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conetip said:
If you talk to taig, they recommend a breakin with the slide assembly with a fine abrasive to lap all the parts together. When done properly as per their instructions,they work very well indeed. I feel that the gib adjustment screws are too course for easy adjustment, but with care can be acheived. It is just a very small movement on the end of the allen key between sliding and being tight.
It does take time to lap in the slides, but is well worth it.If it is tight in an area , it will need more lapping in that part. 8/10,000 inch error in the extrusion is enough to cause it to bind. By their nature, extrusions are only as good as the die correctors and the people running the press.Over a 1m length is it not unusual to see as much as .002 inches of error in a 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick extrusion.
It has been mentioned before somewhere on the forum in the last 3 years.
I do not have to use a rack to slide the carriage back and forth, but a rack or leadscrew does give distance control.I am not saying to do turning without a control of the carriage, but it can be done when everything is correct.When I set a dti on my carriage against a test bar, the movement in the carriage from end to end is set to about .01mm
With this amount of clearance it slide very well with no issues. Wood dust is more of a problem in the cause of a slide binding due to the fact that the taig type setup does not have wipers front and back on the carriage.A vacumm cleaner fixes that for the most part.
Another issue is having the lathe correctly leveled and mounted. Some need to be slightly twisted to get everything to zero, others don't. The twist may only be .25mm (.010 inches), but it all makes a difference.
There is more to setting a lathe than most give it credit, again there have been some great posts explaining how to do this in the forum.
By the way, the lathe needs to be leveled and properly set before you start the lapping process, it is in the taig instructions somewhere.
I don't like seeing people taking shots at others that are helping the industry.
Issues should be resolved off the forum or in PM to others that may be able to help.
Sometimes things just don't work even brand new, like the new computer at work last week. Tons of problems with it. Turns out it had a bad power supply and a bad cooling fan assembly.It was not a cheap machine from some unknown assembler.All the parts are well known in the industry to be very good with a very high reliablity.
End of rant.
Neil
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That's Ironic I just had the replace the PSU in one of My PC's last week also. The bearings in the fan had been going bad, and making noise, and I was able to keep It going for a while by lubing them periodically, but It finally went out, fried the supply, and the PC would not power up. Luckily I had another one in a parts PC that is getting me by until I can order a new one. had It back up and running in about 15 minutes.

Lapping the ways is a good point, I made the mistake of not doing that when I first got My little milling machine. It locked up, and I stripped the brass lead nut trying to get It free.
 
Just a couple of comments:

It doesn't have to be something hard to jam up the carriage - the little shards of leather from shaping a tip will do the same - happily, they won't scar the ways.

I contacted Todd not too long ago asking if he had a steel lathe bed and his answer was, "Nope" - so he's seen the error of his ways (pun intended:)) and won't go that route any more.

Yes, you need to lap in your ways/lathe bed.

Overall a good discussion - I feel badly for SniperShot though - but take Bassell up on his offers and maybe you can get to a happier place.

My 2 cents

Gary
 
ChampionsRepair said:
It sounds like you still haven't followed the instructions for lapping in your lathe that I provided a link to in your other thread. Which in the end means you have done nothing to correct your problem. If it is considered necessary on a precision ground steel bed that is less than 16" long, why would it not be necessary on a longer bed that is extruded aluminum and far less precise. Answer: It is even more important to do it!

Until you go buy a can of Bon Ami and some 3 in 1 oil then move your carriage back and forth 200+ times while making adjustments to the gib screws at intervals, the only person to blame about the operation of your lathe is yourself. Now go lap your lathe bed in.

The link again: http://www.cartertools.com/setup.html
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I looked at that link and I know you are correct about needing to lap it in, but the main issues are the way the carriage fits on the bed. Like I said in a previous post, there's quite a bit of slop. I've had two tool/die makers with a combined 80+ years experience running lathes, mills, and any other kind of precise equipment look at my lathe and they both thought it was not made right. They have forgotten more than most people will ever know, and if they thought lapping it in would solve the issue, they would have said so. Im not arguing with you, and I appreciate your advice, but I have went and got help from people far smarter than me because I knew I was inexperienced. Im not just out to bust someones balls man, I was point blank bullshitted into buying a lathe with severely known flaws. And to make matters worse, Bassel just sold a lathe nearly identical to the one I bought for $1200 to someone on here for like $800. I wish I would have just asked for a refund right off the bat, but after talking to Bassel, he reassured me he was going to fix the issues, including the motor controller. I've been patiently waiting for months now, but my patience is gone, much like those who are still waiting on their sanding mandrels.

