Oiling cue tip

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now, let's get on another "taboo" subject.

SILICONE.

People will tell you that you should NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER even touch your cue with ANY type of silicone.

I have used a silicone impregnated gun cloth on my shafts HUNDREDS of times and they haven't fallen apart. I've even used it to shine up the forearms and butts on some of my cues.

Where did I learn this? Let's guess.

In a pool hall when I was working there as a teen 50 years ago.

An old guy came in and when I was watching him and racking the table (they paid by the game and we racked the balls), I noticed he kept wiping his cue with a yellow cloth.
I asked him what it was and he told me and I checked his cue out. It was slicker than goose grease, but not oily. He told me the sporting store he bought it in and I bought one. I used them for decades and had one up until a couple years ago until somebody stole my bag.

BUT NO, NO, NO.

NEVER DO THAT.

You will NEVER be able to refinish the cue again.

WELL, I've had two of them refinished twice over the years and guess, "what?"

They are still like brand new, after 40 years.

They weren't refinished because of silicone damage. They were refinished because I had a few little dings in the finish and I like my stuff looking new.

And, like with the oil for tips, I DIDN'T soak my cue in silicone...I wiped it with a silicon cloth.

So, the moral of the story is:

Some people have done things and had no problems and other people have talked about not doing things without every doing it to see what happens.

And, please tell me I wasn't supposed to wipe my shaft down with lighter fluid the other day.

The silicone thing with cue refinishing isnt about wiping a cue with a gun rag.

It is about in a cue shop/wood finishing shop in general, silicone can get on stuff, and finishes wont adhere as well.

As far as the lighter fluid thing, I brought that up to Mortuary Mike in 2015.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5192246&postcount=67

That was in May, by end of June, he liked it well enough to be doing it for paying customers.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5225103&postcount=92

While I dont like it, because it has raised the grain on every shaft Ive ever tried it on, I dont think it harms a cue any worse than some of the other silly shit people do to theirs these days. :grin:
 
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RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let's see if I can make this SIMPLE enough for you.

A tip is hard and you want a softer tip.

Option one: Scuff it up a bit and see what happens.

Result: Tip is still hard. (seek more options)

Option two: Take the tip off and replace it with another one which is never a bad idea.

Result: Maybe a softer tip.

Option three: Put a drop of oil on it and see what happens.

Result 1: Still hard or oil damaged tip (not likely). Replace tip. (See Option two)

Result 2: Tip is softened. No need to change tip. Play pool.

The correct option after picking/sanding/reshaping etc, is replacement.
I dont give a shit what anyone does with anything they own. Its theirs, fook with it however you like.

I am speaking facts about the possibility of it messing up someones tip. You are stuck on saying theres nothing wrong with it.

Fact is, there is nothing wrong with it. For you.

Other people can make up their own minds as to what is horseshit, and what is not. :thumbup:
 
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book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Almost every player in the world puts chalk on their tip to keep it from miscueing, I'm not a scientist but I 'm going to guess it's counter productive.
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used neatsfoot oil on a couple tips after reading a thread on here a while back, ruined my tips in my opinion, good thing they are cheap
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve tried neatsfoot oil on tips in a effort to soften them. Tip would not hold chalk and it was a miscue fest!! Just accept the fact that tips harden with use and if you need a softer tip, install a new soft tip.

Same thing here.
 

localredhead

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In this thread, sewing machine oil (HawaiianEye has talked about this before), WD40 etc have been discussed.

They are petroleum based.

If you want to act like you know what you are talking about, you might want to actually know first, before your mouth gets ahead of reality.

This thread has gotten pedantic for no good reason. If you have no spirit for experimentation why even jump in the thread and start barking?
I mention WD40 because someone who works on cues for a living for a billiards shop told me how he treats his personal playing tips.

WD40 is not petroleum based. If anything it's solvent based. It's often used as a de-greaser. It has some mineral oil (aka baby oil without the scent).

st_whatsinside2_f.jpg


Here is gas chromatography showing that there are at least 4 different kinds of solvents and alkalines each at a larger quantity than the mineral oil.

WD-40 stands for "Water Displacement - 40th Attempt". This property alone makes me curious about what it does to a tip.

Could it be possible there is some weight to what my cue tech is saying? I have no reason to distrust him. After all he wants repeat customers, why would he say blasphemous things? No need to answer I'm asking rhetorically.
 

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread has gotten pedantic for no good reason. If you have no spirit for experimentation why even jump in the thread and start barking?

Im trying to save people from fooking up their tips for no good reason.

I mention WD40 because someone who works on cues for a living for a billiards shop told me how he treats his personal playing tips.

WD40 is not petroleum based. If anything it's solvent based. It's often used as a de-greaser. It has some mineral oil (aka baby oil without the scent).

