What if you intentionally play position for a jump shot in the middle of your run?
:grin-devilish: :rotflmao:New jump rule??
- Thread starter Neil
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What if you intentionally play position for a jump shot in the middle of your run?
:grin-devilish: :rotflmao:
It makes no sense. Jumping is just one of two ways to get out of trouble (excepting intentional fouls or whatever). What's it matter who caused the trouble?
If he feels the shooter is at fault and therefore shouldn't be allowed to get out of it easily, then his real problem is that he thinks jumping is too easy. So he should be asking for a full ban. It's nonsense to judge whether something should be allowed or not based on how a guy happens to be playing that day (bad enough to hook himself) or how many good rolls the other guy is getting (enough to hook you unintentionally several times). It's utterly random.
A way to disguise this rule and make it seem less random: You can only jump when you first approach the table. After your first shot it's not allowed. You get the exact same effect without anything being debatable.
But it'd still be a silly rule. It isn't about making guys learn to kick... why should anyone invent rules just to force people to accommodate those rules? That's like saying everyone who has gotten good at using their off hand to deal with a stretch should now be banned from using their off hand, just to force them to learn to use the bridge better (even though off hand is superior, except in situations where the rake is unavoidable).
Nobody has to force a player to learn, they will choose to learn everything if they want to be good. If they choose not to, it will bite them in the ass sooner or later (just as there are times where you must use the bridge, there will be times you must kick).
If he feels the shooter is at fault and therefore shouldn't be allowed to get out of it easily, then his real problem is that he thinks jumping is too easy. So he should be asking for a full ban. It's nonsense to judge whether something should be allowed or not based on how a guy happens to be playing that day (bad enough to hook himself) or how many good rolls the other guy is getting (enough to hook you unintentionally several times). It's utterly random.
A way to disguise this rule and make it seem less random: You can only jump when you first approach the table. After your first shot it's not allowed. You get the exact same effect without anything being debatable.
But it'd still be a silly rule. It isn't about making guys learn to kick... why should anyone invent rules just to force people to accommodate those rules? That's like saying everyone who has gotten good at using their off hand to deal with a stretch should now be banned from using their off hand, just to force them to learn to use the bridge better (even though off hand is superior, except in situations where the rake is unavoidable).
Nobody has to force a player to learn, they will choose to learn everything if they want to be good. If they choose not to, it will bite them in the ass sooner or later (just as there are times where you must use the bridge, there will be times you must kick).
One other point. If you make the argument that jumping has reduced the importance of kicking skills, you might have to admit that at the same time it has increased the importance of having a good safe game. With the jump shot in the game it puts added importance on being able to execute the deep safety, where the jump shot is not a viable option. The half-ass partial hook safety doesn't cut it against an opponent skilled in jumping.
Interesting topic.
Interesting topic.
I don't think that would be a good rule and I think it would lead to arguments about how much you are hooked, etc.... To me the more sensible rule is to ban the jump cue. Simply make it so that you can't use a jump cue or change shafts or cues after the break during a particular rack unless your cue was damaged in the ordinary course of play. So if you break your cue in anger you finish the rack with the biggest piece. You want to jump, use your playing cue. If your tip falls off, you can change shafts or cues. Simpler and better rule than the Hopkins proposal IMO. I am not really a proponent of jump cues, but am not a strong opponent of them either I guess. I think it is fine to leave it to different tournaments. For tournaments that want to regulate jumping, I think it is more workable to allow jumping with the playing cue. To me it is the same as a masse, if you have the skill to pull it off, do it, but I don't think a bag full of specialty trick shot cues is the best thing either, and I don't think pool should be a game where you have 12 cues for different shots and change around a lot. Someday a player will have a draw cue, a follow cue, a low deflection cue, meduium deflection cue, high deflection cue, heavy cue, light cue, 3 masse cues, a jump cue, a kick cue, and it will drive everybody nuts except a few vendors.:wink:
I will admit to being "old school" but that is not what my opinion is based on.
I am sure my input will not be popular with cuemaker's, but nonetheless, I think it has merit.
Why do you think the PGA banned "square grooves" and "hot long distance golf balls" ?
