Non forfeit at White Diamonds - Whats up with that!!!

[JAM]

Yes , with no squabbles , unless you get mad at yourself for dumping.

Mike Zuglan of the Joss Tour used to have something where the first person that got knocked out of the tournament gets to have a second shot at getting back in. He only allowed it for that one player.

 

[punter]

Going along with the horse racing analogies, if a horse scratches you get a refund. So, if you wanted to make it a rule in a calcutta, you could say if aplayer forfeits(no shows) his FIRST match, you just refund the money to the calcutta buyer. Yes, that could cause some complaints but is an option.

However, if the player forfeits a later match, no refund, it's just like a horse pulling up out of a race(for whatever reason).

 

[scooter_banks]

If the side pot pays 8 places , and you finish in one of those spots , based on your buy in and order of finish you'll drag out a certain percentage of the side pot money.

That is a little better. But why are the buy ins different amounts?

 

[david(tx)]

That is a little better. But why are the buy ins different amounts?

Incentive to get more money in the side pot , and give people with less money a chance at making more.Say player A is a pro , and player B is a shortstop. Player A probably has a better chance of getting someone else to fund his buy in , while player B has to fund himself, the lower buy in's let him in on some action , and like the long shot who buys himself in the calcutta at the minimum , and gets in the money, he makes a good score.I'm not sure how many buy in levels you could have before it becomes a headache , but it would be a time saver , and in most places , legal.

 

[alstl]

Forfeit him. One reason tournaments drag on so long is this type of stuff.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

My opinion is that you should never pay $4000 for a calcutta. Go buy a car or put a down payment on a house. Who wants to risk losing that money because a player forgot to set his alarm?

 

[Juice]

I agree in principle! But, how many pro pool players have an extra 4,000 laying around?
He went for 4000!
Kd
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Most players that come to this tournament bring enough to buy there half or get sent with money to. The money in this tournament is in the calcutta.

Thing is Chris (the owner of White Diamonds) had agreed to disqualify Jesse. Kevin (the player who he was matched against) didn't want to take the win. Nobody said "Hey Kevin the player didn't show up what do you want to do?" When Kevin was told that Jesse would have to forfeit he told the directors not to do it to just play other matches until Jesse showed up. If it got to a point where they were holding up the tournament then he would take it but he would rather play the match instead.

It's a shame you are having to explain yourself on your actions trying to support the players decision that he wanted. It should be the players decision who put hisself in the tournament if he wants to play the match or not. No one elses just like if the shoe was on the other foot and Jesse was giving the option if Kevin was late to disqualify him then we would not have this thread. The guy did not want to win like that he actually wanted to earn his win and not take the easy route.

I understand Kevin wanting to do this. The problem is, it's just not fair to the other players who have to follow the rules or get penalized. Also, some of the other players in the tournament are not there to play a big name player but to get the cash; and in that case, it's not fair to them either.

I like the way Jesse handles himself so I don't have an ax to grind, except that rules are rules and they should be the same for everyone, NO EXCEPTIONS. First and foremost though, tournament directors should never ask a player what they want to do. Decisions like these should be made by the rules, not by which way the wind is blowing today.

I was up there and Kevin told Ashley not to disqualify him. He never gave her the chance to because he did not want to win like that. That is his choice he paid his money on time and deserves his choice to be accepted by the tournament director because it is only fair.

I totally loved the way Chris explained the rules and I know he got his point across and expect he will have this forfeit ruling figured out for the next tourney.

I respect this and am sure some new rules will be put in place. I can see your point on this and do see now you were not bashing the decision. Good points brother see you next time!

Most of the calcutta railbirds don't give the player a bone even when the player wins.

The player doesn't owe any allegiance to the calcutta. That is there for the pure enjoyment of backers, railbirds, and the viewing public.

Everybody should know this, and if they don't, well, it's buyer beware anytime you buy anyone in a calcutta. You risk losing your dough.

It would be like me going to the horse races and asking for them to pay me back for my expenses at the track if my horse is scratched. Gimme a break!

Without us calcutta railbirds or backers there would be limited fun at any pool tournament. Most people do not travel hours and hours to tournaments because they want to watch a pool tournament. They want to see action, get in action, or cause some action. I guess you know this already and just think pool is fun without it because you do not participate in this fun because is hard to do from behind a computer.

