New cue received and not as expected- Need opinions please

Ok, please do not hijack this thread to other things. Please?

And Eddie, thanks so much for that offer. Let's see what happens when I hear back.

The discussion of price I paid is really a different discussion. To be totally correct, I agreed on $1175 shipped. He did not have the tips I wanted to try, so I sent two Kamui's from my own stash. Upon shipment readied, I was asked to split the Paypal charges which surprised me, but I was anxious for the cue after 3 months and I did. So I have over $1200 into this and from what I see, it might be on the high end of Titlist conversions, but has two shafts, ivory ferrules, ivory Hoppe ring, butt to my choice of design, Cortland wrap and reasonably front balanced as requested.

After this is resolved, I promise a few things:

1. The entire story including another surprise that maybe and maybe not should have been a topic for discussion during the planning/ building stages of this cue.

2. A discussion of pricing for Titlist conversions.

3. And, if I am refunded, a request for another builder to make me a cue.

At this point, after going back through all the pictures and emails, I am feeling unquestionably deceived. It is impossible he did not know about this, he never sent a picture showing this point, and never mentioned it. How could it be anything other than intentional?

A good point about the weekend above. I will wait until Tuesday first thing to call.

I have a hard time imagining that anything less than a return and refund will put this to rest. And forget everything else but the veneers. At this point this is all that matters. When I have another built, I will know to ask many more questions and be more specific. but this one issue was out of my control until I saw the finished cue.

~Bob
 
rebop said:
Upon shipment readied, I was asked to split the Paypal charges


CHEESY! Should have been up front.

BUT...if you used paypal, and used a credit card to fund it...keep in mind that you can most likely file a complaint with your cc company and get a chargeback.

paypal won't help you a damn bit. They don't cover "not as described"
 
WheatCues said:
I can understand that !!!

But where does the 1200.00 price come in to play for a conversion when brunswick hoppe's don't have a high resale value ????


- Eddie Wheat

Eddie, have you priced Brunswick 26 1/2 pre-titlist and Willie Hoppe Titlists cues? I buy large quantities of them, when they arrive I separate them according to being straight, intact original labels, and over all condition. Cues completely intact with good original labels, straight, and after a cleaning, waxing and re-tipping I sell them for around $500 to $800 to collectors depending upon the wood and Label on the cue, and this is unconverted. For these cues in excellent condition restored my prices are very good.

The cues that are missing labels, or have warp shafts or other issues that are unsuitable for restoration are converted. My conversions start at $800 and go up to $1400, depending upon the wood in the cue, it's figure and the other materials used, I also include two shafts with these conversions. Now, this I can certainly say, I am not known as a Cue Maker in any circles. However, I have no problem selling my conversions, in fact I am booked throughout the rest of this year locally.

So I suspect if an unknown like myself can get what I get for my conversions, $1200 from a known cue maker is on the lower end of the scale.

Have a great day Eddie!!
 
Paid from my bank account, alas.

Possible mail fraud or Small Claims Court I imagine, but let's hope no need to consider either.
 
JoeyInCali said:
The blanks/housecues go for around $400 and it's a roll of a dice if you turn them.
You have to realize these cues were glued decades ago. What kind of glue did they have then?
If you turn the joint smaller than .860 and the bottom smaller than 1.270, who knows if the veneers would hold?
That's why a lot of makers won't touch them.

Joey, I buy the Blanks for $190 to $300 depending upon the woods and condition. I buy more of the Brunswick 26 1/2 cues than I buy Titlists cues, because during the time frame from around 1915 until around 1935, cues produced by Brunswick are larger in diameter. Most of the cues I convert are around .900 to .930 where they are cut and 1.300 to 1.450 at the cues butt. These sizes are hard to locate in the Willie Hoppe Titlist cues, because Brunswick began making cues smaller in diameter after 1940.

Have a good day Joey
 
If the "repair" job was not previously disclosed before delivery, then I, too, would demand a full refund, including Paypal fees and the shipping of the cue back to the "cuemaker".

Based on the pictures you provided, that kind of veneer work is SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE for a custom cue build at a price tag of $1200. In my opinion, if the cuemaker does not provide a full refund and accept the cue back, then his cuemaking days are over......because, guaranteed, this cue will show up on the "For Sale" section of this lovely forum with large high resolution pictures to accompany the ad.....cuemaker sigs and all.....

