New WPA Official Rules of Pool … Learn About All the Changes

[oknazevad]

It's still wrong. If you re-made your EDM go/no-go gauge today based off the 57.20mm as the nominal, rather than 57.15mm exact, the gauge would be worthless.

btw, I found the Wikipedia article. It was worse than I remembered. The metric and inch units with tolerances result in two completely different ball sizes. Something like this can easily creep into a spec, if the person doing it is not very careful (or knowledgeable on the subject), as this wikipedia illustrates.

View attachment 833255
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_(cue_sports)

Thanks for pointing that out. The template there that handles automotive conversions was set to round too much for the sized and tolerances involved. I fixed that.

 

[pocket]

<snip>

Personally, I think the ball should have to move for it to be a foul: if your shirt or arm hair barely touches a ball what's the harm to the game? For the layout of the balls, a light touch cannot be distinguished from no touch, so nothing is different.
<snip>

In my opinion, that is just an invitation for folks to argue.

 

[Rocket354]

Thanks, Stu.



This doesn’t seem to be much of a problem except in the US. Maybe it is time for Americans to learn how to play the game properly. You should not be touching balls you are not supposed to touch. If you start getting penalized for it, you will probably start doing it much less frequently.

Regardless, the American pool leagle systems seem intent on having their own rules anyway. The list of league rule differences is quite long.

I agree with this. I am a big proponent of all-ball fouls, even in league play.

I understand why cue ball-only fouls exists as a rule, as it is deemed to be less demanding and "uptight" to newer players, on which leagues rely to survive. However, the rule is often misunderstood, is actually quite convoluted, and is the second-most cause of arguments in my experience with league play (#1 being cue ball very close to object ball fouls).

The parts that many people forget (and then which cause arguments) are:

1) If the person who moves the ball reactively grabs it and moves it back...that is actually a foul, as they are supposed to let the other player decide whether it moves back and then to where
2) If the person who moved the ball accidentally touches more than one ball, then that's a foul (again, often not called, but then an argument if it is. I've seen entire groups of balls be accidentally rearranged and the casual league players just shrug it off)
3) If the moved ball then gets hit by other balls impacted by the otherwise legal shot, it is a foul (like a broken record: try convincing someone that they moved a ball and it was the one that just got hit and then that's a foul despite "no one ever calling it before")
4) The most esoteric of all: if the legally active balls moved through where the moved ball had been without actually touching it, then it is a foul. Yeah, good luck explaining that to the drunk bozo who ain't nobody's fool.

The entire tree of edge cases and subcategories just complicates the rule and therefore play way too much for my taste. I do recognize and agree that newer players should be welcomed with an accommodating atmosphere and not scared off by meticulous rules. But this compromise rule fails that intent and ultimately accomplishes the exact opposite: it makes the rules and therefore game itself seem overwhelmingly complex, and leads to arguments thereby detracting from any fun.

 

[straightline]

In my opinion, that is just an invitation for folks to argue.

The technicalities are for the - can you say scrubs here? Might be the only visceral action they can manage.

 

[dr_dave]

I agree with this. I am a big proponent of all-ball fouls, even in league play.

I understand why cue ball-only fouls exists as a rule, as it is deemed to be less demanding and "uptight" to newer players, on which leagues rely to survive. However, the rule is often misunderstood, is actually quite convoluted, and is the second-most cause of arguments in my experience with league play (#1 being cue ball very close to object ball fouls).

The parts that many people forget (and then which cause arguments) are:

1) If the person who moves the ball reactively grabs it and moves it back...that is actually a foul, as they are supposed to let the other player decide whether it moves back and then to where
2) If the person who moved the ball accidentally touches more than one ball, then that's a foul (again, often not called, but then an argument if it is. I've seen entire groups of balls be accidentally rearranged and the casual league players just shrug it off)
3) If the moved ball then gets hit by other balls impacted by the otherwise legal shot, it is a foul (like a broken record: try convincing someone that they moved a ball and it was the one that just got hit and then that's a foul despite "no one ever calling it before")
4) The most esoteric of all: if the legally active balls moved through where the moved ball had been without actually touching it, then it is a foul. Yeah, good luck explaining that to the drunk bozo who ain't nobody's fool.

