Of James Walden

[AzDave]

Happened to stop by an IPT Qualifier at Magoo's in Tulsa last summer... Was watching a Walden match and quietly pointing out to the Admiral how natural short rack players get themselves in trouble playing eight ball. Each time Walden would get out of line, I'd point out to her how a straight pool player would have played the shot differently. It was interesting that Walden had the ability to make some great shot each and every time to extricate himself from the trouble he'd put himself into.

But the big disappointment was observing a classless act by Walden. While he should have been concentrating on his match, he apparently became upset that someone was whispering comments about his play (again, he could not hear what was being said). I must point out that the only time I would whisper a comment was when he was not shooting or looking away. And how did he react? He walked over to us and threw his towel with great force and anger on the Admiral's feet.

And some wonder why our sport cannot gain PGA type approval…

 

[ironman]

Happened to stop by an IPT Qualifier at Magoo's in Tulsa last summer... Was watching a Walden match and quietly pointing out to the Admiral how natural short rack players get themselves in trouble playing eight ball. Each time Walden would get out of line, I'd point out to her how a straight pool player would have played the shot differently. It was interesting that Walden had the ability to make some great shot each and every time to extricate himself from the trouble he'd put himself into.

But the big disappointment was observing a classless act by Walden. While he should be been concentrating on his match, he apparently became upset that someone was whispering comments about his play (again, he could not hear what was being said). I must point out that the only time I would whisper a comment was when he was not shooting or looking away. And how did he react? He walked over to us and threw his towel with great force on the Admiral's feet.

And some wonder why our sport cannot gain PGA approval…

If he couldn't hear what was being said, why was he upset about whispering?

Having known James for about 15, 15,17 years, I've never seen him react like that. Again though, everybody has their day in the pool hall.

 

[AzDave]

If he couldn't hear what was being said, why was he upset about whispering?

Having known James for about 15, 15,17 years, I've never seen him react like that. Again though, everybody has their day in the pool hall.

You are right about this being atypical of his usual conduct from my observations...but it did happen. As to the reason...your guess is a good as mine. No noise or distraction was created by my whispered comments, and an attempt was made to comment when he did not notice. If I'm going to speculate, I'd say he may have felt he was being stalked as I had observed his game in another town a few months before this incident. If that was the case, his outburst and tournament indiscretion should have been directing at me.

Again, if this game is going to achieve the recognition we know it deserves, this kind of *tournament* conduct should not be condoned.

 

[ShootingArts]

conduct

The conduct throwing a towel is not acceptable. However, when someone is extremely tuned to compete their senses may be sharper than normal not locked into the tunnel some seek. I was very embarrassed that my I thought quiet comments were clearly heard by the player I was talking about and that it was a distraction to him at a recent tournament.

People whisper and talk quietly between shots all of the time. Hard to believe that he threw the towel because of something that he didn't catch enough words of to understand the gist of what was being said. Since you acknowledge this isn't normal behavior I suspect that you also were not nearly as discreet as you thought you were. If your comments back and forth were interfering with a match that isn't acceptable conduct either.

Hu

You are right about this being atypical of his usual conduct from my observations...but it did happen. As to the reason...your guess is a good as mine. No noise or distraction was created by my whispered comments, and an attempt was made to comment when he did not notice. If I'm going to speculate, I'd say he may have felt he was being stalked as I had observed his game in another town a few months before this incident. If that was the case, his outburst and tournament indiscretion should have been directing at me.

Again, if this game is going to achieve the recognition we know it deserves, this kind of *tournament* conduct should not be condoned.

 

[Walt Frazier]

Poor baby

Happened to stop by an IPT Qualifier at Magoo's in Tulsa last summer... Was watching a Walden match and quietly pointing out to the Admiral how natural short rack players get themselves in trouble playing eight ball. Each time Walden would get out of line, I'd point out to her how a straight pool player would have played the shot differently. It was interesting that Walden had the ability to make some great shot each and every time to extricate himself from the trouble he'd put himself into.

But the big disappointment was observing a classless act by Walden. While he should have been concentrating on his match, he apparently became upset that someone was whispering comments about his play (again, he could not hear what was being said). I must point out that the only time I would whisper a comment was when he was not shooting or looking away. And how did he react? He walked over to us and threw his towel with great force and anger on the Admiral's feet.

And some wonder why our sport cannot gain PGA type approval…

I'll see James tomorrow at Bayou Billiards..would you like me to relay an apology from him to you dude?..would that make you feel better?

