New Install - what should a novice check/ask for?

With many thanks for everyone's input, the table was installed today.

I have a ton of photos, and rather than mix them in here, I just started a new thread under the table review section, hope that was OK.

New Thread

I also did a time lapse video of the install if you want to see a pool table go up really fast (about 1 minute). Not sure how to embed so here's a link:

https://youtu.be/N7DBI4jDrw8
 
Wow! That was fun to look at. Thanks for sharing so many pictures and the time lapse video. It looks like you will have lots of fun at that table, and having dinner guests over. Enjoy!
 
When the cloth comes loose, when you find little wooden shims on the floor, when the slate seams separate, and when the balls start rolling off....dont bother calling the sales company back for service work, just remind yourself.... that's a beautiful dinning room tables:grin:
 
When the cloth comes loose, when you find little wooden shims on the floor, when the slate seams separate, and when the balls start rolling off....dont bother calling the sales company back for service work, just remind yourself.... that's a beautiful dinning room tables:grin:

Could be. Won't be the first mistake I've made in life if so. I'll let you know.

But I am curious if you say that because of something you saw, and whether it was design of the table, the way it was installed, or just that you think dining/pool tables are a poor compromise?

Your profile says "on the road everywhere"... if you are in SW Florida, drop me a note, you are welcome to come give it a try in person and see if it lives up to your expectations.
 
I know it's only been a few days, but what do you think? How does the table play? Can you place the cue ball in front of a diamond, shoot at the opposite diamond, and have it return to your tip?
 
This has more to do with how good your stroke is than how well the table plays...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant AzBilliards Forums
 
I know it's only been a few days, but what do you think? How does the table play? Can you place the cue ball in front of a diamond, shoot at the opposite diamond, and have it return to your tip?

Well, that presumes I could hit the other diamond, without imparting spin.

But having giving up on trying to determine how much of that was me and how much was the table, I took two same-type cues, and made a little ramp, and rolled a stripe down it (so I could see any spin). I can consistently, long wise on the table, get it to come back and hit one of the two cues (so within maybe 1.5"). Probably more to the point it does not seem to have a preference left or right, so I think the variation is in how level the two cues are with respect to each and whether I hold them level when releasing.

Give me a few weeks (months or years) where I can hit more accurately and I think the answer is "yes".

Anyway, in general quite happy. Balls roll straight and true at least to the eye, no matter how slow. While I do not claim to know how they should bounce, they bounce similarly on all rails and all parts of the rail. The table is sturdy, bumping it a bit or leaning on it doesn't move it (obviously not TRYING to move it, just routine play when you have a long reach to the cue).

The one disappointment so far is that the pockets are really shallow (I guess so they won't show below the thin side). So four balls and the fifth stands a chance of bouncing up, and will be visible above the playing surface if it stays in. In the grand scheme of things it is not that tough to remember to take a couple balls out occasionally (it's usually just one corner) while playing, but it is a bit annoying.

The help here was quite important. I got the lighting bright and right I think (still tweaking the aiming), I did get better balls and cues with the table; not sure if I could tell the difference now but at least I won't wake up later and realize I got crap. We got the spacing OK, I haven't hit a wall yet with the cue. I am VERY glad I did not trust the manufacturer's recommended space, they effectively left room for the cue, but zero back stroke. So thanks to whoever contributed to the various threads here on room size.

A lot of VERY useful information here.

This has more to do with how good your stroke is than how well the table plays...

Indeed. :scratchhead:
 
Glad you like the table, sounds like you have it installed well. Hope it holds up. As far as the stroke goes, I'd like to offer some advice, from a peer. You seem smart enough to ignore most of the over the top stuff. A couple of years ago, I was asked to sub for a team. When I showed, everyone was way better then me. I suggested they get someone else, they assured me it would be fine. Bunch of really nice guys. So I went to the library, took home three books. Skimmed through all three and picked one. Read all of it but did not try 90 % of it. Lay a beer bottle on a flat level surface, close to table height, stroke your cue in and out, without touching bottle. Only a straight level stroke will work. Do this a lot, when ever you have a minute. Stand back and look, what is the bottles relationship to the world, what is your relationship to the bottle, where is your cue? I know it seems dumb, you will be amazed at how much this helps. As said in earlier post, grip, bridge, stance, approach to target line, fundamentals are all that matters. Do the 15 straight in drill. I was shocked the first time I did it. Took me 4 tries. Now I could do it all day. Stick with all the different straight in drills. Build a stroke, it is fun to have one. Once you can consistently stroke the cue ball, without imparting unintended english, you can play with anybody.
 
