New cushions for Gold Crown 4. HELP!

AlexandruM said:
Here are the places in Europe where you can ask if they can bring you the Brunswick Superspeed Rubber cushion:
1) https://www.billiard-pro.cz/en/obch...peed-billiard-rubber-cushion-pool-k55-121-cm/
2) http://gamescentre.pl/pl/zestaw_bund_gumowych_brunswick_superspeed-p-1215.html

Artemis K-55 rubber is quite expensive up to 380 Euro without delivery.

Is the profile on Gold Crown 3,4 the same, I mean is it K-55?
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Thanks for the links! I think you saved me a few £ :) As for the pocket facings, I know people have said to get 60 durometer but so far the ones I have seen haven't specified what durometer or it is 75. How would the difference of 15 effect play? Less bouncy or more bouncy? I will keep looking though! Thanks again for the links :)
 
Sean Hallett said:
Thanks for the links! I think you saved me a few £ :) As for the pocket facings, I know people have said to get 60 durometer but so far the ones I have seen haven't specified what durometer or it is 75. How would the difference of 15 effect play? Less bouncy or more bouncy? I will keep looking though! Thanks again for the links :)
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I probably shouldn't post with an assumption, but durometer readings measure material hardness. The higher the reading, the harder the material. So with that, I would assume a neoprene facing with a durometer measurement of 60 would be more springy (less dead), than the ones with a measurement of 75.
 
peter_gunn said:
I will go with klemach p59 rubber.
I install them on few dynamic II and dynamic III tables, also on two brunswick metro tables.
Albin Ouchan was on vacation in my country for 15 days with his sister and I put that brunswick metro table with klemach rails for them to practice while they were there.
They were quite pleased with the way table played

Sent from my Mi A2 Lite using Tapatalk
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I've also got Klematch P59 cushions on our 10-foot Gabriel's pool table - they play awesome!
 
Another vote for superspeed. I’ve played on GC4’s that were changed out to “I believe” the diamond black and it ruined the table, IMO.

What will the shipping and duty be?
 
ChrisinNC said:
I've also got Klematch P59 cushions on our 10-foot Gabriel's pool table - they play awesome!
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I installed the Klematch P59 cushions on one 9ft Diamond Professional at the Bank Shot in Louisville, KY....and had to replace them less than a month later, two hall of fame bank players didn't like the way they banked!!
 
realkingcobra said:
So how was the table ruined? Was it the cushions, or the work performed?
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Background: The room is Drexeline Billiards in Philly. It is a players room through and through. The tables are all GC4's, bought brand new in 2001 or 2002. The owner is a top player, and puts the best equipment, Simonis, centennial balls, etc, and replaces the cloth every 6 months.

A ton of the players play one pocket, and a 2 of the tables were always triple shimmed to accommodate them. About 4 years ago, the owner gave the one hole players a treat, by getting rid of the shims, and having 4 of the tables made with small pockets by extending the rails. I came the day after the cushions were changed, and the owner was very proud and said diamond cushions were installed. I believe the cheaper ones, not the Artemis, because the nose looks like a normal radius, but I never asked him.

Those 4 tables when the cushion was brand new 4 years ago react noticeably faster than the rest of the tables in the room. Fast forward to the present, with all tables getting new cloth every 6 months, and those 4 tables still react noticeably faster off of the rail.

As a side note, the rest of the tables (there are 18 GC4's), all play great. The cushions have held up great in 18 years.

Now, the 4 tables with the diamond cushions don't play bad, but they play noticeably different. IMO, the standard super speed cushion plays better. Most of the other players also think the same in that room. Conversely, there are also a few players that like the faster cushions better.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Background: The room is Drexeline Billiards in Philly. It is a players room through and through. The tables are all GC4's, bought brand new in 2001 or 2002. The owner is a top player, and puts the best equipment, Simonis, centennial balls, etc, and replaces the cloth every 6 months.

A ton of the players play one pocket, and a 2 of the tables were always triple shimmed to accommodate them. About 4 years ago, the owner gave the one hole players a treat, by getting rid of the shims, and having 4 of the tables made with small pockets by extending the rails. I came the day after the cushions were changed, and the owner was very proud and said diamond cushions were installed. I believe the cheaper ones, not the Artemis, because the nose looks like a normal radius, but I never asked him.

Those 4 tables when the cushion was brand new 4 years ago react noticeably faster than the rest of the tables in the room. Fast forward to the present, with all tables getting new cloth every 6 months, and those 4 tables still react noticeably faster off of the rail.