Geez,James is a great guy but yes,he is also human..What is the purpose of this thread about James anyway?..I would like to know

 

[ShootingArts]

anything happening at Bayou?

I'll see James tomorrow at Bayou Billiards..would you like me to relay an apology from him to you dude?..would that make you feel better?

Walt,

Anything happening at Bayou tomorrow? I've been meaning to ride by since it has been reopened and haven't made it there yet.

Hu

 

[AzDave]

People whisper and talk quietly between shots all of the time. Hard to believe that he threw the towel because of something that he didn't catch enough words of to understand the gist of what was being said. Since you acknowledge this isn't normal behavior I suspect that you also were not nearly as discreet as you thought you were. If your comments back and forth were interfering with a match that isn't acceptable conduct either.

Hu

Well said, and completely agree with your general thought, but not your conclusion. I've been on both sides of that tournament scenario. Two points here:

1- The timing AND volume of the comments in no way "interfered" with the match. Magoo's, during IPT Qualifiers is loud and noisy because normal play does NOT stop during tournament play. Folks were yelling loudly during the match all over the room. My comments could not be heard by anyone but the person they were directed at.

2- I've been in his same tournament situation with intentional distractions going on...and did not handle it by throwing something in rage. ***Whatever*** caused his anger should not be handled as he did. It diminished the the game, the tour, and himself.

Gotta question for you here. How would YOU react if you witnesses a PGA player throwing a towel or club at the gallery?

I'll take this further, how would the PGA react if they witness one of their players throwing a club at a heckler? And there was nothing of that sort at Magoo's that afternoon.

 

[ShootingArts]

well since you asked . . .

Dave,

I have to admit I would laugh if I saw someone making a fool of themselves throwing a towel at someone's feet. There is no comparison between a towel and a club, . . . . had he thrown a cue that would have been a different story. I don't know why the towel was thrown or why or if your friend was singled out. Right now I have one side of the story and since you seem able to look at it objectively I will ask; do you think it seems logical from an outsider's viewpoint, someone that wasn't present? Other people are loud and noisy yet James singles out your friend who is quietly watching the match for special attention?

I am not saying that this didn't happen exactly as you tell it, it just doesn't seem reasonable if this is the complete story. Some questions I would have would include: Are you sure the towel was aimed at your friend or was it thrown and that is where it landed? After that I would wonder about mistaken identity or mistaking your friend for someone creating a problem. This wouldn't excuse a towel deliberately thrown at someone but it would answer the "why" for me. The few times I have thrown a towel in play or anger(not during an event, as a child or during horseplay in high school) I have always thrown at somebody's face or head with so feeble a weapon to even get their attention so throwing at someone's feet strikes me at least as odd.

The PGA is a totally different cat and makes a joke of the oversight of most team sports. I would think that pool should be governed more like tennis where some acting out is allowed but there are limits and sharp penalties for disobeying those rules.

We badly need one or two strong governing bodies, just one or one for pro and one for amateur pool, to bring pool to legitimacy as a sport. Bill France took leadership of a harem-scarem bunch of saturday night racing moonshiners, other outlaws, and working class men mostly out for a good time, and turned them into the NASCAR we see today. In twenty years or less they went from backyard teams to teams having individual yearly sponsorships worth several million a year.(I think ten million or more a year is typical now) There were some toes stepped on along the way and Bill wasn't always right but he did get the job done. I think that KT may have seen that role for himself in pool had the bucks started rolling in for the IPT. No major sponsors or TV dollars came along and he went into his usual scamming mode.

Right now I think pool needs to get it's head out of the clouds where KT's pied pipes have led it and settle down to trying to make a decent reality. Forget scores big enough to retire a pool player if they win and just shoot for the fiftieth ranked man and woman to make a decent living, say fifty thousand a year net, from competition. Once we have a core of professional pool players that make their living from the events themselves we can try to grow from there.

Dang! I started from the comparison to the PGA and wrote a book. Wasn't my intention but I am too tired to go back and edit.

Hu

Well said, and completely agree with your general thought, but not your conclusion. I've been on both sides of that tournament scenario. Two points here:

1- The timing AND volume of the comments in no way "interfered" with the match. Magoo's, during IPT Qualifiers is loud and noisy because normal play does NOT stop during tournament play. Folks were yelling loudly during the match all over the room. My comments could not be heard by anyone but the person they were directed at.

2- I've been in his same tournament situation with intentional distractions going on...and did not handle it by throwing something in rage. ***Whatever*** caused his anger should not be handled as he did. It diminished the the game, the tour, and himself.

