New WPA Official Rules of Pool … Learn About All the Changes

[iusedtoberich]

How about some behind the scenes on the rule updating process? Who is in charge of it? How many people have a voice and/or vote? Is it done every x years? Or at random times? Where did these rule changes come from? Where did the one hole and banks addition come from?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here's what you are going to hear.

How can they still be available if none are on the table?

Because it is the explicit rule.

There is also the explicit rule that most miscues are accepted as good strokes even though nearly all of them involve two or more contacts of stick-to-ball.

the rulings against sanjin / fortunski had nothing to do with scoop jump shots being illegal, but rather the ferrule touching the cb....

While I agree that the ferrule may have touched the cue ball, those shots were more or less standard miscues, which are condoned explicitly by the rules.

 

[kitsap]

Dr. Dave, outstanding as always.

Thanks to both you and Bob Jewett for standing up in the middle of this discussion.

 

[skip100]

I have never once in my life seen a game that got down to no solids or stripes with the table still open. Talk about an edge case. And now there is no excuse for not understanding what to do. Great job Bob & Dave

 

[Bob Jewett]

How about some behind the scenes on the rule updating process? Who is in charge of it? How many people have a voice and/or vote? Is it done every x years? Or at random times? Where did these rule changes come from? Where did the one hole and banks addition come from?

I was the chair. Dr. Dave was one of the North American (BCA) selections and the EPBF head referee (Roman Mirakhmedov) was also on the committee. There was a total of about 10 others from five continents. The others had occasional inputs but were less active in the discussions. Roman brought the viewpoint of a ref who has spent a lot of time in the trenches. Roman also handled the final edit and fixed a bunch of problems with the master Word document.

The discussion mostly occurred in a private AZB forum so there will be a permanent record of the reasons and problems.

As of about 2000, the WPA set a policy to make revisions no more frequently than every five years. This was perhaps an overreaction to what happened previously with changes appearing every year with little apparent control or consideration. The long delay this time was due to the WPA not having a rules committee. It was established only about a year and a half ago.

I think the WPA Board wants changes about every three years from now on.

I don't recall any actual vote in the Committee on any change during the discussions. We managed to reach some kind of consensus on all the changes.

For the one pocket, I wrote a WSR-style set of rules a couple of years ago for a Billiards Digest column. The WSR rules for one pocket are shorter than the onepocket.org rules because they start with all of the general rules and definitions that are used for all other games. Recently Predator asked the WPA refs to handle the one pocket and bank pool demo events in Las Vegas, so I put together a set of bank pool rules, which are a lot like the rules for one pocket. They were then easy enough to add to the final draft. I suppose those two games are the most likely to have errors.

 

[dr_dave]

Great stuff as usual.

Thanks.

Just for shits-n-giggle you outta do a tounge in cheek vid on 'beer bar' rules, their implementation and possible fisticuffs arising from such use.

Done:

And much more info on this topic can be found here:

"bar rules" resource page​

 

[iusedtoberich]

@Bob Jewett

This has been messed up for at least 20 years. Hardly any of it makes sense, including the wording, and including the tolerances. I think someone re-typed it into a word processor decades ago (from the BCA published book prior), and all the tolerances have been messed up since. If you'd like help figuring out what it was supposed to be, I'd be happy to.

 

[dr_dave]

Of course Player A loses

What the score according to WPA 10-0 or 10-7?

WPA does not have a "score" for 8-ball games. You either win or you lose.

Maybe you are thinking about APA leagues? If so, I can't help you there.

In VNEA, the score depends only on what balls remain on the table after the game is over, so it would be 10-0.

 

[dr_dave]

the rulings against sanjin / fortunski had nothing to do with scoop jump shots being illegal, but rather the ferrule touching the cb. technically ref was correct, but it's a rare example of what's technically a foul not being seen as a foul in the pool culture. a good rule clarification imo

The tip, ferrule, or shaft also contacts the CB with secondary contact during miscue shots, but they are not treated as fouls either (unless they are intentional to achieve some advantage, or if they secondary contact is clearly visible as with a trapping follow miscue). For more info and lots of examples, see:

miscue resource page
​

Scoop jump shots were and are still meant to be treated just like miscues; although, things are much more clear now.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Which will take away 5 seconds from every shot... On a 30 second shot clock, that is not trivial. I can see it happening in 1P often.

No. You can see when a ball has recently moved to a hanging position. That's the only case in which play has to be suspended.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I just checked the WPA site, it does not have the new ruleset.

 

[dr_dave]

I have never once in my life seen a game that got down to no solids or stripes with the table still open. Talk about an edge case. And now there is no excuse for not understanding what to do.

I haven't seen anything even close to this, but the rules must as many situations as possible because SH#T happens.

Great job Bob & Dave

Thanks.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I was the chair. Dr. Dave was one of the North American (BCA) selections and the EPBF head referee (Roman Mirakhmedov) was also on the committee. There was a total of about 10 others from five continents. The others had occasional inputs but were less active in the discussions. Roman brought the viewpoint of a ref who has spent a lot of time in the trenches. Roman also handled the final edit and fixed a bunch of problems with the master Word document.