Yes. It is. This link is the SDS from WD40.


https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/mup/wd-40-multi-use-product-aerosol-low-voc-sds-us-ghs.pdf

st_whatsinside2_f.jpg


Here is gas chromatography showing that there are at least 4 different kinds of solvents and alkalines each at a larger quantity than the mineral oil.

This is relevant how?

WD-40 stands for "Water Displacement - 40th Attempt". This property alone makes me curious about what it does to a tip.

Try it and report back about how great it is.

Could it be possible there is some weight to what my cue tech is saying? I have no reason to distrust him. After all he wants repeat customers, why would he say blasphemous things? No need to answer I'm asking rhetorically.

Need or not. He is probably repeating something he heard, and it sounds good to him. It is not needed.

For fooks sake, in 2020 it is now necessary to tell people its not a good idea to put WD40 on their goddamned cue tips.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They wear out anyway. So why does it matter? If they stay pliant instead of flattening, that's a good thing.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My favorite playing tip?

Super hard Phenolic with a few drops of Boiled Linseed Oil, give it a few days to dry. I make my own from solid rod and have never tried it on another phenolic tip.

It will profile like butter, hit 2 1/2 tons and hold chalk very well. I break with it and just continue to play entire games with it.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im trying to save people from fooking up their tips for no good reason.

OMG! Thank you for expertise! You saved a $1 dollar Lepro from total destruction!

What the hell is it going to hurt to try it?
Its not going to be a billiard apocalypse!
If it doesnt work, pull a dollar out of pocket and put another one on! Would I recommend experimenting on a $30 Kamui? Hell no.
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
it could also cost you the time and price to have another put on
not worth all that for me to try something that aint gonna make more balls for me
i dont want my lepro getting softer at all
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it could also cost you the time and price to have another put on
not worth all that for me to try something that aint gonna make more balls for me
i dont want my lepro getting softer at all

I do agree with you in that respect, but that wasnt my point. If you are not equipped or dont have the confidence to install your own tips, you probably shouldn't be experimenting.

And contrary to what some believe, you dont need a lathe to install a cue tip. It just makes the job quicker.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Let me comment on this post this once and maybe we can be done with all this childish bickering.

I do not think putting a tiny bit of oil on a tip of a pool cue is bad IF you do it in moderation and use the correct oil, along with putting it on in the right place.

If you want to experiment with putting oil on your tip, let me make this recommendation (I am serious):

On a typical human beings head there are glands behind your ears that are called sebaceous glands that produce an oil (sebum). I have at times gotten some of this natural oil and with my thumb and forefinger, used it to rub it around the outside edge of my tips. It helps keep the tips from drying out.

You may notice that at times you may rub your nose and it too feels oily. Same stuff. Get it on your thumb and forefinger and burnish your tip with it.

I have never tried to put this sebum on the actual contact points of my tip, but I cannot see how it would harm anything since it is a natural oil that would be used in extreme moderation. I'm going to try it next time I get a build-up behind my ears or on my nose.

Maniac
 

asamimasa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alongside billiards, leathercraft is another primary hobby of mine, so I'll leave a few thoughts here. You can find some of what I work on here if my credentials/knowledgeability are suspect.

Even in the leathercraft world, the realm of oils/conditioners is incredibly hazy; there are few facts (largely due to lack of repeatability/generalizability and cellulal-level analysis), and a lot of myth/folk remedies floating around. Mink oil and cooking oils are well-known one to avoid from the perspective of it seemingly achieves the goal of making leather supple/restored from a tactile perspective because it softens it. This extends to plenty of other oils. If it satisfies and doesn't go rancid, great. Is it absolutely the best choice? The answer ranges from no to not really, but there's insufficient evidence from an organic chemistry standpoint. Happy with the results is different from beneficial material interaction.

Given that every tannage of leather is its own chemical concoction, it'd be impossible to generalize a panacea for restoration. Neatsfoot oil and extra virgin olive oil are more accepted oils, but I don't want to indicate that these are the ones to default to; neatsfoot really only belongs in the world of saddlery and tack where it's hard-worn and spends significant time in the sun, less so your wallet made from a thinner version of the same stuff. EVOO is thought to be a decent way to go for processes that dry out the oil, such as wet molding (e.g., old-world/period reenactment armor, gun holsters).

Oils and conditioners are typically concerned with keeping the top grain intact and from cracking, which is not what we deal with in cue tips. We're using the fibrous grain structure, so anything overheard about an application to leather cannot be carried over here. Structurally, a suede restorative product is more applicable, but that is almost always a chrome tan process rather than the vegetable tanning we see in tips.