Gotta question for you here. How would YOU react if you witnesses a PGA player throwing a towel or club at the gallery?

I'll take this further, how would the PGA react if they witness one of their players throwing a club at a heckler? And there was nothing of that sort at Magoo's that afternoon.

 

[jungledude]

Walden is super guy

Let me say this in James' defense, he is a super nice person that must have misread a comment or perhaps sudden movement that he felt may have been done on purpose, have you ever seen how Buddy Hall or Earl react when they feel the audience is being disrespectful, As for the PGA comment the golfers are all making millions and play to much better audiences but I've seen even Tiger Woods get on spectators. Believe me, James Walden is a good guy and don't deserve to be chastised by what was appearently a bad misunderstanding. I saw Willie Mosconi break a beer bottle on a spectators hill and that was at an exhibition with no money involved. Please give the players a break.

 

[Love The Game]

James is a great player and he's also a nice guy. He must have felt you were sharking him if he reacted like that.

Would love to see Corey give him the eight.

I'll frickin go down in flames with my bankroll on fire if Walden gets this game...........

 

[AzDave]

You've made some great points, particularly about an effective governing body for the sport and income for our better players. As to the particular incident at Magoo's last summer, I would hope we have a MB contributor who was there and can verify.

As to using this incident to illuminate a problem pool needs to overcome to become "legitimate", I can tell you this was not the only such incident I've seen in a pool match. I can relate tales of 'stakes' Rolex watches being hurled to the floor after a match, watching Dick McMorran toss his cue over 4 tables when he lost, and many many more. I'd bet you could relate tales of such inappropriate conduct also.

One other question for you, how would you react if he threw that towel on your wifes feet? Would you make a scene on the spot during tournament play, or would you leave the tournament?

 

[masonh]

Every time I have seen James;he has been all class.You are saying that you railbird comments were unheard or unnoticeable,but why would he get mad if he didn't hear you.It makes no sense.I fade the railbirds every night and it does get old.I would have to agree with the other poster that you weren't as quiet as you thought.Sometimes whispering is louder than talking(i know that makes no sense,but if you play alot you know what I mean).

 

[Dead Money]

What is worse? A public indescretion in the heat of battle or dredging up something minor that happened at an event over a year ago? That is a REALLY tough call for me to make You should have called him out on dissing your woman then, not now.

 

[JAM]

I spoke to James last night for a few seconds. He is probably the most polite pool player I have ever met. We hung out with James in Vegas a couple of evenings, and I really enjoyed his company. He's sweet as can be. If throwing a towel at somebody's feet is the worst thing he's ever done, then God bless him.

As far as comparing pool to the PGA, let's look at the reality. The people within the American golf culture support sport and its pro players. MANY of the people within the American pool culture think pro pool players are the scum of the earth. Just read this forum for a year or two and you'll get the crystal-clear picture.

We were pleased to hear from James yesterday. I never did find out why he's down South, but he's there for a reason. I'm sure we will be reading all about it!

JAM

 

[watchez]

I spoke to James last night for a few seconds. He is probably the most polite pool player I have ever met. We hung out with James in Vegas a couple of evenings, and I really enjoyed his company. He's sweet as can be. If throwing a towel at somebody's feet is the worst thing he's ever done, then God bless him.

As far as comparing pool to the PGA, let's look at the reality. The people within the American golf culture support sport and its pro players. MANY of the people within the American pool culture think pro pool players are the scum of the earth. Just read this forum for a year or two and you'll get the crystal-clear picture.

We were pleased to hear from James yesterday. I never did find out why he's down South, but he's there for a reason. I'm sure we will be reading all about it!

JAM

JAM, I have to agree & disagree. If I heard of PGA players dumping, then yes, I would include them in the scum of the Earth. I heard PGA players borrowing large sums of money with no intention to ever repay someone, then yes I would include them in the scum of the Earth. Just watch Tin Cup and The Color of Money & compare the climatic scene in each movie. It is not only the opinion of those WITHIN the culture of the sport as obviously the writers/directors are not within the culture. Tin Cup--He tries the impossible shot over and over, giving up all chance to win the US Open just to prove his own personal accomplishment on a single shot & his attitude that nothing is too great for him to try. TCOM--Vince takes the easy way out, dumps so he can bet against himself & make the big score. Enough said.