The cuemaker must do the right thing and provide a full refund.
 
manwon said:
Eddie, have you priced Brunswick 26 1/2 pre-titlist and Willie Hoppe Titlists cues? I buy large quantities of them, when they arrive I separate them according to being straight, intact original labels, and over all condition. Cues completely intact with good original labels, straight, and after a cleaning, waxing and re-tipping I sell them for around $500 to $800 to collectors depending upon the wood and Label on the cue, and this is unconverted. For these cues in excellent condition restored my prices are very good.

The cues that are missing labels, or have warp shafts or other issues that are unsuitable for restoration are converted. My conversions start at $800 and go up to $1400, depending upon the wood in the cue, it's figure and the other materials used, I also include two shafts with these conversions. Now, this I can certainly say, I am not known as a Cue Maker in any circles. However, I have no problem selling my conversions, in fact I am booked throughout the rest of this year locally.

So I suspect if an unknown like myself can get what I get for my conversions, $1200 from a known cue maker is on the lower end of the scale.

Have a great day Eddie!!

I Gotcha.... I didn't even notice the "titelist" model I thought this was the bruswick signature Hoppe !

Sorry !


- Eddie
 
Fatboy said:
I had a similar thing happen to me once, I was pissed, I ordered 2 shafts for a very expensive cue 5 figure expensive, I sent in one shaft and asked to make the taper close as possible to the shaft I sent-I know its impossible to duplicate it. What I sent in was 12.8mm shaft what I got back was 13.35mm shafts with no taper to speak of, they were a few cuts away from being playable shafts, I'm not a cue maker but I know enough to know you cant cut down shafts to fast, I'm sick about what I spent for them, they are useless logs. The were good wood that at some point would have been great shafts, its like having raw turkey at Thanksgiving. No it wasnt Barry.


My point is I understand how you feel, when you give a cuemaker alot of time to do it right and they dont, or not tell you if there is a problem, We all make mistakes and i'm a forgiving guy but in my case when I called and was told "thats the best I could do" I was done right there, I'm done with the guy, and believe me he cost himself alot of biz(he probably dosent care) it was over a year ago and I wont say who-its not that big of a deal. I hope your thing works out for you.


In your case I would try and find a solution.

I've had similar problems in the past, fatboy. After giving a cuemaker several opportunities to make things right, and still receive a cue that shouldn't ever have gone out the door, I came to a point where I just felt that he did as good as he could do, and that was that, no big deal but no more business either. I do think that the cuemaker in question here, though, clearly knew that the veneer was damaged and sent it out in hopes it wouldn't be questioned. If there's some deception involved, I'd certainly call him on it and probably let other AZr's know who to avoid.
 
WheatCues said:
Why in the hell would someone stamp the weight on the butt for everyone to see ???

Doesn't that seem a little tacky and low end mass production style ????

Are there any custom cuemakers on here other than the man in question that does this, And if so... why ????

I'm very intrigued......



Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

It's a Titlist/Hoppe butt............

Dale
 
WheatCues said:
I Gotcha.... I didn't even notice the "titelist" model I thought this was the bruswick signature Hoppe !

Sorry !


- Eddie

Hoppe Pro - those are the ones that come apart in the middle -
also had the weight stamp on the forearm.

Dale
 
Smorgass Bored said:
You've been a cuemaker for 15 years and you don't know the answers to your simplistic questions ? You just must be trolling. (as usual)
Doug
(waiting for Eddie to turn this thread around to HIM and his cues)

Good catch Doug - yet another thread is morphed into
an Eddiemercial

BTW - did the BIG fish eat ALL the little fish?

Dale
 
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I once picked up 2 Hoppe Titlist about a year and a half ago from a guy for $20,my friend asked why I bought them and they were junk.I told my friend lets go for a ride to the poolhall for the tournament and I will sell them for $250,he was just laughing saying "Yeah right!".We go to the poolhall and within an hour or so a cue collector who likes old Palmers and Titlist was happy to pay $250 for them because as I know and he knows they were worth that a piece so he got to for one and I made 12.5 times my money. :D
I wish I could get more of them for 2 for $20.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I once picked up 2 Hoppe Titlist about a year and a half ago from a guy for $20,my friend asked why I bought them and they were junk.I told my friend lets go for a ride to the poolhall for the tournament and I will sell them for $250,he was just laughing saying "Yeah right!".We go to the poolhall and within an hour or so a cue collector who likes old Palmers and Titlist was happy to pay $250 for them because as I know and he knows they were worth that a piece so he got to for one and I made 12.5 times my money. :D
I wish I could get more of them for 2 for $20.



that happened to me about 4 years ago a guy walks in with an old cue and i bought it for 100.00 he thought i was nuts......
but i bought a herman rambo
scott
 
I have several people PM'ing me asking who the maker is. As I mentioned, even though I think this was wrong in not disclosing the repaired veneers, I think he deserves one chance to reply to me before being outted. And even though it seems he may be away for the weekend, I will wait until Tuesday to have my email answered and call him if it is not Tuesday morning.