Joe
 
customcuelathe said:
Just hold on a minute, what Joe stated is not entirely true/clear, I never said there was a flow in my design, I just clearly states what everyone else did, the taig carraige if not adjusted perfectly will bind, and when I said I was working on a solution, I didn't mean just to fix his lathe, I meant waste have a new carriage than anyone with a taig style bed can use and not worry about binding.
And Joe I know I told you I will swap yours for free, and have you to test it, but unfortunately I couldn't make it, in the time frame you gave me, I had other orders and Vegas trips that were booked already.
Dispute all the negative feedback you have been posting, I would still swap the carriage for you for free. But you need to be patient with me, I am only one person, I just finished the first prototype yesterday and will send it out to get 10 samples made, and as for being out $50, it's me for not getting the controller back
It cost $7.64 to ship that controller priority mail
If that was the reason,, I would have paypaled you that money.

For the record
The aluminum dovetail I use was based on the taig dovetail they produce for Hightower 100% identical drawing only extruded in a different extrusion house and the H-channel is my own design.
I have put lots of thoughts into the carriage binding, and it's mainly due to having both bed and carriage made out of aluminum mainly.
Just to be clear again I never stated that there was a design flow after receiving the money from Joe, I only said that the carriage binding is a known issue with all taig based cue lathes. As for the brass spur gear. You have to make sure it does not move in and out, and that is accomplished by locking the dowel sleeve right after the brass gear. There should be no more than 1/32" movement between the hand wheel and the carriage.
Ever lathe bed never ships if I can slide the carriage up and down the bed using my pinky finger.
Best regards


Regards
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Seriously man? You don't remember telling me on the phone that the design of the carriage was flawed because the handwheel was too far back? I remember it vividly. Also, I never gave you any kind of time frame for a new carriage. He'll, I've been waiting months for you to resolve these things. II was waiting patiently on your new design and the next thing I know, you back peddled and sent me a little piece of delrin instead. The $50 was what I wasted on upgrading to a 1/2hp motor, which you said you were going to change. The reason I didn't ship your old controller back was because YOU told me to wait and send it back after you sent me my new smaller 1/3hp headstock and controller, remember? I remember it clearly.

Joe
 
qbilder said:
Well now we're hearing the other side of the story. If the dude knew about a flaw in design and still sold them without disclosing the info about the flaws, then it's a raw deal no matter how you shake it. I understand what you are talking about. I have a steel bed from Todd that is too narrow for taig carriages, so the carriage is too big & the slop causes binding no matter what. Doesn't really matter to me because it's only used for a sanding/finishing lathe & has no carriage. But I am aware of what you are describing. I was under the impression that Bassel's beds were Taig, and only mounted on different base. I'm not that aware of his stuff so it's easy that I could be unclear. I had no idea he was manufacturing the bed itself.

Like I said in the beginning regarding Brianna and then Bassel, a machine must be thoroughly tested & abused to reveal flaws BEFORE marketing. Would be best if it could be done by a cue maker. I even explained this to Bassel via phone conversation. A knowledgeable, well established & experienced cue maker needs to work with these machines for a period of time so they can report to him the issues that need work (no i'm not interested, just suggested). I suggested he find a cuemaker near him & pay that cuemaker to use a machine & cut 100 or so shafts, build some basic cues, etc. to run it through it's paces. Apparently he didn't do that. No biggie, it was just friendly advice & doesn't concern me in the least. I thought he was a nice guy & I like the idea of somebody working toward advancing specialized cue equipment. But pretty quickly I caught the hint that that it wasn't nearly as passionate as it was hurry to start capitalizing.

