New Jim Murnak cue case review

[NYC cue dude]

Sorry fred, but you are indeed misinformed.

A previous poster stated correctly that Justis is building "boilerplate" cases with minor variations to customize for a particular client. His analogy that it is the southwest of cases is dead on.

On the other hand, Murnak is building custom cases form the ground up, creating and utilizing innovations as the present thmeselves. Comparing the goods used from leather to hardware, murnak wins handsdown. Artistically Murnak wins as well. Laser engraving, leave that for the posers, Murnak does ALL his work by hand.

If you are so sure Murnak isn't in the league of Justis, why would Jack degrade himself publicly by starting off a post trying to bleittle Murnak? And you know Murnak well enough that you are sure he wouldn't be offended by saying this? Murnak has been working with leather (making holsters etc, ALL of his life. James Murnak Has burst on the pool scene and has stolen all casemakers thunder. Don't be surpirsed to see articles on him in Billiards Digest in the very near future. I gues it sucks to be a whitten, justis or any of the status quo, huh?

Randy

 

[PoolSleuth]

Sorry fred, but you are indeed misinformed.

A previous poster stated correctly that Justis is building "boilerplate" cases with minor variations to customize for a particular client. His analogy that it is the southwest of cases is dead on.

On the other hand, Murnak is building custom cases form the ground up, creating and utilizing innovations as the present thmeselves. Comparing the goods used from leather to hardware, murnak wins handsdown. Artistically Murnak wins as well. Laser engraving, leave that for the posers, Murnak does ALL his work by hand.

If you are so sure Murnak isn't in the league of Justis, why would Jack degrade himself publicly by starting off a post trying to bleittle Murnak? And you know Murnak well enough that you are sure he wouldn't be offended by saying this? Murnak has been working with leather (making holsters etc, ALL of his life. James Murnak Has burst on the pool scene and has stolen all casemakers thunder. Don't be surpirsed to see articles on him in Billiards Digest in the very near future. I gues it sucks to be a whitten, justis or any of the status quo, huh?

Randy

I think both Case Makers are offering wonderful offerings. The one thing that CONCERNS me about the Murnak Case is the Closure. Too me it looks like it should be on a Fine Brief Case that is handle with (TLC) Tender loving Care. I personally see no use for a Lock with key on a Cue Case.

Many Pool Players be they amateur, or profession Travel frequently, and shall I say ABUSE their Cases. By trusting their Cases to the Airlines personal, putting em in the trunk of an Automobile, etc., etc. Where the Locking Mechanism is shall we say subject to lots of USE & ABUSE.

I think Mr. Justis’s Cases have incorporated a Simple Snap closure that will last a Very Long Time, and if it needs to be fixed, or replaced will be an easy project.

I am currently using a Dan Whitten 2 x 4 Model 42-F that is made of Chrome Tanned Leather. I love the Case, it suits my needs. But I handle the case with (TLC) Tender loving Care, take care of it, as I know the if I do not the Chrome Tanned Leather. will look like crap in a very short time.

I see a lots of Pros on T.V. with Justis Cases, and Pros travel frequently. By Car, Train, and Air. Think most Pro Pool Players want equipment that will last, and last.

Think recently a Justis Case use by Efren Reyes when up on E-bay for sale,
it was gone in a flash.

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=19075

Justis Cases appear to even have a collectable value also.

 

[Celtic]

I don't know what you mean. The case in question is a standard Murnak cue with dressed up aesthetics. I don't think this is any different than, say, the laser engraved skull work (full back side) that Jack has done. I'm not shilling Jack, or downing Jim. I just don't see how the cases aren't in the same league. I think you are well understating what Jack does in his custom work.

Show me a single case Jack Justis has built that is as unique and varied from the norm as this. A case with pockets in the actual interior of the case, points, actual inlays of material into the leather, and leather made to match the grain of the cues wood.

http://www.jimmurnakcuecases.com/gl1607.htm

I have never seen it. I have never seen Jack do anything truely unique, his cases are all the same thing with different coverings or slightly different pocket configurations and some minor carving/engraving. He has never come close to the above case in the way of originality from what I have seen.

