deceived. This is the worst of the problems.

Second, I specified a tip diameter for both shafts and it is close, but over a tad. But more, the taper seems different than any other shafts I have ever owned. Maybe they are conical as opposed to pro-taper? Should this have been discussed by the builder or should I bear the responsibility for not mentioning it. I just assumed... Would you have done the same?

And for lesser issues, the weight stamp was left on the forearm although no picture along the way showed this. So I expected it not to be there. I would have preferred it not there. Should that have been disclosed?

And last, the builders name is stamped into the sleeve. Bothers me less than any of the above, but I was surprised I was not asked if I wanted it there or not? Unreasonable expectation when ordering a cue to my spec?

There are a little more things such as I asked for tip pads and there are none.

But very seriously, am I out of line to be upset about any of the above? And if not, what would you do?

I have not shot with this. It might be wonderful. I also have not contacted the builder as I am using this post to take a breath and see if I am being unreasonable. Mostly about the repaired point. Lesser on the taper, etc. The last thing I want to do is trash a builders reputation or even cast any doubts if I should have had the forethought to specify taper, weight stamp removal, name. But would I be unreasonable if the point repair alone was enough to ask to return it?

What do you think?

Thanks.

Please post photo's of the damaged area!!!

 

[ShootingArts]

Hard to say

A repaired point that shows the repair is not quality work. However I have to ask is this a $300 cue or a $2000 cue? How much the cue cost and how bad the damage really is both have to be considered. Too, this came from a house cue blank hinting that the damage might have been in the original construction. Not too uncommon to find issues when you turn down an old house cue to make a custom out of it. The weight stamp showing is another issue that might not have been within the cuemaker's control. I would go over your old pictures he sent you during construction. Do they seem deliberately geared to mislead or not? I try to make sure a customer is well aware of anything I am not 100% happy with myself.

Pads missing is an oversight. If it is a major issue for you he should put them on, no charge and pay for the shipping both ways.

Taper, probably your fault if you weren't familiar with the taper he uses and didn't specify anything.

Tip diameter, need more info. Over a tad doesn't tell me anything. If it is a tenth of a millimeter or less you are probably being a little critical. If it is a quarter millimeter or more, I would be unhappy.

The builder's name on a cue is to be expected. Asking how and where a builder places his name is always a good idea if you don't know.

Too vague of information from you to help you much. One question is who supplied the blank?

Most of your issues seem to be related to a failure to communicate before having the stick built. Others may or may not be the builder's fault. The pads are the only thing I notice that seem to be clearly an error on the builder's part. Did you make your wishes known in writing by any chance? Always a good idea to at least send an e-mail so a builder has a list of what you wanted in front of him.

Hu

 

[rebop]

Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I have not hit a ball nor chalked and will sleep on it before calling the builder. Its a dissapointment right now, not much more. But still you know how you want to open up that new package and have it be just as you imagined rather than an unexpected repair.

I'll post what happens when I decide how to proceed.

 

[rebop]

I'll post a pic a later later tonight. It will be interesting to see what you all think.

 

[rebop]

Sorry the replies are not qouting the messages I am replying to. As to questions on cost: $1200 shipped. Cue maker supplied the blank. i got maybe a dozen pics from him along the way and none showed either the weight stamp or damaged point.

As to some of the comments above, I won't disagree. Just that my buying a cue to spec is unsual where selling one from a cuemaker should be a common occurence. that's why I think, in hindsight of course, he should have maybe asked a few questions that I did not anticipate. again, not casting nor accepting blame just yet. Trying to learn and maybe help others with a few questions to ask I did not think of.

Let me go shoot a pic or two.

 

[ScottW]

My first question is, have you contacted the cuemaker in question and brought these issues up with him?

 

[XxMerlinxX]

My first question is, have you contacted the cuemaker in question and brought these issues up with him?

I think he wanted 2nd opinions on whether he was over reacting, and he may have also needed time to calm down, before contacting the maker.

 

[rebop]

Pics

Not the best pictures I ever took, but wanted to get something up quickly. I think you can see two spearate repairs to this point in the green and the maple veneers. See what you think:

 

[rebop]

I think he wanted 2nd opinions on whether he was over reacting, and he may have also needed time to calm down, before contacting the maker.

