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It's all about integrity. I have played many who lack integrity. They know they fouled, yet they refuse to call it on themselves. I do let my opponent know that I think they fouled, but it's still up to them to call it on themselves.
If I foul, I call it on myself EVERY time. If someone calls one on me I will not oppose it. I will step away and let them shoot.
It's a game. I have integrity. That's all that matters to me.
If I foul, I call it on myself EVERY time. If someone calls one on me I will not oppose it. I will step away and let them shoot.
It's a game. I have integrity. That's all that matters to me.
Everyone in chat called foul before the announcers even mentioned the foul and then the commentators said that Borana asked if it was a good hit and they said OMG said it was too close to call. Borana didn't pursue it any further and that's when the commentators pointed out that ball in hand wasn't going to get her out of the rack anyway.
I call foul out loud as soon as the foul happens. I also will jump up and say, "no rail?" as the balls are moving and point at the ball that has any chance of hitting the rail as it's rolling because I've found if you wait until the dust settles and ask then the opponent sometimes was never even watching for that foul.
I call foul out loud as soon as the foul happens. I also will jump up and say, "no rail?" as the balls are moving and point at the ball that has any chance of hitting the rail as it's rolling because I've found if you wait until the dust settles and ask then the opponent sometimes was never even watching for that foul.
If I am the sitting player I wait for my opponent to indicate a foul,most often they will grab the CB and roll it towards me or hand it to me.If it is an obvious foul and I believe they are aware of it I just pick up the CB and complete my turn at the table.If I think that they might be unaware of the foul or not willing to concede a foul occured then we simply discuss why I think it was a foul but in the end it is the shooters call.
When I commit a foul I either leave the table to my opponent or hand them the CB.Sometimes I foul and am not aware of it untill my opponent points out what he/she saw.
When I commit a foul I either leave the table to my opponent or hand them the CB.Sometimes I foul and am not aware of it untill my opponent points out what he/she saw.
http://www.ustream.tv/user/ontherail/videos
second video down at 2:10 minutes you be the judge. The six would not have moved like it did had it not been hit first but I give Melinda the benefit of the doubt that she is just lacking this knowledge or was too tired to realize. In all reality ball in hand would have been bigger than I'd thought.
Just asked Melinda about it and she said that she told Borana that she didn't see it and told Borana if she thought she fouled then take ball in hand and Borana didn't take it. Good sportsmanship by both players imo.
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If I commit a foul I will always call it on myself.
If I see a foul and think the other player is not going to admit it, I usually just grab the cue ball first and then call the foul, as it seems like they are more likely to admit the foul after I have grabbed the cue ball, then if I ask if it was a foul before I grab the ball.
If I see a foul and think the other player is not going to admit it, I usually just grab the cue ball first and then call the foul, as it seems like they are more likely to admit the foul after I have grabbed the cue ball, then if I ask if it was a foul before I grab the ball.
the way I usually settle any arguments too
That's the way I usually settle any disagreements too. Take control, ignore them if they disagree!
I do call fouls on myself but when I see that the other person doesn't do the same I'll either take over the function of ref including standing where I can see questionable shots "sharking" or not, or I will go with the when in Rome theory and ignore blatant fouls of my own. It's fun to deliberately foul a few times and when the opponent finally comes unglued just say, "Oh when you didn't call yours I assumed we weren't calling fouls."
Hu
That's the way I usually settle any disagreements too. Take control, ignore them if they disagree!
I do call fouls on myself but when I see that the other person doesn't do the same I'll either take over the function of ref including standing where I can see questionable shots "sharking" or not, or I will go with the when in Rome theory and ignore blatant fouls of my own. It's fun to deliberately foul a few times and when the opponent finally comes unglued just say, "Oh when you didn't call yours I assumed we weren't calling fouls."
Hu
Grabbing the cue ball - BIG No-No
I guess everyone plays by the local rules.
Around here, you just grab the CB without an acknowladged foul and all hell breaks loose. Then you run the risk of the foul on you. I don't know. Grabbing the CB I really don't thik is the answer.
I guess everyone plays by the local rules.
Around here, you just grab the CB without an acknowladged foul and all hell breaks loose. Then you run the risk of the foul on you. I don't know. Grabbing the CB I really don't thik is the answer.
If I know I fouled, I'll either pick up the cue ball, or tell my opponent they have ball in hand, "have a ball" or something. If I think there's any chance they didn't hear me or didn't understand, I say it differently and louder, to be sure.
If I don't know I fouled and my opponent asks, we can discuss it. If I think there's any chance that I might have fouled and just didn't realize it, I'll give them ball in hand without any kind of fight.