I am sure that there is a history here that AZDave is not telling us. I am sure that there is more to this story. I have seen James Walden call fouls on himself at key situations in tournaments. I have never seen James Walden shark an opponent. He could give lessons on how to act towards your opponent and many pool players would rise above learning from him. Since AZDave wanted to compare it to golf and thinks that his comments had no effect since James was not at the table, here is another scenario. Go to a golf tournament & follow Tiger around. While he is waiting his turn on the tee box and not actually hitting a ball, start whispering to your friend that Tiger should do something different to improve his game or his driving accuracy. Follow him around the course & see how long you last with your comments.

 

[AzDave]

What is worse? A public indescretion in the heat of battle or dredging up something minor that happened at an event over a year ago? That is a REALLY tough call for me to make You should have called him out on dissing your woman then, not now.

Worse is disrupting an important tournament during play, IMO. And you are right to assign the towel throwing incident as "minor", it was. I do understand a player being 'on point' during play, but I still see his actions as described as not being in the best interests of the game.

 

[AzDave]

I spoke to James last night for a few seconds. He is probably the most polite pool player I have ever met. We hung out with James in Vegas a couple of evenings, and I really enjoyed his company. He's sweet as can be. If throwing a towel at somebody's feet is the worst thing he's ever done, then God bless him.

As far as comparing pool to the PGA, let's look at the reality. The people within the American golf culture support sport and its pro players. MANY of the people within the American pool culture think pro pool players are the scum of the earth. Just read this forum for a year or two and you'll get the crystal-clear picture.

We were pleased to hear from James yesterday. I never did find out why he's down South, but he's there for a reason. I'm sure we will be reading all about it!

JAM

I think we all know pro golfers were once thought of by the establishment as being 'the scum of the earth'. That changed...by the hard work of the PGA and its members. Player conduct is an open issue, particularly because of the sports history of hustling and drugs.

Let me say I understand why hustling and drugs have taken down most of our sports best. Life ain't easy, particularly for a pro pool player. But James is one of those players capable of taking the game in a better direction. The towel throwing incident is not one he needs to repeat.

 

[JAM]

I can remember at the Glass City Open a few years ago, Buddy Hall was competing in the pit. I can't remember who he was playing, but it was an intense match.

Surrounding the playing area were tables and chairs for so-called VIP participants, though most anybody sat there if a seat was vacant.

Buddy was doing his slow-walk around the table, surveying his next shot, when a VIP participant stretched his legs under the table, and his shoes came out from underneath the table cloth like the head of a turtle. Buddy immediately saw it and pointed his cue stick at the poor fellow's feet, and he immediately pulled his feet back in and out of Buddy's view.

Some players do not condone distractions of any kind. It's hard to comment on this James Walden incident without know more of the particulars. Knowing James, though, he is probably one of the most laid-back guys I know. Throwing his towel on the floor seems trivial to me.

JAM

 

[JAM]

I think we all know pro golfers were once thought of by the establishment as being 'the scum of the earth'. That changed...by the hard work of the PGA and its members. Player conduct is an open issue, particularly because of the sports history of hustling and drugs.

The PGA has a legitimate transparent organization for its members.

Let me say I understand why hustling and drugs have taken down most of our sports best. Life ain't easy, particularly for a pro pool player. But James is one of those players capable of taking the game in a better direction. The towel throwing incident is not one he needs to repeat.

You actually believe that hustling and drugs have taken down pool? It ain't the player, IMHO. It's the American pool culture. There is little, if any, respect for professional pool players with talent in the American pool culture.

Some believe they should go out and get a "real job" instead of following this fruitless tournament trail. Others think GAMBLING should be brought to the fore, much like poker, to enhance the sport.

As far as drugs go, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. There is no drug testing in pool. However, if there was, it would be revealed that some of today's super stars need to take prescription pills before they compete because of aches and pains.

There will always be a divide between the purists of pool and those who believe that gambling and all of its associated warts should be highlighted. Me personally, I can't stand watching robotic players with no emotion on TV. Gambling, as evidenced by the DCC each January, seems to be popular wtih the American pool culture. How to satisfy the pool purists and the others who likes to see emotion and GAMBLING in the game is the big question.

In retrospect, it ain't hustling and drugs which keeps pool from elevating to an accepted sport. It is mainstream America who has no interest in it.

JAM

 

[AzDave]

The PGA has a legitimate transparent organization for its members.

You actually believe that hustling and drugs have taken down pool (players)? It ain't the player, IMHO. It's the American pool culture. There is little, if any, respect for professional pool players with talent in the American pool culture.

In retrospect, it ain't hustling and drugs which keeps pool from elevating to an accepted sport. It is mainstream America who has no interest in it.

JAM

You could well be right. Drugs and gambling may not have had anything to do with the early deaths of players like Greenleaf and Florence.