Exactly right. Sometimes bouncing it off you folks will prevent me from over reacting and perhaps bringing up more than I rightfully should.

The point is the worst part. I'll live with the name and weight stamp. Can always have shafts retapered. This one I cannot do anything about.

 

[mosconiac]

I agree with merlin...the OP is asking honest questions and sharing his experience which we can all learn from. He has done so without exposing anyone...so far. The lesson...be very specific if you want specific results. Otherwise, you will get the cuemaker's preferences. I, for one, would have never thought about the weight stamp, so I learned from the OP's experience.

With that said, an obvious point repair is unacceptable. The other items were not discussed prior to construction...therefore live & learn.

 

[JDB]

With that said, an obvious point repair is unacceptable. The other items were not discussed prior to construction...therefore live & learn.

I agree; the blemish on the point is something that is unacceptable for any cue, custom or production.

The other issues noted are mostly communication and would not be a big deal to me. Although, I really would not expect the weight stamp on a custom cue...

 

[JohnPT]

The weight stamp is actually preferable to some. It is unfortunate you don't like it.

 

[manwon]

Not the best pictures I ever took, but wanted to get something up quickly. I think you can see two spearate repairs to this point in the green and the maple veneers. See what you think:

Thanks for the pictures I requested, if that problem with the veneering was not described, before shipment it is certainly unacceptable. I do a number of Brunswick 26 1/2 pre-titlist and Hoppe Titlist conversions and frankly I would not sell a cue with a flaw like that at full price. Further more if I sold it at all I would make sure the buyer saw the problem and understood that it was discounted because of the problem.
It just saves heart ache for the buyer and seller. When some one spends $1200 on a cue they do not expect problems that are undescribed like the one in the your photo.

However, the issue with the weight stamp is something that can not always be eliminated when converting these Antique cues. This is due to where the cue must be cut for the new joint, sometimes the diameter is already kinda small. But, it should also be noted by the seller before the cue is purchased. The name stamp or a signature is the Cue Makers right, and it serves two purposes, it advertises for the Cue Maker, and it allows future buyers to know what they are buying and who made the cue. The shaft tapers are in my opinion are the smallest issue that you have since they are over size and not under size. You can send them back to the Cue Maker or find a Competent repairman to do the work of re-tapering the shafts.

If you are not happy, you should certainly contact the cue maker and let him know what the problems you have are. Hopefully he will come to some form of resolution with you, by either giving you a refund or at least at a minimum a discount do to the damage.

Hope this helps

 

[JDB]

The weight stamp is actually preferable to some. It is unfortunate you don't like it.

I like it on house cues so that I know what the weight is; however, my custom would be to my specific weight, so I would prefer it not to be stamped on the butt.

 

[poolhustler]

The most important issue is the repair to the points. If the builder did not disclose the repairs to you, he should accept the cue back and refund your money.

All the other issues seem trivial.

Call the cue builder and discuss it with him.

Good luck,

Russ...

 

[rebop]

Thanks Craig. And all. Definitely helped me thinking this through and the reality is I will have to ask for a refund. I'll invite the builder here to see what I posted and the comments if he likes. And if not, I'll at least let you know how he replies. Hoipefully this will go easy, but my hunch is the fact this was not at all disclosed (and I have all the progress pics and most of the email exchanges) makes me think he hoped I either would not notice or would not be bothered. Perhaps note. Benefit of the doubt for now.

We shall see...

~Bob

 

[mullyman]

Hi folks,



This was made from a Titlist blank. Although many pictures were sent to me along the way, there was no picture nor mention that one point was damaged near the wrap end and was repaired. Three points are perfect. And of course this repair, though reasonably done if it was repairing my damaged cue, just jumps out to me and leaves me feeling perhaps a bit deceived. This is the worst of the problems.

After seeing the photos, you have a valid claim on that. I wouldn't settle for something like that, especially if I didn't know about it beforehand.