Thanks, @Jimmorrison. The beer bottle sounds interesting. If I touch it by accident do I have to discard it and empty another one? ;)

The stance and stroke are what I am struggling with. I have watched endless Youtube's, and they are pretty consistent, and my natural stance is different. I tend to have the back foot just about like they do, but I put the right foot very close to the aim line also, and it's hard to shift it wide, though I can see why it is better. Worse is I'm having a lot of trouble bending down and getting a good horizontal view, I find I have always played about 3/4 vertical. The closer I do, the better my aim, so I get it, I just don't bend that way very well.

So it's a work in progress. I've stopped reading about all the aiming systems and about 90% of the english tutorials, and throw and skid and such, and just trying to hit straight where I aim down the length of the table. I've stopped a couple times to measure and make sure it isn't a 12' table instead of 9', as it feels that way at times. :eek:

But after not having access to a table for 12 years, it is nice to have one in the other room.
 
Practice the Basics

Start with the fundamentals.

Study the table.
Find the aim line.
Commit to a shot.
Stop Thinking.
Stance.
Grip.
Bridge.
Stroke.
Sight OB to Pocket Last.
Shoot.
Follow Though.
Remain down.
Observe the action of the balls.
Analyze.
Correct.
Relax.
Have Fun.

Do simple one shot drills to see your faults.
Up and Back to cue tip.
Up and Back with 1 Tip English, Left/Right 1 diamond.
Straight Shots, Length of Table.
Stroke Drills and follow through using the rack spot.
 
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Glad to see "relax" is in there somewhere. Just memorizing the list may take me a week or two. :eek:

More seriously, thanks. I started off thinking I needed to learn all about English, throw, aiming for rebounds, etc. But I've come to see the main thing is to be able to hit the ball where I aim -- I'll figure out later where to aim better. Does no good to know where to aim and not be able to hit it!
 
Glad to see "relax" is in there somewhere. Just memorizing the list may take me a week or two. :eek:
You could put "relax" in-between every one of those actions.

Only Five main things to work on. (For now)

Aim Line
Stance
Grip
Bridge
Stroke


Search for and buy these two videos for absolute beginners......

"Play Better Pool: Mastering the Basics" Randy Goettlicher & Scott Lee
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-BmHD0Hso

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vSdmhmgYxfM

Both Videos are available here on Amazon.
"Perfect Pool" Mike Segel (pay no attention to the used car salesman shooting with him)
https://www.amazon.com/Mike-Sigels-3-DVD-Perfect-Instructional/dp/B004D8TXAI

Shoot nothing but straight in shots half the length of the table. Use just the CB if you are a real beginner.
Diagonal Shot - CB below the side pocket to an OB near the corner.
If you can't shot it straight in, you will not be able to do angle shots.
Do that daily until the Videos show up.

The videos have progressive drills that get you into a regular, relaxed routine where you only have to think about your target line.
 
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Shoot nothing but straight in shots half the length of the table. Use just the CB if you are a real beginner.
Diagonal Shot - CB below the side pocket to an OB near the corner.
If you can't shot it straight in, you will not be able to do angle shots.
Do that daily until the Videos show up.

The videos have progressive drills that get you into a regular, relaxed routine where you only have to think about your target line.

My suggestion for the OP to make the above (just doing straight in shots) so much better and so much more effective is that when practicing shots or drills, spend most of your time doing stop shots. Do stop shops at every distance from half a diamond to 9+ diamonds long (cue ball on the lip of one corner pocket, object ball on the lip of the diagonal corner pocket). Start with the shorter distances as they are much easier and work you way up as you begin to master them.