I will be the first person to tell you and you can verify with anyone that knows me or seen me if I bet on someone or buy someone they get the jelly. Even if my player does not make any money I throw them something. Even if I am betting on the side and the player does not know it I throw them something. It is the right thing to do and believe that in my heart cause I am not rotten.

You can feel free to ask Stan Shuffett, Chip Compton, Jesse Bowman, Jason Klatt, Joey Gray, Johnathan Pinegar, David G, Gary Abood, Chris Bartrum, Jeremy Jones, George Breedlove, James Davis JR, Benny Conway JR, Jamie Baraks, Warren Kiamco, and Brandon Shuff to verify this. I have nothing to hide and my word is solid. ( I can put more people in this list if you like in case you never seen any of these players.) So remember this before you talk about the calcutta railbirds and backers. We have to becareful because of the rotten players who try to take advantage of the calcutta buyers and backers. Have a nice day scrabble!

 

[RealLive]

POW!!!! ship it!

 

[pt109]

It is the right thing to do and believe that in my heart cause I am not rotten.

Have a nice day scrabble!

Ah, what wonders JAM hath wrought.....
...we now have a poster who can spell 'rotten'

JAM, JoeyA, and Sean have made us all better writers.
I now believe in serial commas....and I'm not afraid to use them.

 

[jersey jer]

i skimmed through this and see some people saying the calcutta money should back to the buyer?

it cant.

every bid on other players after this bid is based on how much total was in the calcutta. if the guy in the calcutta before me goes off for 4 g's i am more like likely to pay more for myself or someone else because the pot is 4 g's more.. the pot odds are that much better and it affects every other decision made afterwards.

the sad thing is the guy who paid the 4 g's has to be SOL and if it was me I'd be looking for the the horse who didnt show. at that point its between the buyer and the horse. especially if the horse knew he was throwing away my 4 thousand by not showing.

 

[elvicash]

You can feel free to ask Stan Shuffett, Chip Compton, Jesse Bowman, Jason Klatt, Joey Gray, Johnathan Pinegar, David G, Gary Abood, Chris Bartrum, Jeremy Jones, George Breedlove, James Davis JR, Benny Conway JR, Jamie Baraks, Warren Kiamco, and Brandon Shuff to verify this. I have nothing to hide and my word is solid. ( I can put more people in this list if you like in case you never seen any of these players.) So remember this before you talk about the calcutta railbirds and backers. We have to becareful because of the rotten players who try to take advantage of the calcutta buyers and backers. Have a nice day scrabble!

I hope anyone who thinks they can bash Juice will hold off and think for a second before they do, Juice is a man who is willing to put his cash where his heart is and will ship the cash. He picked the winners in a huge calcutta and paid for them at steep prices. I think he bought SVB and the Chip/Joey team plus quite a few others. So anyone who is willing to bid 6k in a calcuatta on a single player is a genuine gambler. He is also pool knowledgable and that is the kinds of railbird that is the blood of pool action, a gambler who will send in the cash. So Juice buddy don't let the AZ haters and spell check nazis get u down.

 

[bmsclayton]

no offense

I hope anyone who thinks they can bash Juice will hold off and think for a second before they do, Juice is a man who is willing to put his cash where his heart is and will ship the cash. He picked the winners in a huge calcutta and paid for them at steep prices. I think he bought SVB and the Chip/Joey team plus quite a few others. So anyone who is willing to bid 6k in a calcuatta on a single player is a genuine gambler. He is also pool knowledgable and that is the kinds of railbird that is the blood of pool action, a gambler who will send in the cash. So Juice buddy don't let the AZ haters and spell check nazis get u down.

but i have been arguing against your theory that jesse should have been forfeited since the beginning because of Juice and others like him. And on top of it your just like him! What if Brian Groce was forfeited for being late after you spent 2k on him. What if he was one minute late. Or outside to get away from the smoke. You would not have been back. They need people like us to make the whole thing work. It is a huge company that needs a place, a seller, players, backers, buyers, etc. You basically just admitted you were wrong for starting this thread.

 

[bmsclayton]

I do agree but

i skimmed through this and see some people saying the calcutta money should back to the buyer?

it cant.

every bid on other players after this bid is based on how much total was in the calcutta. if the guy in the calcutta before me goes off for 4 g's i am more like likely to pay more for myself or someone else because the pot is 4 g's more.. the pot odds are that much better and it affects every other decision made afterwards.

the sad thing is the guy who paid the 4 g's has to be SOL and if it was me I'd be looking for the the horse who didnt show. at that point its between the buyer and the horse. especially if the horse knew he was throwing away my 4 thousand by not showing.