That said, oils and conditioners are overprescribed. They immediately feel like they're doing a lot because they soften and darken the leather, giving the sensation of a positive change. In general, cue tips or not, leather goods are safer erred on the side of not treating it. Specifically in the case of tips, I don't see a benefit to the upsides of conditioning, as the resulting softness could "dent" the tip if gets too soft, somewhat like an Elkmaster installed on a snooker cue with immediate mushrooming to one side because the test hit was off-center. As echoed elsewhere in this thread, you certainly wouldn't want to do anything to a layered tip since the adhesive would be degraded.

The aforementioned way of impregnating a tip with oils through continued contact also doesn't hold in practice, as we only ever get "patina" at the surface level. Once you trim excess off of a tip, you've gone past the penetration depth of any oils transferred through casual exposure. I do experiments with my leather scraps for patina such as leaving it out in the sun or exposing leather that shouldn't get wet to water drops, and I've never found anything besides slathering a liquid on to penetrate any deeper than the absolute 1oz (0.25mm thickness) top of the leather. On the other far end, soaking it in oils would result in full penetration, but that risks the whole integrity of the fibrous grain that isn't being held by a binding top grain, so not recommended.

Similarly, milk duds are immersed in a fluid, but the end result is a drying out effect closer to soaking it in water than it is oil; the end result is a harder tip that doesn't mushroom as much. I can't confidently speculate too much on the milk casein - leather interaction, but I'm suspicious about its benefits at best since it's a stabilized product through the tanning process and rancidness would be a known, larger risk. All that said, I've enjoyed 8/9 of the ones I've used from pooldawg8 (free plug!).
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alongside billiards, leathercraft is another primary hobby of mine, so I'll leave a few thoughts here. You can find some of what I work on here if my credentials/knowledgeability are suspect.

Even in the leathercraft world, the realm of oils/conditioners is incredibly hazy; there are few facts (largely due to lack of repeatability/generalizability and cellulal-level analysis), and a lot of myth/folk remedies floating around. Mink oil and cooking oils are well-known one to avoid from the perspective of it seemingly achieves the goal of making leather supple/restored from a tactile perspective because it softens it. This extends to plenty of other oils. If it satisfies and doesn't go rancid, great. Is it absolutely the best choice? The answer ranges from no to not really, but there's insufficient evidence from an organic chemistry standpoint. Happy with the results is different from beneficial material interaction.

Given that every tannage of leather is its own chemical concoction, it'd be impossible to generalize a panacea for restoration. Neatsfoot oil and extra virgin olive oil are more accepted oils, but I don't want to indicate that these are the ones to default to; neatsfoot really only belongs in the world of saddlery and tack where it's hard-worn and spends significant time in the sun, less so your wallet made from a thinner version of the same stuff. EVOO is thought to be a decent way to go for processes that dry out the oil, such as wet molding (e.g., old-world/period reenactment armor, gun holsters).

Oils and conditioners are typically concerned with keeping the top grain intact and from cracking, which is not what we deal with in cue tips. We're using the fibrous grain structure, so anything overheard about an application to leather cannot be carried over here. Structurally, a suede restorative product is more applicable, but that is almost always a chrome tan process rather than the vegetable tanning we see in tips.

That said, oils and conditioners are overprescribed. They immediately feel like they're doing a lot because they soften and darken the leather, giving the sensation of a positive change. In general, cue tips or not, leather goods are safer erred on the side of not treating it. Specifically in the case of tips, I don't see a benefit to the upsides of conditioning, as the resulting softness could "dent" the tip if gets too soft, somewhat like an Elkmaster installed on a snooker cue with immediate mushrooming to one side because the test hit was off-center. As echoed elsewhere in this thread, you certainly wouldn't want to do anything to a layered tip since the adhesive would be degraded.

The aforementioned way of impregnating a tip with oils through continued contact also doesn't hold in practice, as we only ever get "patina" at the surface level. Once you trim excess off of a tip, you've gone past the penetration depth of any oils transferred through casual exposure. I do experiments with my leather scraps for patina such as leaving it out in the sun or exposing leather that shouldn't get wet to water drops, and I've never found anything besides slathering a liquid on to penetrate any deeper than the absolute 1oz (0.25mm thickness) top of the leather. On the other far end, soaking it in oils would result in full penetration, but that risks the whole integrity of the fibrous grain that isn't being held by a binding top grain, so not recommended.

Similarly, milk duds are immersed in a fluid, but the end result is a drying out effect closer to soaking it in water than it is oil; the end result is a harder tip that doesn't mushroom as much. I can't confidently speculate too much on the milk casein - leather interaction, but I'm suspicious about its benefits at best since it's a stabilized product through the tanning process and rancidness would be a known, larger risk. All that said, I've enjoyed 8/9 of the ones I've used from pooldawg8 (free plug!).

Good post And a beautiful portfolio of work, like the airpod case you did.
 
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