As a side note, the rest of the tables (there are 18 GC4's), all play great. The cushions have held up great in 18 years.

Now, the 4 tables with the diamond cushions don't play bad, but they play noticeably different. IMO, the standard super speed cushion plays better. Most of the other players also think the same in that room. Conversely, there are also a few players that like the faster cushions better.
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Well, here's the thing no one seems to understand. Unless you replace like cushions with like cushions, two different makers of cushions are.not going to play the same, which is where specific calibrations come into play, of which almost no one does because they don't know how, and that's part of the problem in this industry. Installers replace things, because that's what they know how to do for the most part, so the question is, why didn't the owner buy superspeed cushions in the first place, or hire someone that knows how to calibrate the sub-rails? Just for information purposes, GC4 sub-rails are also over 1 11/16" thick, and don't have matching miter angles on both sides of the corner pockets, and the side pockets are not centered either....did you happen to notice any of those problems on any of the 4's there?
 
realkingcobra said:
Well, here's the thing no one seems to understand. Unless you replace like cushions with like cushions, two different makers of cushions are.not going to play the same, which is where specific calibrations come into play, of which almost no one does because they don't know how, and that's part of the problem in this industry. Installers replace things, because that's what they know how to do for the most part, so the question is, why didn't the owner buy superspeed cushions in the first place, or hire someone that knows how to calibrate the sub-rails? Just for information purposes, GC4 sub-rails are also over 1 11/16" thick, and don't have matching miter angles on both sides of the corner pockets, and the side pockets are not centered either....did you happen to notice any of those problems on any of the 4's there?
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I don't know why the owner chose Diamond cushions for the GC4's. Maybe they are cheaper? (I'm guessing, IDK the price). Maybe he thought they were better.

I have played on basically nothing but GC's except once in a blue moon play on a Diamond. I personally think you are exaggerating how far off the pockets on a GC are from being symmetrical. I also have a GC4 in my home, and the pockets look symmetrical to me.
 
Anyway not looking for an argument, I just wanted to relay my opinion of several GC4's that had their cushions replaced with something other than OEM Superspeeds. The tables play ok, but not as well as when they were stock. That is exactly what the OP was asking about.
 
realkingcobra said:
I installed the Klematch P59 cushions on one 9ft Diamond Professional at the Bank Shot in Louisville, KY....and had to replace them less than a month later, two hall of fame bank players didn't like the way they banked!!
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Did YOU like how they play?

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peter_gunn said:
Did YOU like how they play?

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No, but I knew that before I even installed them, reason being, the Klematch P59 cushions are extremely high density. Reason for that is because that high density is needed for the bigger billiards balls, and because in 3C every shot is a bank, you need repeatability, whether the cue ball is shot hard, or soft, it needs to stay on the same path. In pocket pool, banks are not only shot on normal angles, balls are also shot hard to cause them to shorten up, or shot soft to lengthen the banks. That ability to change the path of a banked ball comes by way of English transfer from the cue ball to the object ball, as well as compressing the object ball into the cushion, therefore altering it's natural rebound angle. Extremely high density cushions don't allow for those shots, because the cushions won't compress. Those cushions are so hard, even stretching the cloth over the nose of the cushions with a pair of plyers and stapling it in place.....won't leave a dimple in the nose of the cushions like pool cushions will dimple, that's how hard they are.
 
realkingcobra said:
No, but I knew that before I even installed them, reason being, the Klematch P59 cushions are extremely high density. Reason for that is because that high density is needed for the bigger billiards balls, and because in 3C every shot is a bank, you need repeatability, whether the cue ball is shot hard, or soft, it needs to stay on the same path. In pocket pool, banks are not only shot on normal angles, balls are also shot hard to cause them to shorten up, or shot soft to lengthen the banks. That ability to change the path of a banked ball comes by way of English transfer from the cue ball to the object ball, as well as compressing the object ball into the cushion, therefore altering it's natural rebound angle. Extremely high density cushions don't allow for those shots, because the cushions won't compress. Those cushions are so hard, even stretching the cloth over the nose of the cushions with a pair of plyers and stapling it in place.....won't leave a dimple in the nose of the cushions like pool cushions will dimple, that's how hard they are.
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Rasson is putting them on the Victory 2 tables. Sounds like they are gonna make it worse and not better!

Trent from Toledo
 
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