You can't just dump the entire loss on the calcutta buyer of a top player or the entire calcutta will die in the future. It is not just about this one calcutta. You can afford to piss off one player, there is 50 more to replace him. their is not 50 more of juice or the guy from Ohio or anywhere else to juice up the calcutta that much

 

[elvicash]

but i have been arguing against your theory that jesse should have been forfeited since the beginning because of Juice and others like him. And on top of it your just like him! What if Brian Groce was forfeited for being late after you spent 2k on him. What if he was one minute late. Or outside to get away from the smoke. You would not have been back. They need people like us to make the whole thing work. It is a huge company that needs a place, a seller, players, backers, buyers, etc. You basically just admitted you were wrong for starting this thread.

I don't think so Brendan obviously you have not read what I wrote. I said I did not know what happened to the Jesse forfeit as to the exact details. I said that Jesse was called to play, got put on the clock and then half an hour later they called him to play. I did not know exactly why he was not forfeited. Chris said be late you will be fortified if you are not here to play.

Our group stayed in the pool room and if we were not ready we would have been forfeited we had one of our group go on the clock the rest of us were looking for him and got him to his match. We did we had to do to not be forfeited and if we were forfeited I expect we would have hated it but we would have took it as they give you plenty of time.

All I was saying in my Juice thread is let Juice have his say and dont give him grief for being a sweater or a railbird or a calcutta buyer or a bad speller. Anyone who pumps as much in to the calcutta and pumps it up by his bids has a true right to his opinion.

I feel like I have right to talk about this event I traveld a long distance put in a good player spent some cash to do all that and I have to say I am still very positive about but this event. The non-forfeit was unexpected and many players thought it was wrong but it came down a player to being allowed to waive a forfeit I bet it is not allowed next tourney but if it is Chris will explain that in the players meeting. We drove a thousand miles, sent money in to the calcutta and had a good time. I just want to know the rules before we play so there is no misunderstandings along the way.

I personalty do not think a player should be held up for his part of a Calcutta no show/forfiet or just plain dog it off a Calcutta is a side pot and you take what you get as buyer/bidder.

However I started this thread to talk about forfeits not to talk about calcuttas. I also do not care to hear people bash people who put theirs on the line and are a big part of an event like this White Diamonds calcutta. But this is AZ I guess bashing is something anyone who posts here has to learn to take.

 

[decent dennis]

Most players that come to this tournament bring enough to buy there half or get sent with money to. The money in this tournament is in the calcutta.



It's a shame you are having to explain yourself on your actions trying to support the players decision that he wanted. It should be the players decision who put hisself in the tournament if he wants to play the match or not. No one elses just like if the shoe was on the other foot and Jesse was giving the option if Kevin was late to disqualify him then we would not have this thread. The guy did not want to win like that he actually wanted to earn his win and not take the easy route.




I was up there and Kevin told Ashley not to disqualify him. He never gave her the chance to because he did not want to win like that. That is his choice he paid his money on time and deserves his choice to be accepted by the tournament director because it is only fair.



I respect this and am sure some new rules will be put in place. I can see your point on this and do see now you were not bashing the decision. Good points brother see you next time!






Without us calcutta railbirds or backers there would be limited fun at any pool tournament. Most people do not travel hours and hours to tournaments because they want to watch a pool tournament. They want to see action, get in action, or cause some action. I guess you know this already and just think pool is fun without it because you do not participate in this fun because is hard to do from behind a computer.

I will be the first person to tell you and you can verify with anyone that knows me or seen me if I bet on someone or buy someone they get the jelly. Even if my player does not make any money I throw them something. Even if I am betting on the side and the player does not know it I throw them something. It is the right thing to do and believe that in my heart cause I am not rotten.

You can feel free to ask Stan Shuffett, Chip Compton, Jesse Bowman, Jason Klatt, Joey Gray, Johnathan Pinegar, David G, Gary Abood, Chris Bartrum, Jeremy Jones, George Breedlove, James Davis JR, Benny Conway JR, Jamie Baraks, Warren Kiamco, and Brandon Shuff to verify this. I have nothing to hide and my word is solid. ( I can put more people in this list if you like in case you never seen any of these players.) So remember this before you talk about the calcutta railbirds and backers. We have to becareful because of the rotten players who try to take advantage of the calcutta buyers and backers. Have a nice day scrabble!

