new news on the checks~~~~~~

[smashmouth]

"This came to mind also.

Funny that these suckers with their narrow minds are not even ready to take these kind of possibilities under a concideration."

lol, You're the sucker and a simpleton for presuming such scenario.

 

[pooltchr]

Take your 13th post and shove it where the sun don't shine bub! You just ain't credible here. I got your number chump.
Purdman

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel????
Steve

 

[ironman]

This came to mind also.

Funny that these suckers with their narrow minds are not even ready to take these kind of possibilities under a concideration..

After reading both your posts here very carefully, I am reminded of the comercial by the NFL players a few years ago. JUST SAY NO!

 

[DaveK]

Take your 13th post and shove it where the sun don't shine bub! You just ain't credible here. I got your number chump.
Purdman

TAP TAP TAP.

I cannot believe that someone would actually suggest that it's OK to have a nonchalant attitude towards a professional sports event's payouts. Businessmen who say one thing and do another do not earn much respect from me. I cannot understand people who think that this is acceptable behavior.

Dave

 

[Marvel]

TAP TAP TAP.

I cannot believe that someone would actually suggest that it's OK to have a nonchalant attitude towards a professional sports event's payouts. Businessmen who say one thing and do another do not earn much respect from me. I cannot understand people who think that this is acceptable behavior.

Dave

Like I said, there is many things I don't "accept", but then again, the good things in IPT aree just so much more, that it is better to just accept the errors.

Of course it's cowardice(no comments about spelling plese), if not faceing nor admitting the mistakes, but there's no reason to call it quits, if such a good thing fails in some small things (even the small things are irritating).

 

[The Saw]

It's a forced boycott of the US Open

after e-mailing deno,he answered with this~~ dear mr. friend, we have the checks you will get paid as you did with the north american tour, in a few weeks. we have to go over the tax forms and make sure everything seems to be in order. i e-mailed him back, saying, "everyone was paid right there in vegas no one waited three weeks for their checks" and to please give me an actual date when the check will go out. will it be by october? how about march of 2007?" what is everyone's take on this? keep in mind we wer'e all paid at the north american open. strange isn't it?

Think about this one folks.... Remember when KT scheduled an IPT event the week of the US Open because there is bad blood between he and Barry Behrman??? Then Barry rescheduled the Open to it's current date??? Well if KT & the IPT didn't want IPT players to play in the Open they can't very well do a "public" boycott of the Open, it's bad PR. But if you are dealing with "broke" pool players that are looking to use IPT winnings from Reno to pay their US Open entry fee's and they don't receive their Reno IPT winnings until after the US Open has started, most can't come up with the cash to play. FORCED BOYCOTT, WITH PLAUSABLE DENIABILITY!!! I personally know of 3 IPT pros that are pretty much locks to finish top 32 at the Open that can't play because they haven't got their checks yet... The Open will still get players but there will definitely be some good players not present. None of the excuses the IPT has given make sense, I think this does. The Open starts Monday, so checks will probably start arriving Tuesday!

Saw

 

[Purdman]

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel????
Steve

I did pal!
Purdman

 

[NYC cue dude]

Marvel, I think the check delay is just one part of a growing list of problems the ipt is now facing.

The most glaring problem is "believability"

In late May, KT told me and a few other pros at the world straight pool championships that he sold half of the ipt to a european interest for 50 million dollars.

Then the ipt inexpicably cancels an entire event. The excuses given were feeble and largely unplausible. Research shows that the london site was/is available and getting tables through customs with enough lead time is a non issue. I know this personally after recieving Gabriels tables through customs for the straight pool championships.

There are still some lingering past due payments for some players/sponsors for events other than reno.

The present payment problems for reno are clearly NOT as those stated by the IPT. If in fact the mistakes were clerical in nature, they would have been remedied already. Of course this leads to more "negative speculation", and the obvious answer would be cash flow problems. This might be understandable in other situations, but KT has gone out of his way to set loftier standards for this tour, "real money' etc. Again, believability.

In reno, KT announced that he "has now sold" the ipt to Mr. Ho. I wonder what it felt like for guys like john schmidt to hear that, AGAIN? WHat should be believed, or is it a case, was he lying then, or is he lying now. You can't have it both ways.

Lastly, but equally troubling is the dleay of the 2007 schedule. KT is holding 100 qualifiers before the start of the delayed schedule. With the problem of non payments, this forces skeptical players (and rightfully so), to refrain from spending $2000 dollars for a chance to belong to something that might not be there when they show up with their luggage and cues.

So does this leave kt scrambling to look for other sources of revenue, now that he sees his non payment issues have disuaded potential qualifiers from enlisting? If kt was relying on this money (again, believability) he will need to eithe fund more himself or cut and run. EITHER scenario is possible, imo, but should players gamble on it?