The entire tree of edge cases and subcategories just complicates the rule and therefore play way too much for my taste. I do recognize and agree that newer players should be welcomed with an accommodating atmosphere and not scared off by meticulous rules. But this compromise rule fails that intent and ultimately accomplishes the exact opposite: it makes the rules and therefore game itself seem overwhelmingly complex, and leads to arguments thereby detracting from any fun.

Excellent post.

 

[dr_dave]

They still need to play “properly” under the rules of the specific league. I actually agree that amateur leagues like the APA should have as few fouls and rules as possible to keep the game more fun and with less chances for disagreements. That’s probably partly why the APA is already so successful (along with excellent marketing). In addition to all the other things they already allow, maybe the APA should also start allowing double hits, scoop jump shots, cue-lift shots, creative mechanical-bridge shots, kneeling-on-the-table shots, etc! Just let them play and have fun.

They could also have "No Ball Fouls." If you are allowed to touch or move an OB by mistake, why should it be a foul to touch or move the CB by mistake? Also, why should it be a foul if you touch or move a ball by mistake when you have CB in hand?

 

[TrxR]

My problem with current ball fouls only is that a person can bet too used to it and it will really mess you up if you play somewhere that's all ball fouls.

I know our local league( that doesn't exist now as the pool hall closed) they used to play cue ball fouls all season, but when finals started it went to all ball fouls. It really seem to trip people up.

The local Legion league was the same way except when playing the tournaments it was all ball fouls. They decided to start playing all ball fouls all the time so they would be used to it when going to the tournaments.

 

[straightline]

My problem with current ball fouls only is that a person can bet too used to it and it will really mess you up if you play somewhere that's all ball fouls.

I know our local league( that doesn't exist now as the pool hall closed) they used to play cue ball fouls all season, but when finals started it went to all ball fouls. It really seem to trip people up.

The local Legion league was the same way except when playing the tournaments it was all ball fouls. They decided to start playing all ball fouls all the time so they would be used to it when going to the tournaments.

You gotta be fanatical about your quality of play. All fouls are just an extra element of care a player must develop. If you're serious, always practice to the highest standard.

 

[dr_dave]

I agree with this. I am a big proponent of all-ball fouls, even in league play.

I understand why cue ball-only fouls exists as a rule, as it is deemed to be less demanding and "uptight" to newer players, on which leagues rely to survive. However, the rule is often misunderstood, is actually quite convoluted, and is the second-most cause of arguments in my experience with league play (#1 being cue ball very close to object ball fouls).

The parts that many people forget (and then which cause arguments) are:

1) If the person who moves the ball reactively grabs it and moves it back...that is actually a foul, as they are supposed to let the other player decide whether it moves back and then to where
2) If the person who moved the ball accidentally touches more than one ball, then that's a foul (again, often not called, but then an argument if it is. I've seen entire groups of balls be accidentally rearranged and the casual league players just shrug it off)
3) If the moved ball then gets hit by other balls impacted by the otherwise legal shot, it is a foul (like a broken record: try convincing someone that they moved a ball and it was the one that just got hit and then that's a foul despite "no one ever calling it before")
4) The most esoteric of all: if the legally active balls moved through where the moved ball had been without actually touching it, then it is a foul. Yeah, good luck explaining that to the drunk bozo who ain't nobody's fool.

The entire tree of edge cases and subcategories just complicates the rule and therefore play way too much for my taste. I do recognize and agree that newer players should be welcomed with an accommodating atmosphere and not scared off by meticulous rules. But this compromise rule fails that intent and ultimately accomplishes the exact opposite: it makes the rules and therefore game itself seem overwhelmingly complex, and leads to arguments thereby detracting from any fun.

And what about:

5) Your opponent has the right to reposition the moved balls pretty much wherever they want. Talk about the potential for arguments and bad feelings.

When I play in VNEA league with "CB fouls only" rules, it doesn't bother me at all if my opponent places moved balls in worse places for me. I just "man up" and think: "Well, I deserved that for touching balls I shouldn't be touching."

 

[Rocket354]

And what about:

5) Your opponent has the right to reposition the moved balls pretty much wherever they want. Talk about the potential for arguments and bad feelings.

agreed. That was included in my #1 above, but probably deserves to be split out into its own list item for the the reasons you elaborated.