New Install - what should a novice check/ask for?

[Linwood]

Thank you @Poolplaya9, for taking the time for a well reasoned argument. I'd like to think the smaller pockets would just make me try harder, but I'd also like to think I can dunk a basketball, and drive a golf ball 300 yards. :wink:

I'll take some solace in the idea it's more about not frustrating my friends.

I spend a lot of time around (not playing; photographing) sports like soccer, tennis, volleyball... they seem heavily regulated as to venue, exacting measurements, no vendor creativity in the size or weight of a basketball, or width of a rim. It's interesting Billiards, despite a lot of organized national and international competitive play, has matured without a similar level of rigor.

Imagine if Adidas decided it's soccer balls would be 2" larger, or Spaulding decided basketball goals should be slightly oval. Heck, a slight deflation in a football eclipsed wars and elections for a few weeks.

Not complaining, just wondering how pool came to escape the rather obsessive regulators that other sports endure/enjoy?

 

[gxman]

So what table are you looking at?

 

[Linwood]

So what table are you looking at?

Canada Billiards La Condo Stainless, 9'

A dining conversion was a requirement to get it into the house, which limited the choices dramatically, especially if you wanted it to actually be a decent dining table one could sit under. We won't even usually have the cues visible, they will go in the bench:

Storage bench

I've never eaten at a dining table with a bench, but was surprised when we started looking at furniture (not pool tables, but regular furniture stores) to find they were quite common. And convenient as it pushes under the table during play so you do not have to find a place for so many chairs.

Thanks to advice here, also Aramith centennial balls and simonis cloth (I would not have known either made a difference in play).

 

[mchnhed]

Far Out, Man

Simon is cloth has it written all over it that you can see with a black light.JC

Dude, I sold my lava lamp and black light at a garage sale 30 years ago.

Maybe Black Lights can save Pool?

 

[Linwood]

Dude, I sold my lava lamp and black light at a garage sale 30 years ago.

Along with your collection of comics including the #1 Superman and #1 Spider Man?

Never get rid of useless junk, just live long enough until it becomes valuable.

Now where's that Pet Rock....

 

[mchnhed]

Never get rid of useless junk, just live long enough until it becomes valuable.

Now where's that Pet Rock....

In 1975 the perfect pet was...a rock. DID IT MAKE MONEY? My Pet Rock sold for $3.95, and creator Gary Dahl unloaded more than five million of the igneous invertebrates in six months. He walked away with a cool $15 million. He only invested $40,000 buying river rocks from Brazil.

People love fads.....like TCOM.

 

[Sweatin']

5" for an amateur (and an advanced amateur, IMO)!!!! Anyway, unless you explicitly asked for tight pockets, or bought a Diamond brand pool table, which you did neither of, your table will most likely be like every other furniture table out there, and have 5" pockets.

I totally agree with iusedtoberich's advice. You rated yourself as the lowest quality player. Based on your knowledge level on several things it is clear to me that you have rated yourself accurately (every one of us started there, no worries). You do NOT want to consider 4.5" corner pockets, or really even 4.75" pockets either. Five inches is considered to be the standard sized pocket and has been for decades (although in the last 15 years or so many of the professional events have gone to using pockets from 4.5 to 4.75"). You would probably be happy even if the pockets were a little bigger than 5" but I suggest the standard 5" corner pockets as the happy medium for your skill level and the good news is that is almost certainly going to be what your table comes with unless you requested otherwise.

Here's why I make that recommendation. The 4.5" pockets (and even the 4.75" pockets but to a lesser extent) are going to brutal for your skill level. You are going to miss everything. It is going to be nothing but absolute frustration. If you can't make a few balls here and there it just isn't going to be fun--at all. And if it doesn't have some fun you will likely find yourself not playing on the table very much and before long you find that you own a really expensive laundry folding table. Just as important is that your friends, who sound like they are similarly skilled, are going to feel the same way. Pockets that are 4.5" or probably even 4.75" just aren't going to be fun for them and they probably are going to find it more irritating and frustrating than enjoyable. You may may start finding that they are suddenly somehow always "busy" with prior commitments every time you call them to come over for pool night. Go with 5" pockets.

In several years when you are much better (and yes it will likely take at least that before you have any desire for smaller pockets (and you at least as likely to never desire them) you can always have the pockets tightened up (made smaller) when it is time to recover the table with new felt so it is not like whatever choice you make is permanent just in case you do want to make a change down the road. If I am not mistaken it is also generally easier and cheaper to tighten up the pockets than to make them larger so if you have to err on one side or the other this is yet another reason to go with the bigger pockets (standard 5" corner pockets or slightly bigger) over ones that might be too small.