People need to understand that Chris Hightower BUILDS CUES. He has for a couple decades. He knows what the lathe is supposed to do. He built himself a lathe, used it, and THEN when he realized he had a worthy machine, he marketed it. To his credit, he has altered & advanced the machines through the years. All these newer imitation machines are being produced by non-builders, and getting mods & 'upgrades' that are unproven, only theoretical. Guys are cashing in on wannabe cue makers with machines that have never been proven by real cue makers....or anybody for that matter. Point is, just because Hightower's machines are Taig based doesn't mean I can buy a bunch of Taig stuff & build a machines that works like his does, then add a couple of unproven gadgets & claim it's a better machine. I'd fail. Ask Joe Barringer about it. Love him or hate him, at least he had the sense to understand that making a cue worthy machine from Taig stuff wasn't as simple as it seemed, and he lost his ass in trying. And he admits such. At least he didn't market them anyway, knowing they didn't work. He had the idea a decade ago. If it was so easy, he'd be selling machines right now.

Anyway, i'm done with my soap box. Sorry you got duped, Snipershot. Bassel, like I advised before when you called, get your machines tested THOROUGHLY by EXPERIENCED cue makers before trying to market them, or this industry will tear you up. Looks like you are finding that out the hard way. Like I said, I will support anybody who is genuinely trying to advance specialized cue machines. But it's gotta be done right & not just a get rich quick scheme. A good product will sell itself. Junk will break you no matter how great a salesman you are. Tough lesson to learn.
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Eric
You have hit lots of good points, and many that are true, the guys that I have testing my cue building lathes are cue makers, but not well known, the point I want to make is that I am not building cue lathes to get rich, I make enough money at my day job as an engineer, couple of years ago, I decided to get into this mainly because I fascinated by cue and machining, it's not get rich scheme, cause I am not rich, I could have produced 100 repair lathes by now if I wanted, but instead, I have been working on new ideas and trying to design the perfect cue building lathe. If you noticed, I have not posted anything regarding cue building for the last 6 months until yesterday.
I have spoken to many well known cue makers and asked everyone of them, what is their idea of a perfect cue building lathe. And I have been working on creating that along with my owe theoretical calculation. Also there was one thing you told me, and it stuck with me, you said I quote" if you want to be successful in this business, you need to come out with something new, not a Hightower lookalike" and slowly but surely my products is looking less and less like Hightower's, and I am so pleases to announce that my next cue building lathe uses no taig parts at all.
Best Regards
 
snipershot said:
I looked at that link and I know you are correct about needing to lap it in, but the main issues are the way the carriage fits on the bed. Like I said in a previous post, there's quite a bit of slop. I've had two tool/die makers with a combined 80+ years experience running lathes, mills, and any other kind of precise equipment look at my lathe and they both thought it was not made right. They have forgotten more than most people will ever know, and if they thought lapping it in would solve the issue, they would have said so. Im not arguing with you, and I appreciate your advice, but I have went and got help from people far smarter than me because I knew I was inexperienced. Im not just out to bust someones balls man, I was point blank bullshitted into buying a lathe with severely known flaws. And to make matters worse, Bassel just sold a lathe nearly identical to the one I bought for $1200 to someone on here for like $800. I wish I would have just asked for a refund right off the bat, but after talking to Bassel, he reassured me he was going to fix the issues, including the motor controller. I've been patiently waiting for months now, but my patience is gone, much like those who are still waiting on their sanding mandrels.

Joe
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Joe,

If you tighten the gib adjustment screws are you able to lock the carriage in place on the bed? If yes, lap it in. I haven't purchased an assembled lathe directly from Bassel, but I have purchased dovetail from him and a used custom cue lathe from someone else. The dovetail and the carriage are identical to both of my Cuesmith lathes. As long as the dovetail was not torqued during assembly and the dovetail was mounted square to the channel, lapping in the lathe bed with the carriage will solve the problem.
 
R+d

Eric, I agree with you. I like Bassel too for the same reasons. But having customers do R+D is not OK.
R+D takes time and costs money, and it's not fair to pass that responsibility along to an unsuspecting customer.
Right too about having someone qualified do the R+D. Chris has a tremendous advantage here since he uses his own tools to build his own cues. Perhaps this is not an insurmountable advantage, but it is very, very strong.
Robin Snyder
 