And I think you're now overstating what Jim's work is all about. If Jim has done things that Chas Clements hasn't done, that would be shocking. I think Jim has a ways to go to be compared with Chas (or Jack for that matter).

Fred

When has Jack ever done carving on a case to this level of detail?

http://www.jimmurnakcuecases.com/gl2103.htm

http://www.jimmurnakcuecases.com/GL2110.htm

http://www.jimmurnakcuecases.com/gl2106.htm (this ones closeups are stunning)

That is true hand carved leather. Those cases are far more detailed and original artwork then anything I have seen Justis do.

Look at this gallery. These cases are all the exact same. Slightly different pocket configuration, different color of leather, different name engraved, maybe a slightly different smattering of common design here and there, but there is not much to truely make any one of those cases anything close to as unique a piece of art as anything I listed above by Murnak.

http://members.aol.com/JJustis4/gallery.html

Look at the design on the cap of the Fisher case, now look at the design on the cap of the Incardona case. Yep, they are the exact same. The Hopkins case has that exact same pattern of knotwork again on the cap AND down the pockets. The most fancy case is likely the Lee case, with a couple diamonds inlaid into the pockets, and that is simple in comparison to a case that has a custom one of a kind hand carved surface like the Southwest Murnak case and is warped by the Gina-Cue case.

The biggest difference in any of the cases is pretty much the letters on the laser engraved name. They are cookie cutter cases with custom case prices. If you want to blow $500 for a not-so unique case then Justis is your man. You want a truely unique one of a kind custom made case? Get a Murnak.

 

[scruggsinhand]

7lbs, that does sound heavy but how does it compare to other hard leather 3x6 cases?
It sounds like a Justis is 6lbs.
Does anyone have weights for Whitten, Instroke, Engles, Its George etc??
Thanks

leather its george 3x6 two pouches and upgrade strap weighs 4 lb. 14 oz empty -

leather porper 3x6 weighs 3 lb - 12 oz ---this is my day to day case, for this very reason....

leather tooled instroke 3x5 -- one weighed 6 lb 3 oz....the other weighed 6lb 9 oz....

and just for comparison...flowers 2x4 - tooled with two pockets weighs 4 lb 14 oz


i am a pretty big guy and the instrokes are way too heavy for anything other than light use, in my opinion....a full, two day, or state/vegas tournament and your shoulder will let you know what i mean....even the 1lb difference in between the george and porper is enough in the long run (porper more comfortable also!!)

 

[Cornerman]

Comparing the goods used from leather to hardware, murnak wins handsdown. Artistically Murnak wins as well. Laser engraving, leave that for the posers, Murnak does ALL his work by hand.

Who says this is about winning?

If you are so sure Murnak isn't in the league of Justis,

Before you continue , I didn't say that Murnak isn't in the league of Justis. I was clearly responding to someone claiming that Justis isn't in Murnak's league. That's quite a different spin.

What I did say is that Jim has a ways to go. Of course he does. His product is brand new. You can't say that his product has withstood the test of time, yet. I'm not saying it won't. I'm saying you can't say it, yet. I'm sure Jim won't take offense to that. He shouldn't.

I gues it sucks to be a whitten, justis or any of the status quo, huh?

Randy

Why do you feel the need to say this? Jack just changed his entire case to accomodate requests from customers. That's a response based on time and field testing. Why try this debate?

The question was about weight. Keep it at that.

Fred

 

[Snapshot9]

My .02 cents ...

It is NOT a contest even though they are competitors in
the marketplace. They both are excellent case makers,
with something unique to offer Poolplayers. I just think
we are lucky to have such case makers with the quality
of workmanship, design, and artistic flair that both possess.

 

[Cornerman]

Show me a single case Jack Justis has built that is as unique and varied from the norm as this. A case with pockets in the actual interior of the case, points, actual inlays of material into the leather, and leather made to match the grain of the cues wood..

You've really turned this something into something it's not. The question was about weight. Now you're trying to make it a Murnak vs. Justis case, and understating what Jack is doing and why he's doing it. I don't understand the need to defend Jim with attacks on Jack. Because I said Jim's cases are heavier??? Wow.

FWIW, my Jack Justis case has inlays, and other customized features not seen on any other Jack Justis case. Does it matter to anyone else? It's not Jack's intention for his cases. His decision on why he makes cases as he does comes from years of selling cases and getting feedback from customers.