Many of us on this forum ARE invested in the ipt, either emotionally or financially. Some have relatives, or very good friends as tour members. Pool has such a long history of players getting stuck, and no one wants to see that again. Some of us are backers and some of us are PAYING customers to the ipt, either through memberships or attending events

It is inappropriate to imply that these issues only apply to ipt memebers. It affects all of us, one way or another.

Finally, i would also like to add, that most if not ALL of the ipt tour card holders are very worried. Everyone of the ones i speak to are. They are angry, and saddened both at the same time. Most see the writing on the wall. The fact remains, they can't come on to a public forum and bash the ipt, while hoping to recieve money and continue participating if the tour survives. Their hands are tied, but our are not.

I think your posts, and a few other newbies, show exactly where you are coming from. If your naivee (sp), then I feel sorry for you, but your optimism would be genuine and for that you get a pass.

If your posts are fueled by some pr agenda, set forth by others, than i pity you and the shame you create for yourself will be PUBLIC, for all to see and will be evident by your absence once your mission is completed.

Randy Goldwater

 

[Marvel]

Hi Randy!


Thank's for such a dignified post with pure diplomacy and common sense in it.

I was actually surprised that I was ever able to read any post here in this forum without giving up in the middle of the first paragraph. (sorry for those who didn't deserve that one ; )

I'll answer you more with PM, the reason for this you'll understand when you'll read it.



For others, I apologize my mischievous style of writing in my earlier posts.

I've red this forum every now and then for the last couple of years, and I've never liked the common style what this forum has had. It seems that people just want to debate, bash everyone who doesn't think exactly like them, and show their ingeniousness in the professionalism of insulting others. The more stubborn and un-flexible you are, the 'greater' you feel.

Of course I'm not saying that that's the case in all of the topics, probably not even major of them, but much too much anyway, IMHO.

So, when I started to write myself, for some not-yet-completely-identified weakness in my character, I went straight into the game myself. It wasn't the first time, and actually this is not the first time I'm apologizing for some of my writings I've send to the ether earlier. /

I truly hope that some of my points were still understood, even I made it much more difficult for you by letting this mischievous kid to pop up again from the left side of my brains - and do all the writings.



Maybe I'll write more in the future with better self discipline, maybe I'll come around with different avatar, or maybe I'll even come up with my own name, hard to tell.

But that's not the important thing, like we all know.

The important thing would be that our beloved sport would do good.
At the present time, it would mean that the IPT would not fail.
We may all do some introspection and think that is there anything I can do? Is this what I'm doing, justified, and is it helping The IPT? Do I really know, can I really be sure, or do I just guess? Am I objective, or is there some twisted motivations behind? Is this helping the players or the sport?

We don't know what will happen, we don't know if we can affect to it or not, but negativity is never needed nor justified - it doesn't serve anybody's intentions. (lucifer's maybe, but who cares about him?)



Have a super day! Like they seem to wish here in USA.



Markus Juva


Professional Pool Player

Euro Tour Winner

IPT Tour Card Holder



Ps. Randy, maybe there's no need for PM's anymore, but I didn't quite get this one;

"I think your posts, and a few other newbies, show exactly where you are coming from. If your naivee (sp), then I feel sorry for you, but your optimism would be genuine and for that you get a pass."

Looking forward to meeting you some day.


M

 

[jay helfert]

Marvel, I think the check delay is just one part of a growing list of problems the ipt is now facing.

The most glaring problem is "believability"

In late May, KT told me and a few other pros at the world straight pool championships that he sold half of the ipt to a european interest for 50 million dollars.

Then the ipt inexpicably cancels an entire event. The excuses given were feeble and largely unplausible. Research shows that the london site was/is available and getting tables through customs with enough lead time is a non issue. I know this personally after recieving Gabriels tables through customs for the straight pool championships.

There are still some lingering past due payments for some players/sponsors for events other than reno.

The present payment problems for reno are clearly NOT as those stated by the IPT. If in fact the mistakes were clerical in nature, they would have been remedied already. Of course this leads to more "negative speculation", and the obvious answer would be cash flow problems. This might be understandable in other situations, but KT has gone out of his way to set loftier standards for this tour, "real money' etc. Again, believability.

In reno, KT announced that he "has now sold" the ipt to Mr. Ho. I wonder what it felt like for guys like john schmidt to hear that, AGAIN? WHat should be believed, or is it a case, was he lying then, or is he lying now. You can't have it both ways.

Lastly, but equally troubling is the dleay of the 2007 schedule. KT is holding 100 qualifiers before the start of the delayed schedule. With the problem of non payments, this forces skeptical players (and rightfully so), to refrain from spending $2000 dollars for a chance to belong to something that might not be there when they show up with their luggage and cues.