Because thay were bastardizing the game, and forcing every player to "own" or subscribe to these new innovations, in self defense. Plus they were actually a rule violation.
Legal jump shots have been around forever, and the skill to execute them is a true talent.
Even then, most rooms I grew up in, did not allow them. They were considered equipment abuse.
But to create a device (other than a normal length cue) to facilllitate the jump, to me is NOT the direction to go in.
Maybe we should look at "spring loaded" cues, for people who lack a powerful stroke. Or cork filled cues ? (Sammy Sosa liked his bats that way, till he got caught.)
I know it's not a popular stance, because every young player now thinks they have to have the latest "high powered spring board" to escape almost any snooker that they may face. (opponent's safety or by their own action.)
I also know my opinion will not sway the diehard jumper. But I think, if it's given enough thought, the fact that jump cues are banned in the most popular tournaments in the world, should speak volumes.
But what do Greg Sullivan and Allen Hopkins know about pool anyway ?
Dick <---would eat a dead rat before using a jump cue.
I am sure my input will not be popular with cuemaker's, but nonetheless, I think it has merit.
Why do you think the PGA banned "square grooves" and "hot long distance golf balls" ?
Because thay were bastardizing the game, and forcing every player to "own" or subscribe to these new innovations, in self defense. Plus they were actually a rule violation.
Legal jump shots have been around forever, and the skill to execute them is a true talent.
Even then, most rooms I grew up in, did not allow them. They were considered equipment abuse.
But to create a device (other than a normal length cue) to facilllitate the jump, to me is NOT the direction to go in.
Maybe we should look at "spring loaded" cues, for people who lack a powerful stroke. Or cork filled cues ? (Sammy Sosa liked his bats that way, till he got caught.)
I know it's not a popular stance, because every young player now thinks they have to have the latest "high powered spring board" to escape almost any snooker that they may face. (opponent's safety or by their own action.)
I also know my opinion will not sway the diehard jumper. But I think, if it's given enough thought, the fact that jump cues are banned in the most popular tournaments in the world, should speak volumes.
But what do Greg Sullivan and Allen Hopkins know about pool anyway ?
Dick <---would eat a dead rat before using a jump cue.
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We already have those, or at least foam filled cue shafts from Predator, and there are a bunch of other innovative materials and construction methods being tried these days.
As a younger player I don't have any problem with this, but if you really want to restrict the "purity" of the game the best way is to restrict all players to a single cue at the table that cannot be broken down during play. Players would have to break, play and jump with the same cue that way, which would be more like the "old days".
Also for the OP's information, the Challenge Of Champions is an independent event that seems to be run by people who just like to make up different rules every year just to keep the players on their toes. They have call 9 ball rules, and safety play rules and various other stuff that I've never seen in any other event.
Couldn't have put it better. I've heard a bunch of old-schoolers say that jump cues take away from kicking which is becoming a dying art - i disagree. Look at how many pros still prefer to kick over jump the majority of the time. Kicking still has its place in the game. I agree some over-use the jump cue, but like he said, I believe it makes you take your safety game to another level - where you have to do more than just get the CB behind a blocker, but to actually have the touch to freeze it to another ball and take away the jump. On top of that, it takes away alot of lucky hooks where a person misses and leaves the white behind a ball accidentally. IMO jumping is a skill in itself, and it makes you have to take your safety game to the next level.
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Please...
I would appreciate an honest, thoughtful response to my post.
Tell me I'm "old fashoined", tell me I'm wrong, but give me a valid reply to my thoughts on the "jump cue"
If it is not the popular concensus (among knowledgable player's) than I will go away quietly and commit "Hari Kari" with my FULL LENGTH pool cue !
Dick <----also likes "banger" responses, if they can form sentences that are understandable to the forum.
I would appreciate an honest, thoughtful response to my post.
Tell me I'm "old fashoined", tell me I'm wrong, but give me a valid reply to my thoughts on the "jump cue"
If it is not the popular concensus (among knowledgable player's) than I will go away quietly and commit "Hari Kari" with my FULL LENGTH pool cue !
Dick <----also likes "banger" responses, if they can form sentences that are understandable to the forum.