If Jim Murnak is to survive in the case game, being open to feedback from customers is extremely important. Now, let's talk about the weight.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

It is NOT a contest even though they are competitors in
the marketplace. .

Exactamundo. Why anyone considers this a contest and "this guy's is better" stuff is just annoying. As you say, they cater to the same marketplace, the same clientele, ergo, same league. Since they make different style cases, and approach their cases differently, they have different production and marketing strategies. That gives people choices.

I would hope that Jim Murnak new that in order to make a product that would be viable, that it couldn't mimick a Justis case or a Whitten case, or else he'd be putting himself out of the game. It should be no surprise to anyone that Murnak cases are what Justis and Whitten cases are not. It should also be of no surprise that Whitten cases are what Justis cases are not. I'd call Jim's cases a successful attempt of a standard case with optional aesthetics reminiscent of Chas Clement.

Fred

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Choice is good.

I bought an Instroke Cowboy case a long time ago, because I liked it and it was different. Soon, every Tom, Dick and Harry, had one. I like individuality, short of freakish, that is. What I am trying to say is, I like that there are so many fine cases to choose from. I really like aspects of each; Justis, Murnak, Whitten, Thomas and yes Instroke too. I don't think any of them is better or worse just different and that is a good thing.

 

[Celtic]

Before you continue , I didn't say that Murnak isn't in the league of Justis.

Oh really?

I think Jim has a ways to go to be compared with Chas (or Jack for that matter).

Sounds to me like you said pretty much exactly that right there. Your arguement that his cases have not been around long enough and that is what you meant is crap and you, I and everyone else here knows it. His product speaks for itself and it is already easily comparable to Justis, and it compares VERY WELL to it.

What I did say is that Jim has a ways to go. Of course he does. His product is brand new. You can't say that his product has withstood the test of time, yet. I'm not saying it won't. I'm saying you can't say it, yet. I'm sure Jim won't take offense to that. He shouldn't.

Yeah, he should. You can tell the quality of a product and how well it will stand the test of time by the workmanship put into it. You clearly know nothing about this but your ignorance is no defence. What do you think is going to happen? The leather is going to disintegrate? The stiching is going to come loose? This guy has been working with leather for many many years beyond his case work (which is obvious by looking at it even if noone has actually said exactly that). Those cases are going to stand up to the test of time as well as any product out there. You remind me of one year I was in Vegas at the BCA. I went to the Instroke booth and was taking a look at their cases and a "competitors" case they had there to show how much better they were. The "competitors" case was leather, the tubes were loose inside the case, the sales person squeezed the sides of the case and all the tubes shifted and squished together in a mess. The case was made to look like absolute crap by the Instroke booth and the salesman. That case was a Justis. Is that the norm? I doubt it, his cases are far too aclaimed. That being said if you WANT to make something look bad via biased debate then you CAN, even a Justis.

The question was about weight. Keep it at that.

Bullshit, this is what you posted.

7 lbs 3 oz empty, and you don't anticipate weight being an issue?

I don't know what you're comparing that to, but I can say with confidence that it's going to be an issue. That's friggin' heavy. You'll end up adding 4 lb+ worth of cues and accessories. I hope you've got strong arms and a strong back.

I picked up a Murnak 3/6 loaded. That thing was entirely too heavy. It was easily the heaviest loaded 3/6 or 3/7 case that I've had the pleasure of picking up. Maybe the guy was lugging around lead weights?

Good luck.

Nothing more then a rant and a flame of Jim's cases due to the weight. On a thread that was a case review by an owner. You started the stupid attacks on case makers here while stroking Justis so dont get all pissy when all of the sudden you find the tables turned.

Plus when a guy starts a thread about HIS cases weight and makes the very first sentance

I don't want anyone to think I am belittling anyone else's cases, especially Mr. Murnak.

He has basically put out the gauntlet. It was a cheap shot and he simply made it obvious who he was comaring his cases too weightwise. He is clearly a little scared of the competition and felt the need to put out a little attack. Jack's cases are still heavier then elastic bands, maybe we should all use those as weight is > all right Jack? It is the ONLY thing he has going for him.