So does this leave kt scrambling to look for other sources of revenue, now that he sees his non payment issues have disuaded potential qualifiers from enlisting? If kt was relying on this money (again, believability) he will need to eithe fund more himself or cut and run. EITHER scenario is possible, imo, but should players gamble on it?

Many of us on this forum ARE invested in the ipt, either emotionally or financially. Some have relatives, or very good friends as tour members. Pool has such a long history of players getting stuck, and no one wants to see that again. Some of us are backers and some of us are PAYING customers to the ipt, either through memberships or attending events

It is inappropriate to imply that these issues only apply to ipt memebers. It affects all of us, one way or another.

Finally, i would also like to add, that most if not ALL of the ipt tour card holders are very worried. Everyone of the ones i speak to are. They are angry, and saddened both at the same time. Most see the writing on the wall. The fact remains, they can't come on to a public forum and bash the ipt, while hoping to recieve money and continue participating if the tour survives. Their hands are tied, but our are not.

I think your posts, and a few other newbies, show exactly where you are coming from. If your naivee (sp), then I feel sorry for you, but your optimism would be genuine and for that you get a pass.

If your posts are fueled by some pr agenda, set forth by others, than i pity you and the shame you create for yourself will be PUBLIC, for all to see and will be evident by your absence once your mission is completed.

Randy Goldwater

EXCELLENT POST RANDY. THANK YOU. YES, THE FAILURE OF THE IPT WILL AFFECT ME AS WELL. I WILL ONLY SAY THAT I HAVE AN INTEREST IN MORE THAN ONE PLAYER. LUCKILY, I DON'T HAVE TO DEPEND UPON THIS AS MUCH AS THEY DO. THEY REMAIN CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC. I AM JUST CAUTIOUS FROM HERE ON IN.

 

[Island Drive]

I am a true believer that good comes from bad. Mistakes are our teachers in life, its no different than committing to a shot, missing, remembering your mistake and moving on, its the way most of us grow up.
As this plays out I feel it will only galvanize the billiard community and make us all realize we need to do more.
We now know the thirst of this game for competition is world wide, we never really knew that before. With such a great history, with so many wonder representatives of this sport that have come before us it's just a matter of time. Hopefully the time is soon.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Markus, thank you for your revealingly honest post. I wonder what a great place this forum would be if more posters were as genuine as your last post was.

Obviously, you know who I am, and my connection to the game and it's players. Some of the greatest players in the world (many of them european), I am glad to call my very good friends.

I am distressed by the current state of affairs that the ipt is presently in. I wanted to emain FOREVER optomistic, but everytime I turnaround, there is a brand new development that causes me to lose much of that optomism. The ipt COULD be the greatest thing that ever happened to pool, and I wish it would be. I beleive there is still time, but thereneeds to bemore honesty andtransparency to restore the faith of the players, fans and hopeful qualifiers for this thing to work.

I won't write very much more, other than to say that I have heard many wonderful things about you and the strength of your game. I wish you all future successes inside and out of the ipt.

Please consider participating on the forums occasionally, as I am sure your insights into the game would be well recieved and appreciated.

Be well and shoot straight.

Randy Goldwater

 

[gopi-1]

Hehehe, I wonder when (ok if) the checks arrives, what you people find for the next topic to smash IPT..

Maybe I should wait a bit, but I cannot help it. You guys really are sad.



PS.

I'm not saying that I'm completely satisfied with the way IPT handles these things (quite obvious actually), but I'm still easily forgiving all these things, as I've seen how big IPT is, how much they have to do in such a short time, and how many things can go wrong, even if it wouldn't be their own fault.
Kevin has admitted many times, that IPT is far from perfect, but they are doing hard work to get it better.

Kevin's ways of doing things, seems to be quite unique, and there is lots of questionable things, like this check delay. Still, I do believe that the checks are coming, and the reason why the IPT is not coming up with excuses and explanations more, is simply that Kevin doesn't care about the doubters enough (nor the player's feelings, as he feels he's being Santa Claus allready). I would care, but seemingly Kevin doesn't.
I'm sure he feels he has done the greatest accomplishment for pool in it's history (which he has), so if the players need to wait little bit - SO WHAT?

Let's take Bernie for an example, and hypotethical approach that Kevin is going to stand behind his words in large scale.
Bernie doesn't know how to play billiards, but was chosen because shameless application. Bernie can be called crook actually. Bernie will get 13000$ this year, even not coming even near of winning ONE GAME on the Tour. Now Bernie is complainig here, and actually complaining and giving hard times in the tournaments also.
If Kevin knows that the money will be paid, maybe he just doesn't bother to give excuses for the delays, cos he feels it's not worth it, and the IPT is doing HUGE favour for the game and the players anyway, even some delays and errors on the way.