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qbilder said:
Excuse my ignorance, but why would an aluminum dovetail with brass gibbs need to be lapped? The fit should be tested & tuned (if need be) by the manufacturer, and ready for use. The buyer should know how to tune the machine to his liking & know how to keep it in that condition. The gibbs should be able to be tightened enough to lock the carriage, or else they are useless as a tuning tool, and you are screwed when the wear goes to the point of too much slop. The beds are made of anodized aluminum, meaning they are surface hardened. I wouldn't recommend anybody using an abrasive to lap the bed. Chris Hightower sells lathes every day that don't have issues of the carriage locking up, nor requires sanding the bed down to get smooth movement. If Bassel's bed is made exactly like the bed that Taig supplies Hightower with, then it should work just as well. Not to mention, there's likely a copyright issue with exactly copying Taig's design. My guess is that Bassel's beds are not as precise as Taig's, and likely are not anodized after machining to harden, stiffen the surface. Anybody who knows metal working should realize raw aluminum on raw aluminum is begging for trouble. By anodizing the bed, it eliminates the grabby nature of aluminum to lock to itself.

But like he said, he's getting away from Taig style parts so maybe he'll do what's right & admit that the lathe he sold Snipershot is defective & offer to make it right, not just beat around the bush with offering band-aid remedies. I'd personally be pissed and requesting a return/refund so I could buy a proven machine. Bassel may be genuinely wanting to learn how to build better machines, but he's doing it on the pocket book of innocent buyers that believe his BS when he gives the sales pitch. Fact is he knows the machines aren't right but he's making money on them anyway. Eventually he may actually be producing a machine worthy of dependable cue work. But what's with all the people who were used to fund it & pay for him to learn? They're stuck with his useless experiments, his science projects. Why does that seem ethically incorrect to me? Inventors use their own money or get investors who know that they are gambling. That's how it works. An engineer should know the ropes. But it's not how this played out. So either the guy knew he'd be screwing folks, or else was so arrogant that he believed his work couldn't fail. Hey, I like Bassel. Nice dude & seems ambitious. But wrong is wrong.
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For some reason I was under the impression that these beds were steel. Guess I should have looked & read the posts better. After taking a better look I see now that They aren't. The Mill that I had issue with has steel ways, so that was a different situation. My deluxe with an anodized alloy bed on the other hand did not need lapping. It was ready to go out of the box. If It did not have that coating on It, then yes I can see It having binding issues with the alloy on alloy. It seems to me that not only does It make the bed more rigid, and less prone to wear then bare alloy, but It makes It smoother as well. Even so It still needs to be kept clean and lubed to maintain the smooth operation.

I am quite surprised at how much wear It can take considering what It's made from. I've used Mine pretty much non stop, for My main work repair, but also for building operations as well. For the most part It's been in use one way or another day in and day out since purchased new, and I've been pretty rough on It.
 
Ive had several of these lathes from both Bassel and hightower, they all bind in the beginning. Chris helped me on my very first lathe from him. You heve to work with them. That is the way it is. Have you keep your stuff clean too.

And i agree, the screws are too coarse for super find adjustment, but in the end with the proper adjustment they work, all of them, doesn't matter from hightower, Todd, or Bassel.

Learn you machine.
 
cbi1000 said:
Ive had several of these lathes from both Bassel and hightower, they all bind in the beginning. Chris helped me on my very first lathe from him. You heve to work with them. That is the way it is. Have you keep your stuff clean too.

And i agree, the screws are too coarse for super find adjustment, but in the end with the proper adjustment they work, all of them, doesn't matter from hightower, Todd, or Bassel.

Learn you machine.
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
As a good friend of mine who is a high level machinest says Quote" you must learn to domiante your machine.....every machine you walk up to you need to have the knowladge and experience to dominate it not just run it"....if you arn't there you need to learn before blaming the machine.....he is on here and maybe he will chim in
 