I think it is a bad idea, because in push out after the break you can push to a jump shot. That adds excitement to the game.
I will admit to being "old school" but that is not what my opinion is based on.
I am sure my input will not be popular with cuemaker's, but nonetheless, I think it has merit.
Why do you think the PGA banned "square grooves" and "hot long distance golf balls" ?
Because thay were bastardizing the game, and forcing every player to "own" or subscribe to these new innovations, in self defense. Plus they were actually a rule violation.
Legal jump shots have been around forever, and the skill to execute them is a true talent.
Even then, most rooms I grew up in, did not allow them. They were considered equipment abuse.
But to create a device (other than a normal length cue) to facilllitate the jump, to me is NOT the direction to go in.
Maybe we should look at "spring loaded" cues, for people who lack a powerful stroke. Or cork filled cues ? (Sammy Sosa liked his bats that way, till he got caught.)
I know it's not a popular stance, because every young player now thinks they have to have the latest "high powered spring board" to escape almost any snooker that run into. (opponent's safety or by their own action.)
I also know my opinion will not sway the diehard jumper. But I think, if it's given enough thought, the fact that jump cues are banned in the most popular tournaments in the world, should speak volumes.
But what do Greg Sullivan and Allen Hopkins know about pool anyway ?
Dick <---would eat a dead rat before using a jump cue.
Hey SJD,
I am not sure which category I fit in but here is my response.
I have played in tournaments where they are allowed and not allowed. In my opinion if jump cues were banned tomorrow it wouldn't bother me.
Do I have one? Yes
Do I use it? Yes
There are certain situations where the jump is necessary and there are certain situations where the kick is necessary. The reason I have and use one is to stay in the game. Whether we like it or not it is within the rules to use so if you don't have the ability to use one then you are potentialy putting yourself at a disadvantage.
I guess the bottom line is I don't care either way. I use one when I can and when I can't I don't.
BVal<----hopes he didn't make a fool of himself.
Alabanger
Registered
If I'm playing on your equipment, let me jump the ball.
If you're playing on my equipment, leave your jump cue at home. No masses either unless you're offering to recover the table.
Just kidding.
To me, jump shots should be allowed but if I were king I would allow just the use of a break cue and a playing cue. And I would make sure the entry fees covered cloth damage.
If you're playing on my equipment, leave your jump cue at home. No masses either unless you're offering to recover the table.
Just kidding.
To me, jump shots should be allowed but if I were king I would allow just the use of a break cue and a playing cue. And I would make sure the entry fees covered cloth damage.
Good response Brady, I think you are probably in the mainstream of the younger guy's.
But you (and others) have not responded to my take on the integrity of the game.
Tiger knows he cannot use a 110 inch driver, or a "hot" golf ball.
Does pool have NO rules similar in regard to equipment standards.
Maybe they should think about adapting some, before we lose control to the manufacturers ! JMveryf***ingHO
Dick
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As far as the integrity of the game - unfortunately I have not known it any other way in my experience.
There are rules on lenght of cues, width of shafts and types of tips. The balls are all standard and if they aren't at least all players are playing with the same balls.
BVal
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Any shot after the break shot should be made with the main playing cue. Jump shots were fine in pool until people went and invented the jump cue and thus took a shot that was as difficult as the alternative kicks and masses shots and made it a joke that a 8 year old kid can do after a 1 minute lesson from Robin Dodson at the BCA trade show.
The jump shots are not the problem, the jump cues are. If I ever ran a pool tour "No jump cues" would be one of the first rules to be set.
The jump shots are not the problem, the jump cues are. If I ever ran a pool tour "No jump cues" would be one of the first rules to be set.
TIPS, Brady, there are 4 million tips out there, And almost as many jump cue mfg.er's. I'm talking about conformity. Let the cream come to the top, but set SOME rules and parameter's. If not....its a free-for-all.
Don't think someone, somewhere, isn't working on a cue stick, (or tip) that will eliminate the need for an accurate stroke thru the ball. (bigger sweet spot) LOL
Dick
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The DCC only allows jumping with your playing cue. That tournament does okay.
That is exactly the way it should be.