Once more I state, that if I were a rich guy and I would be organizing similar tour, I would have higher moral in these kind of things, which would probably even surpass the critics of this forum.

Kevin is not me - and I try to understand him, instead of just judging.



PPS.

By the way, as you seem to be so sure that the IPT is failing and it is just a matter of time when the rest of the world will realize it, and they are now just taking the money from the dorks who are going to the qualifiers and there wont be checks send nor Chigago event to be held, why did they cancel London?

I gotta hand it to you Marvel! You're such an optimistic guy!
Now, can you explain it to me why Marcus Chamat haven't gotten his 30
thousand dollars yet? It's been more than 2 months now since the NA 8-Ball
Championship and Marcus is still waiting...

PS:

Are you wearing blinkers? Or you were just born yesterday? lol

 

[Island Drive]

I gotta hand it to you Marvel! You're such an optimistic guy!
Now, can you explain it to me why Marcus Chamat haven't gotten his 30
thousand dollars yet? It's been more than 2 months now since the NA 8-Ball
Championship and Marcus is still waiting...

PS:

Are you wearing blinkers? Or you were just born yesterday? lol

Every great and not so great player in pool has won and has lost. Business goes about winning and losing daily. When there is a loss the greats learn and move on. This won't be the last time pool players will lose or win. What ever happens, the thirst for world competition is there and has been stirred up. This game doesn't care if your a man, woman, teenager, poor, rich, tall, short, one-legged or no legged. We may not get what we want or expect out of the IPT, but as always holds true "bad press is better than no press". I am glad someone stepped up to the plate and I am sure KT lost more than any one pool player did in this venue. Now someone else will come along and hopefully take it one step further. If it goes bust at least KT showed us what was once an unknown is really there.

 

[Purdman]

All KT showed anybody was how a lying, cheating scumbag can doop a bunch of money hungry pool players with flash and cash.
Purdman

 

[Flex]

I am glad someone stepped up to the plate and I am sure KT lost more than any one pool player did in this venue.

Some people can afford to lose money that others can't. There are lives hanging in the balance here...

 

[Island Drive]

Some people can afford to lose money that others can't. There are lives hanging in the balance here...

It might be presumptions to think another is much better off when a loss is incurred. Its all relative.

 

[Flex]

It might be presumptions to think another is much better off when a loss is incurred. Its all relative.

It is not ALL relative.

The glaring lack of communication from the IPT regarding this non or slow payment issue is very damaging to them. I have a good friend, who plays on the IPT, who just last night had choice words which I will not reproduce here, who told me it's one thing if there's a delay in checks arriving, if that happens, let people know when they will be paid; if there's some other problem, let people know when the problem will be cleared up and when payment can be expected. He told me HE's being given the runaround. Knowing that many poolplayers are not exactly flush with cash and stringing them along like this is bad, bad for the players, bad for the IPT, bad for pool.

When the IPT started up, I got all excited, especially for some friends who either play on the tour or who have been doing their darnedest to get on it. These guys have heart. They also ain't exactly rollin' in da dough, if ya know what I mean. They had to scrape the money together to play in mini-qualifiers or qualifiers. They also played with the expectation they'd be paid at the end of the tournaments...

When people see the stuff that's going on in all this it's not surprising that cynicism grows.

By the way, are you suggesting or implying that KT's apparent losses (we don't really know for sure if he's losing anything on all this) are in any way impacting his personal life the way some of the poolplayer's lives are being hit?


Flex

 

[Island Drive]

By the way, are you suggesting or implying that KT's apparent losses (we don't really know for sure if he's losing anything on all this) are in any way impacting his personal life the way some of the poolplayer's lives are being hit?


Flex[/QUOTE]

When anyone loses it has impact on their lives, how much I have no clue. I have no way of knowing if it impacted both sides the same way. Value of a loss is personal to each individual. To some emotional is greater than physical, and to others financial is worse, it depends on how you choose to process the issues and in turn its effect on you.

 

[Flex]

By the way, are you suggesting or implying that KT's apparent losses (we don't really know for sure if he's losing anything on all this) are in any way impacting his personal life the way some of the poolplayer's lives are being hit?


Flex

When anyone loses it has impact on their lives, how much I have no clue. I have no way of knowing if it impacted both sides the same way. Value of a loss is personal to each individual. To some emotional is greater than physical, and to others financial is worse, it depends on how you choose to process the issues and in turn its effect on you.[/QUOTE]

I know poolplayers who live by making money with their pool cue. If they don't win some days, they don't eat, or at least they don't eat "well". To suggest that the emotional impact of a loss compares in any way with not getting enough to eat is ludicrous. Do you really think KT is hurting more than IPT players who haven't gotten their checks?