ComptonCustomCues said:
Alright people.....lets slow down....eric you too......I have bought parts from bassel and made my own lathes that were great....first and foremost taig makes steel beds....I have one....they only make 15 inch steel beds and are ground after the bed is attached to the u channel I think if I remember right......hightower is getting everything extruded just like anyone who wants aluminum dovetail....and the parts are taig based and yes the beds do require some break in.....delrin gibs are a better solution than most might think. I am going to say this and I might make enemy's but the op didn't know the first thing about lathes when he bought his lathe.....this was the same guy asking about drilling a straight hole.....now thats fine as I have had help from lots of people on here but to say he understood enough about his machine to set it up is a wrong assumption....and if he has a buddy that is a machinest I promised the guy laughed the first time he saw the lathe.....any machinest that is used to working with full sized machine lathes is going to think of these lathes as toys.....and going to think the accuracy poor.....now I mean no offense to the op but the carriage is the stock taig that everyone uses and I belive this machine could be set up alot better.....and if your comparing it to a metal lathe as I belive the op just bought one......FORGET IT.....your comparing apples and oranges......they wont work the same or feel the same....PERIOD. Eric would you send out a cue to replace one without getting the old one back.....would you trust the buyer knowing the crooks and scam artist out there????? Why would bassel send replacment parts without the old ones getting sent back.....he did that with the original supply box and the op didn't send back the original one....why get bit twice.....I don't mean to attack the op but I see this from a point of view of someone who has been scammed like this before.......I hope all parties can work it out but this thread was an example of the complete wrong way to handle it....expecialy from the ones not involved in the deal......that was aimed at you eric....if you have a problem with it call me....lets get it off this thread....my number is in my signature....And why in the world are shims being used in your lathe snipershot????? I know these machines well enough to have built three of them myself so?????I don't get it
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You are 100% correct about me knowing nothing about lathes when i got this one, i cant argue that at all. And im not picking a fight with you, but my problems drilling/boring a straight hole should be understandable considering my absolute ignorance, and thats why i asked for help. Im not too proud to swallow my pride and admit i dont know everything. As for comparing it to a metal lathe, well, thats not ever going to happen. I know the differences are drastic. You are also correct about my friend laughing at my toy lathe. With all that said though, it still doesnt change the fact that the lathe had serious issues before it shipped out, and whether he admits it here or not, i remember bassel admitting that in one of our first phone conversations. And like i said in a previous post, i didnt ship the original broken controller back because Bassel told me to wait and send it and my old headstock back after i got the new one so that i wouldnt have to go without my lathe. seriously man, what on earth would i want a broken controller for? Im the farthest thing from a scammer you will ever meet, but i have been scammed a couple times and still remember how i felt, but there is no way im ever going to scam Bassel.

Joe
 
ComptonCustomCues said:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
As a good friend of mine who is a high level machinest says Quote" you must learn to domiante your machine.....every machine you walk up to you need to have the knowladge and experience to dominate it not just run it"....if you arn't there you need to learn before blaming the machine.....he is on here and maybe he will chim in
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My ignorance is well documented, all you gotta do is look at some of the questions ive asked. Im not ashamed of it either. Nobody starts off knowing how to do it all. I know this, and thats why i went and got help from others that do have the knowledge. My friend (who is also on AZ) has a lathe he bought from Todd and he knows how his lathe is now, as well as when he first got it, and it didnt take him long to realize that something wasnt right with my machine. I cant dominate a broken machine man. Ive ran machines at work for 12 years now, and while i might be ignorant, im far from stupid. Most of the time anyways, lol.

Joe
 
ComptonCustomCues said:
I realize my wording might indicate that but I assure you I was not calling you a scammer....but bassel probably works with plenty of them.....we all do on az...so his proticol has to be them same with everyone.....and I do understand about the hole thing....I posted postive things in that thread because I was once there not to long ago.......I completly understand....Why though do you need to send the headstock back to change the motor???? And again what is the purpose of the shims?? All new dovetail made out of aluminum binds at first.....the delrin gibs are the way to go......I hope you two can get it worked out but this wasn't the right way.....you now have some outside opinions attacking bassel and saying he has done something unsavory. Phone calls are the way to go
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John i remember you posting some helpful stuff in my hole thread, so please dont think im attacking you, im just trying to make my point clear. Bassel wanted me to send back my headstock and replace it, it was his idea after the second controller started to malfunction. As for the shims, there was a rather large gap under the carriag and it was very sloppy which caused some binding issues. The brass gib on the back slides like butter, and after talking to Bassel he agreed that super gluing some very thin steel shim stock on the front gibb (which is aluminum and non-adjustable) might help get me by until his new carriage was ready. I dont hate the guy, im just pissed and frustrated that my machine dont work. If i hadnt have had severaly other people look at it and tell me it wasnt right, i would agree with you that its my inexprience, but thats not the case my friend.

Joe
 
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