offered to adjust and refused

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Yep. At least in this case, where he’s getting murdered by a much better player.

I’ll play a round of golf with a tour pro and enjoy myself, but it’s not going to make me try harder. I may try harder, and so will he if there’s enough of a spot to make it a challenge for both of us.
Oh ok... The bolded is the difference between our opinions. I always try my hardest when playing someone of greater ability. Stealing a frame or two and still losing 2-11 to SVB would still give me some bragging rights imo.

Golf isn't a good comparable in this. A golfer plays the course, not his opponent.
 

PaulAlex7000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a fargo of about 520 or so. I'll play against a player with a fargo of around 700+

If it's only for $5 to $10, I'll play even. I lose of course but I look at it as cheap lessons.
 
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maha

from way back when
Silver Member
if you dont have the winning instinct in you . then you dont have the getting much better one either.

so you lose on both counts.
 

David in FL

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Golf isn't a good comparable in this. A golfer plays the course, not his opponent.

Not at all. In matchplay particularly, you’re playing directly against another individual, or team. It doesn’t matter at all if you make 7 on a hole, if your opponent makes 8. Even in stroke play, my decisions will often be influenced by the play of another player towards the end of the match. If we’re tied and he dunks his approach shot in the lake on 18, it‘s going to affect how I look at and play my own approach.

Regardless though, sitting on my butt and watching SVB break and run rack after rack, isn’t doing much to improve my pool game. I can do that from the rail. A reasonable spot could certainly help.

Note, I’m not talking about a 50 point Fargo different, maybe not even 100 point difference, but the OP is talking about a situation where he absolutely creamed the guy who clearly wasn’t even in his league. It’s also worth mentioning, that if it’s not at least interesting for the better player, you may not find very many much better players even willing to take the time…
 
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Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing one pocket.
Stranger(player B)asks player A to play one pocket.
Player A wins 6 straight for low stakes and it's not even close.
Player A says next time we will adjust.
Player B says no I can only get better playing better players
Player A says even if we adjust you are still playing a better player but have a chance to win.
Player B says no we play even.
I dont get it.
Lol. The 'myth' that you will get 'better' by playing 'better players' for money was started by...wait for it...BETTER PLAYERS !!!!!
You will see very little if anything from the player who is robbing you.
He will play 'just good enough' to win. If he plays 'all out' , you will lose
interest and quit. Watch better players. See what they do in certain circumstances.
Work on your stroke !
Good luck
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
you learn more by watching better players and then using what you learned on worse players to see how it works and win money for the reward.
 

SurfTopics

Member
It paid for player A's whole day including food and a tip for the counter person.
Yeah some people tip the counter person, it provides good service.
Off topic from OP.
I always tip service providers, where I know I'll be back for future service, just a touch above what they might expect to see. Regardless of industry. I find I usually get great service when I return.
 

td873

C is for Cookie
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm with Bob on this. One pocket is particularly unique regarding spots. It's much easier to stall or hold back your game in one hole. As Bob alluded, without the spot, you won't be [on the gold bar / on the stack / jacked up / hooked] every shot. You'll see a lot of flyers that would never happen in a "real" game. First, they'll get ahead and once they are playing on house money, then they'll just play in cruise control. And, if the disparity is more like 11-5 / 10-6, you really have no chance to win playing even. Zero. [If they are only 1, maybe 2 balls better, playing head-up might work for the "I'm going to get better" mindset. Everyone can get a ball or two roll in one game. But NOBODY gets a 5/6/7 ball roll. You're just riding your bike as fast as you can in a car race. No chance.]

There's no shame in playing/winning with a spot in one pocket. I've seen plenty of situations where pros are giving big spots to other pros. The skill/knowledge differential is that important in one pocket.

Just playing even for pride does happen a lot, though. But, IMO, pride is one of the things that has lost folks the most money/games in pool. Tied for top spots are: overestimating your skill level, not knowing when you're the fish and alcohol. ha!

-td
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you want to play against much better players and you are trying to learn the game and get better; you will see their best game if the spot makes it close to an even match up- I agree with the poster here who said that a much better player, knowing that they have every match in the bag up front, will not bring their A game for you to see, and will play a different game than the one you need to learn from.