The discussion mostly occurred in a private AZB forum so there will be a permanent record of the reasons and problems.

As of about 2000, the WPA set a policy to make revisions no more frequently than every five years. This was perhaps an overreaction to what happened previously with changes appearing every year with little apparent control or consideration. The long delay this time was due to the WPA not having a rules committee. It was established only about a year and a half ago.

I think the WPA Board wants changes about every three years from now on.

I don't recall any actual vote in the Committee on any change during the discussions. We managed to reach some kind of consensus on all the changes.

For the one pocket, I wrote a WSR-style set of rules a couple of years ago for a Billiards Digest column. The WSR rules for one pocket are shorter than the onepocket.org rules because they start with all of the general rules and definitions that are used for all other games. Recently Predator asked the WPA refs to handle the one pocket and bank pool demo events in Las Vegas, so I put together a set of bank pool rules, which are a lot like the rules for one pocket. They were then easy enough to add to the final draft. I suppose those two games are the most likely to have errors.

Thanks for some behind the scenes looks.

 

[dr_dave]

I was the chair. Dr. Dave was one of the North American (BCA) selections and the EPBF head referee (Roman Mirakhmedov) was also on the committee. There was a total of about 10 others from five continents. The others had occasional inputs but were less active in the discussions. Roman brought the viewpoint of a ref who has spent a lot of time in the trenches. Roman also handled the final edit and fixed a bunch of problems with the master Word document.

The discussion mostly occurred in a private AZB forum so there will be a permanent record of the reasons and problems.

As of about 2000, the WPA set a policy to make revisions no more frequently than every five years. This was perhaps an overreaction to what happened previously with changes appearing every year with little apparent control or consideration. The long delay this time was due to the WPA not having a rules committee. It was established only about a year and a half ago.

I think the WPA Board wants changes about every three years from now on.

I don't recall any actual vote in the Committee on any change during the discussions. We managed to reach some kind of consensus on all the changes.

For the one pocket, I wrote a WSR-style set of rules a couple of years ago for a Billiards Digest column. The WSR rules for one pocket are shorter than the onepocket.org rules because they start with all of the general rules and definitions that are used for all other games. Recently Predator asked the WPA refs to handle the one pocket and bank pool demo events in Las Vegas, so I put together a set of bank pool rules, which are a lot like the rules for one pocket. They were then easy enough to add to the final draft. I suppose those two games are the most likely to have errors.

Committee members also got input from people with a wide range of backgrounds and roles in the billiard industry.

 

[dr_dave]

@Bob Jewett

This has been messed up for at least 20 years. Hardly any of it makes sense, including the wording, and including the tolerances. I think someone re-typed it into a word processor decades ago (from the BCA published book prior), and all the tolerances have been messed up since. If you'd like help figuring out what it was supposed to be, I'd be happy to.

View attachment 833188

We will definitely work hard to modernize, improve, and expand the equipment specifications document in the next round of updates. There are many problems there.

 

[dr_dave]

I just checked the WPA site, it does not have the new ruleset.

They plan to post the new files very soon, but we don't know when. For now, the pre-release versions are available here:

pool rules resource page
​

Here are the direct links to pertinent documents:

new WPA Rules and Regulations with a Summary of the Most Recent Changes​

 

[Bob Jewett]

WPA does not have a "score" for 8-ball games. You either win or you lose. ...

I think the BCAPL -- which is not the BCA -- does have a points system for scoring 8-ball that is used in some leagues. Might be on the CSI website.

 

[Fore Rail]

WPA does not have a "score" for 8-ball games. You either win or you lose.

Maybe you are thinking about APA leagues? If so, I can't help you there.

In VNEA, the score depends only on what balls remain on the table after the game is over, so it would be 10-0.

I was talking strictly hypothetical with a WPA score. Perhaps I should have mentioned that.

I have no clue what APA would do as I only have played VNEA & BCAPL.

 

[iusedtoberich]

We will definitely work hard to modernize, improve, and expand the equipment specifications document in the next round of updates. There are many problems there.

Keep original units correct. Pool ball diameter balls are in inches, for example. I’ve seen articles where they used mm, rounded to 57.2mm, (with zero mention of the inch size) and then people reading that article think 57.2mm is the specification. Which is very wrong.

I actually think it was on Wikipedia of all places. From memory.

 

[Fore Rail]

Here's what CSI says on the subject. These rules are used by the BCAPL & USAPL

2-6 Establishing Groups

2. If all balls of either group are pocketed on the break or illegally pocketed before groups are established, either player may legally shoot the 8-ball during their inning. You win the game if you legally pocket the 8-ball on such a shot.

That's all that needed to be said. WPA now follows along with CSI in regards to this rule.

Not 100% sure if the VNEA sees is this way or not.