No way ,no how does Kevin get to make rulings in a tournament that has officials running it. Doesn't matter who paid his entry fee.

 

[cuenut]

Either there is a time requirement or there isn't. At least that is how it should be. Why set a limit if you aren't going to follow it. Amazing how Kevin knew he had to be there to play his match along with 99% of the field. It is also hard to believe that nobody in the room had Jesse's cell phone number to call him and let him know his match was called. If he knew he was going to be late and called to let them know why, maybe, but just because Kevin didn't want to take the forfeit, I don't agree. I am sure others were forfeited without that concession. That is why they are rules.

 

[Brozif]

1. ANY PLAYER, regardless of who they are, if they're not there by the end of the time allotted to start their match...it's a forfeit!! No choices, no skipping to other matches, NO EXCEPTIONS!!

2. If I am purchased in a calcutta, I have absolutely no obligation to the individual that bought me! I didn't force anyone to buy me! Only time I feel obligated to anyone is if someone else paid my entry fee.

3. If a player pays their own entry fee, then they have paid for the right to play how ever they want. It's their decision whether they want to try to do the best they can or give up if things are not going their way. They paid for that choice.

There's no way in hell, that someone is going to tell me that I have to reimburse someone because they bought me in the calcutta and I didn't show up or they feel I didn't try my hardest to win! Not my problem! Then again, I have never not shown up or not tried my absolute hardest to win a tournament that I paid money to get into. I guess that's just an honor and pride thing with me.

 

[cardiac kid]

Either there is a time requirement or there isn't. At least that is how it should be. Why set a limit if you aren't going to follow it. Amazing how Kevin knew he had to be there to play his match along with 99% of the field. It is also hard to believe that nobody in the room had Jesse's cell phone number to call him and let him know his match was called. If he knew he was going to be late and called to let them know why, maybe, but just because Kevin didn't want to take the forfeit, I don't agree. I am sure others were forfeited without that concession. That is why they are rules.

Scott,

Never going to change. Some players will always be given an advantage. This thread has beaten it to death and correctly so. No different for me as to seeding a tournament. Some players always want an advantage and as long as there are apologists, nothing will change. Period!!! What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Lyn

 

[Juice]

I hope anyone who thinks they can bash Juice will hold off and think for a second before they do, Juice is a man who is willing to put his cash where his heart is and will ship the cash. He picked the winners in a huge calcutta and paid for them at steep prices. I think he bought SVB and the Chip/Joey team plus quite a few others. So anyone who is willing to bid 6k in a calcuatta on a single player is a genuine gambler. He is also pool knowledgable and that is the kinds of railbird that is the blood of pool action, a gambler who will send in the cash. So Juice buddy don't let the AZ haters and spell check nazis get u down.

Thanks for the kind words but I am just a sweater brother like anyone else who likes to bet on things. Appreciate the backup for sure!

but i have been arguing against your theory that jesse should have been forfeited since the beginning because of Juice and others like him. And on top of it your just like him! What if Brian Groce was forfeited for being late after you spent 2k on him. What if he was one minute late. Or outside to get away from the smoke. You would not have been back. They need people like us to make the whole thing work. It is a huge company that needs a place, a seller, players, backers, buyers, etc. You basically just admitted you were wrong for starting this thread.

I have been in this situation before. I bought Timmy Heath for $1200 in the first calcutta about four tournaments ago. He went to the room after the calcutta and got forfeited. I know that this is a risk when you put your money on someone you are not with or know. So you have to put that in the equation when you buy someone. I have been back to every tournament since then and never *****ed at anyone not even Timmy. I consider this gambling and just like when you post the money on the light money is gone and if you get it back is like a bonus.

You can't just dump the entire loss on the calcutta buyer of a top player or the entire calcutta will die in the future. It is not just about this one calcutta. You can afford to piss off one player, there is 50 more to replace him. their is not 50 more of juice or the guy from Ohio or anywhere else to juice up the calcutta that much

Most of the people who come to this tournament to buy someone know there is a chance you take that something like this can happen. Just like with Gabe in Ok City ,OK who did not show up the second day. The guy had food poisoning and showed up last night and gave the guy who bought him some money and apologized. Every tournament is gambling and every calcutta is gambling. You cannot fault anyone if your player screws up because that is the risk you take by putting your money on someone who is not yourself.