So guys, if one goes with these 5" corner pockets should he then go with 5.5" side pockets or will the table likely come with them by default? If not, then what size side pockets would be compatible with 5" corner pockets?

 

[mchnhed]

So guys, if one goes with these 5" corner pockets should he then go with 5.5" side pockets or will the table likely come with them by default? If not, then what size side pockets would be compatible with 5" corner pockets?

Side pockets will be 1/2" bigger than the corners.

I'd be more concerned in getting some decent cues to play with.
Do Not buy a "package". You can buy Cues, a rack, chaulk and wall rack separately online from e-bay at Billiards Heaven. http://stores.ebay.com/Billiards-Heaven or places like Mueller's.com, Pooldawgs.com, etc. ***Shop around, prices vary wildly.***

Buy a couple of Players cues, about $115 each but well worth it over the no name brands that home pool table salesmen will sell you.
The Players HXT cues are even nicer, $170.
I am sure many here on AzB will give you their choice for a good starters cue.
*****Keep It Civil and Under $200*****

Same with an Aramith Ball Set. No need to get the most expensive set BUT insist on the brand. Buy it new online. Much cheaper.

Have fun!

 

[JC]

I totally agree with iusedtoberich's advice. You rated yourself as the lowest quality player. Based on your knowledge level on several things it is clear to me that you have rated yourself accurately (every one of us started there, no worries). You do NOT want to consider 4.5" corner pockets, or really even 4.75" pockets either. Five inches is considered to be the standard sized pocket and has been for decades (although in the last 15 years or so many of the professional events have gone to using pockets from 4.5 to 4.75"). You would probably be happy even if the pockets were a little bigger than 5" but I suggest the standard 5" corner pockets as the happy medium for your skill level and the good news is that is almost certainly going to be what your table comes with unless you requested otherwise.

Here's why I make that recommendation. The 4.5" pockets (and even the 4.75" pockets but to a lesser extent) are going to brutal for your skill level. You are going to miss everything. It is going to be nothing but absolute frustration. If you can't make a few balls here and there it just isn't going to be fun--at all. And if it doesn't have some fun you will likely find yourself not playing on the table very much and before long you find that you own a really expensive laundry folding table. Just as important is that your friends, who sound like they are similarly skilled, are going to feel the same way. Pockets that are 4.5" or probably even 4.75" just aren't going to be fun for them and they probably are going to find it more irritating and frustrating than enjoyable. You may may start finding that they are suddenly somehow always "busy" with prior commitments every time you call them to come over for pool night. Go with 5" pockets.

In several years when you are much better (and yes it will likely take at least that before you have any desire for smaller pockets (and you at least as likely to never desire them) you can always have the pockets tightened up (made smaller) when it is time to recover the table with new felt so it is not like whatever choice you make is permanent just in case you do want to make a change down the road. If I am not mistaken it is also generally easier and cheaper to tighten up the pockets than to make them larger so if you have to err on one side or the other this is yet another reason to go with the bigger pockets (standard 5" corner pockets or slightly bigger) over ones that might be too small.

Some of those gold crown five inch pockets are brutal ball rejectors if you hit the point coming in. Don't let size alone fool you.

JC

 

[Scott Lee]

...what Walter said...and get it in writing beforehand! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Id get commitment that if any issues arise in the short termfuture, they will be rectified.

 

[Linwood]

Am told it will be delivered tomorrow. Stopped by the dealer and measured the pockets - 5". Maybe just slightly shy (used two balls at the mouth, but didn't have a caliper and the gap looked a bit shy of 1/2" but was really close.

So by end of the day tomorrow I should know.... well, probably not much at all. But I can start hitting balls around.

I found a guy locally who teaches, and tried contacting him via his web site, figuring a few lessons for my wife and I will go a long way, but no response.

I also did a lot of checking on local leagues and places to play to meet some people and maybe learn by watching. All but one (very small but quite friendly) place are horribly smokey; each to their own, but I would get sick in a half hour in the rest. A shame as one is a huge, active place. The small non-smoking bar was incredibly friendly, with regular saturday pool, so maybe can learn a bit there.

And of course online video and books. But nothing like participative learning.

General advice on how to dive in welcomed.

Also... someone mentioned include photos. Would people be interested in a series showing the whole construction, and if so here, or in some other forum or topic? Or is it kind of like baby pictures - of vastly more interest to the parents than the people they show them to?

 

[Sweatin']

I for one would love to see pics if you have the time.

 

[Jimmorrison]

Pics would be great, especially since you are getting a somewhat unique table.

 

[Linwood]

Arggg... I will post, but they called and are running behind so now it's Thursday.

Time really goes a lot slower when you're waiting for the delivery truck to arrive.