However, if my opponent walks to the table and picks up the cue ball and I don't think I fouled, or if I haven't had the opportunity to discuss it before they remove the ball, I WILL call a foul on them for removing the cue ball from the table.
most lie when asked
I have found that if you ask people if they fouled even when the foul is obvious they will deny it. Not fouls that you have to know what to watch for to determine a foul, blatant fouls. When you take control after a blatant foul few argue the point. Anyone that does isn't someone that you are going to be able to reason with anyway.
Hate to say it but I have noticed that the vast majority of people won't call fouls on themselves that they think will go unnoticed, people at all levels of the game. The people that are honest when they don't have to be are the exception not the rule. I give anything resembling a close call to the shooter and take ball in hand when there is no doubt a foul has been committed. Works for me.
If someone asks me about picking up the cue ball I'll describe the foul as a statement of fact, not ask them if they fouled. I do usually mention a foul they might have genuinely missed like not finding a rail when several balls were rolled around or there was a lot of movement and traffic before picking up the cue ball.
Hu
I have found that if you ask people if they fouled even when the foul is obvious they will deny it. Not fouls that you have to know what to watch for to determine a foul, blatant fouls. When you take control after a blatant foul few argue the point. Anyone that does isn't someone that you are going to be able to reason with anyway.
Hate to say it but I have noticed that the vast majority of people won't call fouls on themselves that they think will go unnoticed, people at all levels of the game. The people that are honest when they don't have to be are the exception not the rule. I give anything resembling a close call to the shooter and take ball in hand when there is no doubt a foul has been committed. Works for me.
If someone asks me about picking up the cue ball I'll describe the foul as a statement of fact, not ask them if they fouled. I do usually mention a foul they might have genuinely missed like not finding a rail when several balls were rolled around or there was a lot of movement and traffic before picking up the cue ball.
Hu
Hu,
No offense, but please don't bring your buddies to our pool hall. Most of the folks we play are very honest people. That's one of the biggest reasons we like to play there. Around honest people, you don't grab the cue ball without discussing it. If you think they fouled, just say so. If they think there's any chance they might have made a foul, they let you have the ball in hand without any argument. All you have to do is discuss it, first. We're not a bunch of cut-throats. We love playing pool and want to learn to play a better game without the fuss or hustle.
No offense, but please don't bring your buddies to our pool hall. Most of the folks we play are very honest people. That's one of the biggest reasons we like to play there. Around honest people, you don't grab the cue ball without discussing it. If you think they fouled, just say so. If they think there's any chance they might have made a foul, they let you have the ball in hand without any argument. All you have to do is discuss it, first. We're not a bunch of cut-throats. We love playing pool and want to learn to play a better game without the fuss or hustle.
Melinda was just asked about it ! She said she gave Borana the option. Her call ! Simple. Just in Melinda's defense, so lets not take it further.
The rule is call goes to the shooter if opponent does not call for a referee. Borana didn't ask for a call, but yet she had the option. Very cool ! No drama either.
For those of you that did not see.
My personal opinion it was a foul from watching the stream.
Melinda was just asked about it ! She said she gave Borana the option. Her call ! Simple. Just in Melinda's defense, so lets not take it further.
The rule is call goes to the shooter if opponent does not call for a referee. Borana didn't ask for a call, but yet she had the option. Very cool ! No drama either.
For those of you that did not see.
My personal opinion it was a foul from watching the stream.
I wasn't taking it any further. I was responding to something completely different that had been brought up, later.
BUT, since you brought it back up, I will take it far enough to say that I thought it was handled quite fine. Once a foul is or isn't determined by the players, if they are okay with what was decided, it should be let go. It can't be changed and doesn't matter, anymore. It doesn't matter how much money you have on the game. It's their game and they have to decide how the calls should go, so they are able to continue with an uncluttered head.
A lot of really great players lose games due to their inability to let go of the simple stuff that has already happened and can't be changed. (I've also seen a lot of great players lose games because of someone nearby who can't shut up about a call they disagree with, too.)
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Let's see, I've played from Padre Island Texas to Terre Haute Indiana, and all the way to the Atlantic coast not counting the occasional game in other areas including California, Colorado, and points between here and those destinations and trips further north. Everywhere I went people have been people and all much the same.
I don't play with people that aren't pleasant to play with except in tournaments or when I was betting on my game to live. Not much choice in either situation. However we are always playing new people and they all have a chance to show what they are made of before I make any decisions about them.
It could be that AZB and your pool hall have the highest densities of honest people in the free world but I'm going to play the odds and call BS. I still remember one of the first threads I posted in. Somebody asked if anyone had ever done anything even slightly unethical on a pool table. Forty-one replies before mine and they were all from people that had always behaved perfectly never so much as touching a cue ball with a tip without moving it without admitting to it. I called that foul on myself twice the last time I played someone else. A little out of sync that day. I call fouls on myself even practicing, automatic habit. It was a stranger I was playing and the first time we played when I called touching the cue ball by the way. He didn't see either foul. On the other hand, I have played other people the same way they played thousands of times before too. I'm pretty much willing to play by any rules that anyone wants to play by but I will insist that the same rules or lack of rules apply to both of us.