 

[PoolSleuth]

.

I would hope that Jim Murnak new that in order to make a product that would be viable, that it couldn't mimick a Justis case or a Whitten case, or else he'd be putting himself out of the game. It should be no surprise to anyone that Murnak cases are what Justis and Whitten cases are not. It should also be of no surprise that Whitten cases are what Justis cases are not.

Fred

The above seems like a fair comparison to me.

 

[gforces1911]

Oh really?


He has basically put out the gauntlet. It was a cheap shot and he simply made it obvious who he was comaring his cases too weightwise. He is clearly a little scared of the competition and felt the need to put out a little attack. Jack's cases are still heavier then elastic bands, maybe we should all use those as weight is > all right Jack? It is the ONLY thing he has going for him.

I actually like the multifunction part of the new case. Being able to transport up to 4/8 is really something. I have had a porpers in 2/4, 3/6 and 4/8. I really preferred the 4/8 esp. if I have a cue to sell or was thinking about buying a cue or if a friend needed to borrow a cue. Plus, I prefer to carry more than one break stick just as a personal preference.

I like the Murnak product as functional product. The pocket design is something really nice to have and was designed for the player in mind. Personally I like the appearance of the Justis product. I almost bought a Murnak during the AZ release period. I actually pmed him on the last day and I believe that he attempted to PM me back but my box was full that day.

I think it is good for their to be competition in the marketplace and Murnak has a good niche at that pricepoint. I don't think there is an archetype for cases. Some prefer Whitten- they make an excellent case as well.

 

[Cornerman]

His product speaks for itself and it is already easily comparable to Justis, and it compares VERY WELL to it.

Stop getting so defensive. You're taking my words out of context.

Yeah, he should. You can tell the quality of a product and how well it will stand the test of time by the workmanship put into it. You clearly know nothing about this but your ignorance is no defence.What do you think is going to happen? The leather is going to disintegrate? The stiching is going to come loose?

A man's reputation as a premier case builder is built over time. This is consistent in virtually every industry. Nothing you say in such over-the-top defensiveness changes this. You aren't doing Jim any favors.

This guy has been working with leather for many many years beyond his case work (which is obvious by looking at it even if noone has actually said exactly that).

See, here you aren't even talking about the basics of a cue case. How am I suppose to respond to this? The way you're talking, a cue case is about the outer layer of leather. Is that what you really think?

Bullshit, this is what you posted.

yup, that's what I posted. A post on the weight. Nothing more. Why you're carrying on about other things is your problem, not mine. Weight.

Nothing more then a rant and a flame of Jim's cases due to the weight.

There was no ranting or flaming by anyone's stretch of imagination. It was a post on the idea that someone thought that the weight menitoned "wouldn't be a problem." Weight has been an issue with every higher end case.

On a thread that was a case review by an owner. You started the stupid attacks on case makers here while stroking Justis so dont get all pissy when all of the sudden you find the tables turned.

Is this what this is to you? Tables are turned? What is this, some swashbuckling comedy? Weight. That's all I was responding to. The weight. Nothing about how the rest of the case is. Thanks for being level headed.

Fred

 

[PoolSleuth]

Maybe the Topic should be renamed CASE WARS....

Weight is a Big Deal, so is Protection, and Performance.

When I packin a Six Shooter & tin for a living, I was Issued Safariland Morgan Magnum as my Body Armor. It was Big, Bulky, Unconfortable, and Heavy.

I looked about 20 pounds heavier than I was with out my VEST. Today the Vests are Better with more Stopping Power, Lighter, and Easier to Wear for a 12 Hour Shift.

Road Bikes like the one Lance rode in the Tour de France, have also evolved from being 25#'s of Metal, to like 13 or 14 pounds of High Technology material that goes faster, and quicker.

Above changes to Body Armor, and Bicycles were brought about by their respective industries because of Consumer Feedback & Technology.

Jack Justis have been in the Pool Case Biz what 15 year? Think in that time he learned a thing or two about what works, what don’t work, and had a little feed back from his customers wo are like the Who's Who of the Pool world.