 

[Poolplaya9]

I also did a lot of checking on local leagues and places to play to meet some people and maybe learn by watching. All but one (very small but quite friendly) place are horribly smokey; each to their own, but I would get sick in a half hour in the rest. A shame as one is a huge, active place. The small non-smoking bar was incredibly friendly, with regular saturday pool, so maybe can learn a bit there.

And of course online video and books. But nothing like participative learning.

General advice on how to dive in welcomed.

One could go on and on and on about how to dive in, what to learn, and how. I think the answer can actually be kept relatively short by mentioning just these few things though.

First, there is a LOT of misinformation out there in the pool world. I mean a LOT. From sources you wouldn't expect that from. Do not believe anything you hear from anyone regardless of their credentials until you can verify it with provable facts, or with a source you know is trustworthy to ALWAYS do that. That even includes things you hear from instructors, really good players, even professional players, from manufacturers, people on this forum, or any other source, as you will get lots of wrong information from all of them.

Any possible question you could have regarding pool, literally, is covered at Dr. Dave's site linked below. Dr. Dave also deals exclusively with what is provable, or with where the majority of the evidence points in the cases where something isn't absolutely provable, and he lays out that evidence or proof for you so you don't even have to take his word on things. So his site not only is the most comprehensive, but it is the most accurate, so you get the best of both worlds and because of this there is little reason to ever have a need to go anywhere else.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/

For a beginner, I would most concentrate on your bridge, stance, and stroke (collectively referred to as "the fundamentals") in the beginning before you worry too much about english, or strategy, or much of anything else because bridge, stance, and stroke are the foundation for everything else and if these aren't good you will struggle for anything else to be good. These won't be the most fun things to concentrate on by a long shot, but they will probably be the most important. Your bridge should be solid and unwavering for all shots and this will require the use of several bridge types at differing times. Your stance needs to be as solid as possible as well and you have to keep your body and head completely still when you shoot. Your stroke, which will by far probably take the most time and work to master, needs to be relaxed, smooth, confident, committed, and have a good follow through. Doing all these things consistently is much more difficult than it sounds but are unbelievably important. Work on them from the start and develop good habits before you inadvertently develop bad habits (like many of us have) which will be incredibly difficult and sometimes impossible to correct later. See Dr. Dave's site for more detail on these things.

 

[Linwood]

First, there is a LOT of misinformation out there in the pool world. ....
Dr. Dave also deals exclusively with what is provable, ....

http://billiards.colostate.edu/

I found that site early, stumbling across it in looking at the physics of collisions, at which point I realized how much physics and math I had forgotten over the years.

But yes, it was clear a reasoning, rationale mind was behind the site, and I've done a lot of reading there.

Your stroke, which will by far probably take the most time and work to master, needs to be relaxed, smooth, confident, committed, and have a good follow through. Doing all these things consistently is much more difficult than it sounds but are unbelievably important. Work on them from the start and develop good habits before you inadvertently develop bad habits (like many of us have) which will be incredibly difficult and sometimes impossible to correct later. See Dr. Dave's site for more detail on these things.

That's why I thought interaction with people or an instructor is helpful; it is very hard to be self-critical of how we move, even aside from really knowing what is right.

Though getting the right help is really key. My wife recently decided to learn to play the piano. While I play (a bit) I did not want to try to teach her, so unfortunately she got a friend to teach her. Someone who never really learned well. So while she can play a bit now (and has stopped with that teacher), she is having to un-learn a lot, and also has huge gaps. Turns out this teacher never really understood any music theory - how keys and chords progress, what infrequently used musical symbols mean, etc. Really she did more damage than good.

So to your point, I am trying to figure out how much of decades of playing AT pool I need to un-learn and try to get right.

While just enjoying having a table again of course.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

 

[buckets]

It might need to be re-leveled after a week or two (esp. if installed on top of carpet)

 

[Linwood]

It might need to be re-leveled after a week or two (esp. if installed on top of carpet)

I'm hoping not, as it's tile on slab which has been there 12 years already.

Yeah... hope is not a plan. But I hope not. Their mechanic has a 2 hour drive to get here, he won't be cheap to get back.

 

[mchnhed]

Normal Settling

I'm hoping not, as it's tile on slab which has been there 12 years already.

Yeah... hope is not a plan. But I hope not. Their mechanic has a 2 hour drive to get here, he won't be cheap to get back.

The level check 3 months out will be because of the frame settling, not the floor.

 

[Linwood]

The level check 3 months out will be because of the frame settling, not the floor.

Oh. Well that's an annoying thought. But now I know, I'll plan to check it and expect to have them back.

I assume this is about raising and lowering the corners to level, not to re-align the slate, as that would require a re-cover, right?

I wonder how the steel frame plays into this; I'm curious to see how that works, what is carried on wood, what on the steel (especially with the steel jacketed legs, though my guess is that's just a facade not structural).