Then I'll let you know how it goes and likely post the maker unless something unexpected happens.
 
8-Baller said:
If the "repair" job was not previously disclosed before delivery, then I, too, would demand a full refund, including Paypal fees and the shipping of the cue back to the "cuemaker".

Based on the pictures you provided, that kind of veneer work is SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE for a custom cue build at a price tag of $1200. In my opinion, if the cuemaker does not provide a full refund and accept the cue back, then his cuemaking days are over......because, guaranteed, this cue will show up on the "For Sale" section of this lovely forum with large high resolution pictures to accompany the ad.....cuemaker sigs and all.....

The cuemaker must do the right thing and provide a full refund.

What he said. First off, I wouldn't have paid $1200 for that cue, veneer or no veneer, but the fact of the sloppy obvious work on it should be a complete refund including shipping costs.
 
WheatCues said:
I'll make you a deal just to show everyone what kind of person I really am !!!

I will correct all the mistakes and repair the veneers in the points almost perfectly and gear the cue up 100% exactly to your specs FREE OF CHARGE !!!

All I ask is that you cover the shipping both ways.... this kind of behaivor is what gives reputable cuemakers bad names and makes it even more difficult for new guys to break into the market !

I guarantee ALL my work 100% and specialize in restorations I have over 18yrs in the business and I will be more than happy to do this for positive publicity and to show everyone that there are other cuemakers who will go out of thier way to help someone under special circumstances without having to get paid for it !!!

Just let me know if he doesn't honor his work and I WILL make it right for you !!!




Sincerely, Eddie Wheat 321-631-1827



Either way whatever model it is... I run accross these 2-piece brunswick "willie hoppe" signature cues in pawnshops sometimes and they look terrible... most are in moderate to poor condition and I don't even mess with them at all.... I even gave one away to a friend of mine who owns a poolroom that qnother customer gave to me... I had zero idea there was even a market for them !!!!

Thanks for the insight... I will definitely keep an eye out for them in the future !

REBOP: the above offer has no expiration, so you don't have to worry about being stuck... one way or the other you will have what you paid for without worring about being stuck with it as is !




Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
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WheatCues said:
Either way whatever model it is... I run accross these 2-piece brunswick "willie hoppe" signature cues in pawnshops sometimes and they look terrible... most are in moderate to poor condition and I don't even mess with them at all.... I even gave one away to a friend of mine who owns a poolroom that qnother customer gave to me... I had zero idea there was even a market for them !!!!

Thanks for the insight... I will definitely keep an eye out for them in the future !

REBOP: the above offer has no expiration, so you don't have to worry about being stuck... one way or the other you will have what you paid for without worring about being stuck with it as is !




Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

Eddie the signature cues you are talking about were not even made in the USA. These cues were produced when production of Brunswick cues was moved to China around 1970. I have also seen the cues in question and they totally suck, the cues have Wille Hoppe Signature cue written in Gold letters on the butt near the bumper.

The only thing they are good for is Chop Sticks!!!!!!!:D
 
Well, for those of you who guessed, you guessed correctly. This was made by Jerry Rauenzahn. And, as we suspected, he was offf camping for the weekend and just returned. Amazingly, we just talked for the first time. All else on this cue was done through email. Perhaps talking would have helped along the way, but I am so used to emai, pictures, lists that it honestly did not cross my mind.

So, first, the good news. Jerry is a stand-up guy and the funds have already been sent back to me through PayPal. I will ship the cue back to him on Wednesday. He's standing behind his work and hard to ask for much more than that.

Jerry feels that Titlists are hard to do and you never know what you will find as you turn them down from a blank. In this case there was a void and he feels he did his best on it. We both agree he should have let me know so I could have made a decision based on what he found as he was building it. So perhaps we both learned something along the way on this.

So, thanks for all that offered up suggestions, thoughts and advice. And Eddie for that amazingly generous offer. I've learned you can't ask too many questions and to make no assumptions when having a cue built. My next experience will go differently, I'm sure.

~Bob
 
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