I don't think so Brendan obviously you have not read what I wrote. I said I did not know what happened to the Jesse forfeit as to the exact details. I said that Jesse was called to play, got put on the clock and then half an hour later they called him to play. I did not know exactly why he was not forfeited. Chris said be late you will be fortified if you are not here to play.

Our group stayed in the pool room and if we were not ready we would have been forfeited we had one of our group go on the clock the rest of us were looking for him and got him to his match. We did we had to do to not be forfeited and if we were forfeited I expect we would have hated it but we would have took it as they give you plenty of time.

All I was saying in my Juice thread is let Juice have his say and dont give him grief for being a sweater or a railbird or a calcutta buyer or a bad speller. Anyone who pumps as much in to the calcutta and pumps it up by his bids has a true right to his opinion.

I feel like I have right to talk about this event I traveld a long distance put in a good player spent some cash to do all that and I have to say I am still very positive about but this event. The non-forfeit was unexpected and many players thought it was wrong but it came down a player to being allowed to waive a forfeit I bet it is not allowed next tourney but if it is Chris will explain that in the players meeting. We drove a thousand miles, sent money in to the calcutta and had a good time. I just want to know the rules before we play so there is no misunderstandings along the way.

I personalty do not think a player should be held up for his part of a Calcutta no show/forfiet or just plain dog it off a Calcutta is a side pot and you take what you get as buyer/bidder.

However I started this thread to talk about forfeits not to talk about calcuttas. I also do not care to hear people bash people who put theirs on the line and are a big part of an event like this White Diamonds calcutta. But this AZ I guys bashing is something anyone who posts here has to learn to take.

This is a great post and I did talk to Chris last night. There is going to be some changes made and some new rules over this controversy. You explained this post very well and as we all know it is hard to do on a message board because things get taken out of content so easy and people can read things the wrong way. Chris does not read az very often but will answer anyones call at any time. Guy works two jobs and runs a pool hall so kind of hard to do all that and find time to monitor the forum.

I agree with you as well in how you put it that it is not fair for you to leave the pool room because you follow the rules and one player did not. I know for a fact Chris respects people who follow the rules because it just makes it fair for everyone. You are also right is unfair for your player to sit and wait to do everything right then another one leave to hold up the tournament to get a pass. I can assure you that changes will be made and rules will be forced about this matter. Chris explained in his rules that the player will get two warnings then the third one will be put on the clock for fifteen minutes. Yes Jesse did exceed this and Chris told Ashley to disqualify him.

When Ashley told Kevin the player asked ashley was there another match to play and reschedule his. She did that and not because was Jesse Bowman but because that is what the player asked them to do. We all know if Jesse asked them to do this and was the local player who was late we would of never heard of this issue. Bottom line is that Chris and Ashley did not give Jesse a pass because of who he was and how much he went for in the calcutta. They did it because they thought standing behind the player who showed up on schedule, did everything right, and bought himself in the calcutta was the right thing to do and was still playing first round matches. This is what the player wanted and I have to stand behind there decision for that because that says alot in my opinion. I can assure you the next tournament and after this will not fly. Chris wants this tournament to remain sucessful and he respects everyone for coming to his tournament and participating. I can assure you if he had time to shake everyones hand and tell you personally he would because he is one of the most greatful people for anyone who shows him support. I know at first when I seen this thread I was kind of angry but now that you explained it like this I do see the light. Good post Elvi!

Either there is a time requirement or there isn't. At least that is how it should be. Why set a limit if you aren't going to follow it. Amazing how Kevin knew he had to be there to play his match along with 99% of the field. It is also hard to believe that nobody in the room had Jesse's cell phone number to call him and let him know his match was called. If he knew he was going to be late and called to let them know why, maybe, but just because Kevin didn't want to take the forfeit, I don't agree. I am sure others were forfeited without that concession. That is why they are rules.

To my knowledge no players were forfeited that were put on the clock. Sometimes it takes situations like this to learn from to make the tournament better. Everyone here has posted there opinion and most of the people in this thread have been to this tournament and participated so feel that is fair to respect there wishes on the changes to be enforced. I am sure Chris is going to take care of this and make sure a issue like this does not happen again. There is not one person on this message board that has not been to a tournament and did not agree with something. It is how the tournament promoter finds a way to make sure it does not happen again and I know Chris will make that happen.

 

[cardiac kid]

Juice,

Don't think I've ever had the pleasure of meeting you. Just reading your last post gives me great insight into you and your persona. You are a class guy! Pool needs more people like you.

Lyn