Second, I specified a tip diameter for both shafts and it is close, but over a tad. But more, the taper seems different than any other shafts I have ever owned. Maybe they are conical as opposed to pro-taper? Should this have been discussed by the builder or should I bear the responsibility for not mentioning it. I just assumed... Would you have done the same?

I've never mentioned the taper to a cue maker because I too assume that it's going to have a standard pro taper. But, with that said, it's your responsibility to know what kind of taper that cue maker uses. I wouldn't agree that you have a claim on this one. As for the tip diameter? How much is a "tad over"? I would say if it's just a "tad" as I think of what a "tad" is, then you're probably finding things to make it worse when in reality, it's just a "tad" over so it shouldn't be a problem.

And for lesser issues, the weight stamp was left on the forearm although no picture along the way showed this. So I expected it not to be there. I would have preferred it not there. Should that have been disclosed?

I'm taking your post as you never saw this cue face to face before he sent it to you. I'll agree that when he sent photos it probably would have been better if he had sent photos that had that weight stamp on it. How deep is it stamped in there? If it's pretty deep that's quite a bit of wood to have to take off of a shaft, especially if it's down near the joint like I'm suspecting. With another view of that, I think it sounds kind of cool having it there. But that is entirely up to you.

And last, the builders name is stamped into the sleeve. Bothers me less than any of the above, but I was surprised I was not asked if I wanted it there or not? Unreasonable expectation when ordering a cue to my spec?

Yeah, I can't give you any love on this one. A lot of people have different ideas on this so I'm just going to give mine, not that my thinking is the right way and everyone else is wrong, it's just my view. I may order a cue to my specs but in the end, that is his cue. His work of art. He deserves to be able to stamp his name on it. Would you buy a Picasso without a signature? That's just how I feel. *BUT* I'm also one of the people that is totally against a maker signing his cue with a marker, or something like that, when he has totally shitty handwriting. That can really really really make a beautiful cue into an eyesore. CUE MAKERS: If you have poor penmanship, please, create a logo or use something to etch your name into the butt cap.

There are a little more things such as I asked for tip pads and there are none.

Yeah, I'd make a complaint on this one. When he quoted you a price he probably figured the price of tip pads into it.

But very seriously, am I out of line to be upset about any of the above? And if not, what would you do?[

Yes on some no on others. You have enough to be able to go back to him and say something and ask for a refund or repairs with no extra charges, not even shipping. Then again, if you piss him off he may take the cue and keep it until the end of time. Good luck with this.

I also have not contacted the builder as I am using this post to take a breath and see if I am being unreasonable.

Yeah, not very sneaky considering he probably knows your user name. If he sees this 2+2 still equals 4. You probably should have gone to him first. You never know how he might take something like this.
MULLY

 

[rebop]

A lot to respond to, but I'll be brief.

I was not trying to be sneaky and I have now emailed, sent pics, asked for a refund and pointed him here. Nothing to hide. Really did want opinions as I got a bit emotional with the let down of the damaged point.

I was not trying to pad the list to make it more substantial, either. I think I clearly said the two biggest issues were the repair and taper. The stamp was a surprise as it was not in any picture. But then again, I think its on the same side as the point repair, so maybe... Again with benefit of the doubt, he may have never thought to ask or that I might prefer it without if it were possible and the pics were all on the other side of the cue by luck of the draw. I'm trying to be very reasonable and non accusatory.

The signature was a suprise as well and I am more than willing to agree with the consensus. In my mind, if I am buying a cue from a maker that is made, I would expect it to be as he saw fit. When ordering from a blank, I would have thought I might have been asked. Same with a taper being not, or appearing not to be, pro taper. I would think there would be a mention or a question posed. I've learned from this.

And no, I never saw this cue face to face until it arrived today in the mail. Only about a dozen pictures starting with the first of the original one piece and then progess as it developed.

And, to be fair, the cue is well finished. He made the butt very close to the pictures I sent of a butt design I liked. It is front balanced as requested and right on the desired weight without a weight bolt. Wrapped in Cortland. A lot to like. But the repair will likely, or hopefully, "would have" bugged me forever.

Anyway, we hope for the best when he wakes tomorrow and checks his email and the thread.