You also need to do all of these different distance stop shots at all possible speeds for each one. For example, for the stop shot at 3 diamonds distance, you need to be able to do it from the absolute slowest speed possible (which would be not much more than lag speed) to the highest speed possible (which will be 80% of break speed), and you need to be able to do the full speed range for each and every distance. Do not just get comfortable with only one certain speed for each stop shot but make sure you can do all stop shots at any speed because you will need that skill later to play various distances of position down the tangent line on cut shots.

While you are practicing the stop shots you need to be concentrating on two things. Your fundamentals (which is actually many things), and that the cue ball stops dead with as little possible movement in any direction (and the goal is NO movement whatsoever) and with no spin on the cue ball.

Doing the above is going to give you several things. You are going to have to focus on your fundamentals to really get good at stop shots at all distances, at all speeds for each distance, and where the cue ball doesn't move even the slightest bit after contact. It is going to help force you to develop and use good fundamentals and a good repeatable stroke.

Additionally, the stop shot is the single most important shot in pool by many miles, not just in and of itself, but also because every other shot is or can be based off of it. It is like the foundation for everything else. First, the tangent line is an easily and precisely identifiable cue ball path that you will use a LOT, and guess what, it is shot exactly as the stop shot would be except that you are only hitting only a portion of the object ball (since you are cutting it) instead of a full ball hit, but you hit it exactly the same. Not the mention that the stop shot itself is used a tremendous amount in pool, probably more than any other shot in pool, usually several times a game.

And for any shot where you know how to do a stop shot, you now have a good gauge or measuring stick with which to do draw or follow shots as you learn to judge and master them. If you need to draw the cue ball a little bit, then you know you have to hit the cue ball a little lower, or a little harder (or both) than you would for a stop shot. If you need to follow the cue ball forward for a significant distance then you know that you need to hit the cue ball much higher or much harder (or both) than would be required for the stop shot. It gives you a gauge to base all other shots on so that you will learn the feel of them much quicker if you have mastered stop shots at all speeds first, plus you are building your stroke and fundamentals and the basis of position play and everything else in the process of learning stop shots so it is like you are killing 20 birds with one stone.

You literally get almost everything developed (including focus and a billion other things I won't bother to list all out but suffice it to say there isn't much that isn't on the list) just be practicing and mastering stop shots. You will cut your learning curve down MASSIVELY and progress much faster into a good player if you will do this.
 
@Poolplaya9, thank you for the detailed thoughts. It does make sense, especially the idea of developing the sense of how-hard and how-low to hit it by distance so that aspect comes naturally.

I've seen a lot of what I think of as memory aides, to know how hard and how low to hit by distance, but is it really more fair to say one just has to get a feel for it so it comes naturally? By doing it over and over?

As soon as I can also hit it square, consistently. Still struggling with the stance.
 
One just has to get a feel for it so it comes naturally?
By doing it over and over?
and over and over until it is natural and you don't have to think about it.

As soon as I can also hit it square, consistently.
Shoot a CB the short distance across the table back to your cue's tip.
If that becomes too easy do it the long way down the center of the table.
***Order and Watch the two videos.***


Still struggling with the stance.
Place your cue on the aim line
Put your right foot on the aim line at an angle.
Step forward with your left foot.
***Order and Watch the two videos.***


Watch this until the two videos arrive.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b3j5PnsUwME

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KU57LBB-A4

Always helps to watch a pretty woman demonstrate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b82y7f7TFbw

Order and Watch these two videos for absolute beginners......

"Play Better Pool: Mastering the Basics" Randy Goettlicher & Scott Lee
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-BmHD0Hso

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vSdmhmgYxfM

Both Videos are available here on Amazon.
"Perfect Pool" Mike Segel (pay no attention to the used car salesman shooting with him)
https://www.amazon.com/Mike-Sigels-3.../dp/B004D8TXAI
 
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Place your cue on the aim line
Put your right foot on the aim line at an angle.
Step forward with your left foot.
***Watch the two videos.***

I well (I may already have, if they are online, I spent 6 weeks waiting for the table watching videos. :frown:

The stance: I do that. But...