I'd say that the odds of a person having played pool for years and never having ignored a tiny mistake of their own such as a tip touching or a barely detectable double hit is about the same as a person being without sin. So far there has been one man without sin.
Hu
"The self-righteous cause even The Good Lord to upchuck!" Jo L.
Definitely a foul. If Melinda was looking at the OBs at the time of contact then she shoulda saw the foul. If it's clear from a grainy internet stream, it would be clear when she's 5 feet away.
I can't know what's in anyone else's head... but in my experience, in a questionable hit situation, I immediately make a snap judgment as to good hit or bad hit. I then stick to my guns on it.
If Melinda's brain works like mine (maybe it doesn't) and she felt she fouled, she shoulda called it on herself. Giving the other player the "option" is no substitute for honesty. If she felt it was clean she should just insist it was clean. "Option" is wishy washy.
I might give the other guy an option when I am truly and completely baffled about the hit, like it's very close. But just from my experience that comes up like twice a year. And technically, if it's too close to call and the other guy also can't say for sure... we all know the official rule, right? It goes to the shooter.
PS to hu: I also think that's a little aggressive to just assume the foul. Yes, when I was younger I didn't call them on myself, I can agree with the idea that we've all done it. I just think at some point a person outgrows it and never does it again. At least that's how it's gone with me. I assume anyone who can shoot decently has played long enough to outgrow it unless they are a genuinely sleazy person.
My personal batch of regular opponents will just call it on themselves or accept my call if I'm in a good position to see it. Sometimes they say "forget it" on the obvious dumb ones. For money or tournament play, I won't just scoop it up. Maybe there's a 10 or 20% chance it'll squash their urge to get away with something, but there's probably an even larger chance they will argue it even harder and flip out... maybe to the point where they go looking for an excuse to invent fouls against you.
I can't know what's in anyone else's head... but in my experience, in a questionable hit situation, I immediately make a snap judgment as to good hit or bad hit. I then stick to my guns on it.
If Melinda's brain works like mine (maybe it doesn't) and she felt she fouled, she shoulda called it on herself. Giving the other player the "option" is no substitute for honesty. If she felt it was clean she should just insist it was clean. "Option" is wishy washy.
I might give the other guy an option when I am truly and completely baffled about the hit, like it's very close. But just from my experience that comes up like twice a year. And technically, if it's too close to call and the other guy also can't say for sure... we all know the official rule, right? It goes to the shooter.
PS to hu: I also think that's a little aggressive to just assume the foul. Yes, when I was younger I didn't call them on myself, I can agree with the idea that we've all done it. I just think at some point a person outgrows it and never does it again. At least that's how it's gone with me. I assume anyone who can shoot decently has played long enough to outgrow it unless they are a genuinely sleazy person.
My personal batch of regular opponents will just call it on themselves or accept my call if I'm in a good position to see it. Sometimes they say "forget it" on the obvious dumb ones. For money or tournament play, I won't just scoop it up. Maybe there's a 10 or 20% chance it'll squash their urge to get away with something, but there's probably an even larger chance they will argue it even harder and flip out... maybe to the point where they go looking for an excuse to invent fouls against you.
This is interesting.
I used to call fouls on myself in league play. I did it on principal and I don't remember anyone else doing it. My teammates gave me crap about it and I eventually quit. I don't feel right about it but it puts me at a disadvantage if I do call myself. I guess I've rationalized it as just the way league play goes in my area. I won't hesitate to acknowledge a foul if asked but others in the league aren't so quick. Quite a few will actually deny it. I'm somewhat relieved when someone calls me. I've also been complimented on acknowledging the foul immediately when questioned. That one struck me as ironic. Obviously other peoples perceptions of what is right and wrong are different than mine.
So is it okay if everyone expects you to not call yourself? How far does sportsmanship reach? Is it something that needs to be reciprocated? Am I wrong for adjusting my play to what is the norm in the area?
I used to call fouls on myself in league play. I did it on principal and I don't remember anyone else doing it. My teammates gave me crap about it and I eventually quit. I don't feel right about it but it puts me at a disadvantage if I do call myself. I guess I've rationalized it as just the way league play goes in my area. I won't hesitate to acknowledge a foul if asked but others in the league aren't so quick. Quite a few will actually deny it. I'm somewhat relieved when someone calls me. I've also been complimented on acknowledging the foul immediately when questioned. That one struck me as ironic. Obviously other peoples perceptions of what is right and wrong are different than mine.
So is it okay if everyone expects you to not call yourself? How far does sportsmanship reach? Is it something that needs to be reciprocated? Am I wrong for adjusting my play to what is the norm in the area?