Jim Murnak is the NEW Cue Case Builder, and appear to have some great stuff, and is doing some unique things. But for how long has he been build Cue Cases? Have his Case been in Real pool Players hand long enough to weather the test of time. I think not.

As I have said before, and will say again, I see Jim Murnak Brief Case Type Closure as a potential problem with the abuse a Cue Case can get intentionally or non intentionally. Maybe Jim Murnak should clone Mr. Justis's case Closure System that is simple, but appear to work well with Few Moving parts.

I am going to try and start walking to the Pool Room Daily with my 2 x 4 Whitten that weighs in at just about 9#’s 12 Ounces FULL. Think it would be easier to hump if it was a Pound or Two lighter. My trek is about 1.5 miles each way.

 

[TATE]

Question for Jim

Jim,

A while back, I asked you if you were familiar with the "Sheridan" style of carving and finish. You said you thought you could do any type if you saw it.

For those not familiar, Sheridan is the traditional style of carving used on holsters and saddles in the old west, and it's been revived by the leather artisans of today.

It is the same as what you are doing in many ways, relief carving and tooling. The finish is different. It is typically done on natural undyed tooling leather then dyed with oil and antiqued. This makes the carving stand out. Below is a classic example.

I have often thought that this type of style would be very attractive (in areas) on a natural colored leather cue case. Do you think you could do this sort of carving and dye work? Patterns are available.

An example is shown below:

Chris

 

[jimM]

Jim,

A while back, I asked you if you were familiar with the "Sheridan" style of carving and finish. You said you thought you could do any type if you saw it.

For those not familiar, Sheridan is the traditional style of carving used on holsters and saddles in the old west, and it's been revived by the leather artisans of today.

It is the same as what you are doing in many ways, relief carving and tooling. The finish is different. It is typically done on natural undyed tooling leather then dyed with oil and antiqued. This makes the carving stand out. Below is a classic example.

I have often thought that this type of style would be very attractive (in areas) on a natural colored leather cue case. Do you think you could do this sort of carving and dye work? Patterns are available.

An example is shown below:

Chris

Chris,

Yes I can. I could probably even pick up that exact design by printing it and enlarging it, or I could buy a book of designs and give you a choice. The coloration that is used is not a problem.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[jimM]

answer

I see Jim Murnak Brief Case Type Closure as a potential problem with the abuse a Cue Case can get intentionally or non intentionally. Maybe Jim Murnak should clone Mr. Justis's case Closure System that is simple, but appear to work well with Few Moving parts.



The reason that I put the lock on the case in the first place, besides the security and look, was that I noticed that in many of the cases that I observed this was the weak spot. The turn clasps that were being used were breaking. Since then, if someone wants that type of closure, I get the best one that I can find to use. If you want me to clone Mr. Justis's closure, I can do that, but in general, I have made decisions that I feel are good and so far I have not had any reason to think that they are the wrong ones.

Also, everything on my cases are fixable. The worst thing is to have a case that is not usable because it can't be fixed.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[1pRoscoe]

The reason that I put the lock on the case in the first place, besides the security and look, was that I noticed that in many of the cases that I observed this was the weak spot. The turn clasps that were being used were breaking. Since then, if someone wants that type of closure, I get the best one that I can find to use. If you want me to clone Mr. Justis's closure, I can do that, but in general, I have made decisions that I feel are good and so far I have not had any reason to think that they are the wrong ones.

Also, everything on my cases are fixable. The worst thing is to have a case that is not usable because it can't be fixed.

Thanks,
Jim

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I've had my Murnak case for about 4 months and use it daily. I'm not gentle on my cases, and this one looks flawless. The clasp is top notch and an ease to open/close with one hand. I HIGHLY doubt that I will ever have a problem with the clasp Jim uses.

 

[PoolSleuth]

The reason that I put the lock on the case in the first place, besides the security and look, was that I noticed that in many of the cases that I observed this was the weak spot. The turn clasps that were being used were breaking.


Also, everything on my cases are fixable. The worst thing is to have a case that is not usable because it can't be fixed.

Thanks,
Jim

Think the NEW Instroke have that "turn clasps" you speek of. Seen quite a few of the new Instroke with that turn clasps broke.

Good to know "everything" on your cases are fixable, not so with many Cases, as the cost of repairs often is more than a new case.