I have two issues: When I step forward with the left, most (all?) videos show the need to step forward about a shoulder width to the left of the aiming line. I feel very awkward that way. If I put the foot much nearer the aiming line, I realize I lack good side-to-side stability (as a couple of videos emphasize), but it is comfortable.

I can't decide if it really matters.

The other is that, probably from being much too heavy, I have a very hard time bending down chin-to-stick (or near that), so I shoot from too high. I KNOW I need to get down further, as when I do I am more accurate, it is just not comfortable. I think this will come with practice.

But the foot position really bugs me. One feels very natural, one (the right one) does not.
 
You need a Comfortable and Stable Stance.

Stand the way that feels best and is stable.
Practice, Practice, Practice..........
You will find your own stance.
Don't think about it so much.
Watch the people in videos or online closely.
Feel how they are sighting, standing, bending over, stroking, following though, remaining down.
If you watch and be that person, your mind will retain that information when you have to do it.

It's called SyberVision. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gOeFD4qbocE Yes, I know it's for Golf. I wish someone like Dr.Dave would do a Pool Series.

Apprentice Sushi Chefs do not cut any fish for two years. They just watch and learn.(and do the dishes).
After two years they are asked to cut a fish and they perform quite well.

I well (I may already have, if they are online, I spent 6 weeks waiting for the table watching videos. :frown:

The stance: I do that. But...

I have two issues: When I step forward with the left, most (all?) videos show the need to step forward about a shoulder width to the left of the aiming line. I feel very awkward that way. If I put the foot much nearer the aiming line, I realize I lack good side-to-side stability (as a couple of videos emphasize), but it is comfortable.

I can't decide if it really matters.

The other is that, probably from being much too heavy, I have a very hard time bending down chin-to-stick (or near that), so I shoot from too high. I KNOW I need to get down further, as when I do I am more accurate, it is just not comfortable. I think this will come with practice.

But the foot position really bugs me. One feels very natural, one (the right one) does not.
 
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@Poolplaya9, thank you for the detailed thoughts. It does make sense, especially the idea of developing the sense of how-hard and how-low to hit it by distance so that aspect comes naturally.

I may not have been clear enough in my post or I might be misunderstanding your reply, but it is not just how low and how hard to hit by distance, as if there is only one possibility. It is the ranges for how low and the ranges for how hard that will work at any particular distance as well that are vitally important to master.

For example, on my 3 diamond distance example, you can do a stop shot by hitting extremely soft, close to lag speed, but at the furthest lowest point you can hit on the cue ball, right near the cloth, and get a dead perfect stop shot. For that same shot you can also hit it as hard as you accurately can, maybe 80% of break speed, but only hit just a hair below center ball, and also get a dead perfect stop shot. You can also get a dead perfect stop shot with unlimited combinations of how low you hit the cue ball and at what speed between those two extremes, and you need to have a good feel for all of those combinations from one extreme to the other for every single distance of shot.

Knowing all those combinations at all distances isn't quite so important for the stop shots themselves, but it is of paramount importance for the cut shots you hit exactly the same as a stop shot to follow the tangent line, and where you need to control exactly how far the cue ball goes, which you will almost always need to do. You do that by choosing the speed that will make the cue ball go the distance you need, and then adjust how low you hit the cue ball to give you the sliding at contact "stop shot" type hit so that the cue ball then follows the tangent line as you intended, and goes the distance you intended. But if you don't have a feel for hitting stops shots at all the various combinations of speed and lowness of hit that are possible, you will struggle mightily to have any cue ball control on your cut shots, particularly the ones where the cue ball is intended to follow the tangent line.
 
I may not have been clear enough in my post or I might be misunderstanding your reply,

My apologies, I perhaps do not know enough to recognize the difference in my statement and your reply, but I think I do understand, and it does make sense as best I do understand, and I do appreciate it. I'll certainly reread these in coming weeks and understand better.
 
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