It may not be about the money for the learner, but it will be about the money for the much better player - he will not want to give up a dime to a weaker player- so upping the spot properly will show you his better game to learn from.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
If the weaker player is trying to learn the right way to play the game, there is another factor. If the mismatch is large, the better player is likely to take risky shots that he would not play in an even game. If he is thinking he has a long-term "patron", he might not bring out the good stuff, like the bank-ticky and the rolling carom, and the learning will be either wrong or slow.
That fits with my experience. There was a pro I used to practice nine ball with, occasionally betting small but usually betting nothing. When we played even, the game was about even, and that bothered me, for I knew he was the better player by quite a bit. From then on, even when we weren't gambling, I always asked for and got the seven ball. Sure enough, the game was still even. The difference was that when my opponent was playing me without a spot, I wasn't getting his best game and I knew it. Hence, it was much better practice for me to play him getting a spot.

As importantly, it was better practice for him, as giving me the spot pushed him to a higher level of play.
 
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Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
That fits with my experience. There was a pro I used to practice nine ball with, occasionally betting small but usually betting nothing. When we played even, the game was about even, and that bothered me, for I knew he was the better player by quite a bit. From then on, even when we weren't gambling, I always asked for and got the seven ball. Sure enough, the game was still even. The difference was that when my opponent was playing me without a spot, I wasn't getting his best game and I knew it. Hence, it was much better practice for me to play him getting a spot.

As importantly, it was better practice for him, as giving me the spot pushed him to a higher level of play.
Agree with this, and using Bob's quote " like the bank-ticky and the rolling carom" the stronger player will also be learning.
Many times I play much weaker opponents and try circus shots and make them. Later in games with strong players what I learned from those shots are remembered and come in to play.
 

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agree with this, and using Bob's quote " like the bank-ticky and the rolling carom" the stronger player will also be learning.
Many times I play much weaker opponents and try circus shots and make them. Later in games with strong players what I learned from those shots are remembered and come in to play.
I agree that better players will not show their best stuff. However as far as ticky shots, I think straight pool is the best teacher. I learned those shots trying to keep my run alive.

I do also agree that if a player is way above your skill level some adjustments are needed (no reason to get blown up).
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh ok... The bolded is the difference between our opinions. I always try my hardest when playing someone of greater ability. Stealing a frame or two and still losing 2-11 to SVB would still give me some bragging rights imo.

Golf isn't a good comparable in this. A golfer plays the course, not his opponent.
I agree^^ In golf you don't have play from where someone else left your ball, you play from where you left yourself.
 

td873

C is for Cookie
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree^^ In golf you don't have play from where someone else left your ball, you play from where you left yourself.
Counterpoint: in my golf game, I often leave myself WAY worse than any opponent would in one pocket. ha.

-td
 

David in FL

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Counterpoint: in my golf game, I often leave myself WAY worse than any opponent would in one pocket. ha.

-td
And, on rare occasion, I’ve even been known to make a ball and actually have to shoot again from my own leave. 😮😂
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing one pocket.
Stranger(player B)asks player A to play one pocket.
Player A wins 6 straight for low stakes and it's not even close.
Player A says next time we will adjust.
Player B says no I can only get better playing better players
Player A says even if we adjust you are still playing a better player but have a chance to win.
Player B says no we play even.
I dont get it.

I've played a few guys like that -- it's an old school mentality you don't see much of anymore nowadays.

One guy, each time we'd play, I'd offer him a blank check.

Me: "How do you want to play?"

Him: "Even."

After administering three or four beatings I told him I wouldn't play him for money anymore and in time we became pretty good friends.

Lou Figueroa
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is proof that anything can be overthought. The idea that we'd question a guy wanting to play the game straight up as it was invented seems odd.

As for this endless hair splitting about being pushed versus not caring about winning versus your opponent not being pushed, and so on and so on, let the guy have his journey. As long as he is having fun and striving hard he'll be fine. There are a lot of ways to the top and any can be made to work with the right level of engagement and effort.
 
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