OK, 9-Ball Gurus, How Would You Play This?

sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
OK, it's time to give the nine-ball players a chance to show off their knowledge.

Today's position comes from a match I once played while a top pro was watching, and, I'm sad to report that, even though I got out, he disapproved of the way I played it, and he told me how he thought I should have approached the runout. See if you can work it out. Who knows, maybe you'll come up with an even better way!

Your opponent scratches on the break and leaves the layout shown below. What's the best approach for running the table?
 

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The seven ball is where your going to have to make a good shot. As long as you get good on the six, set up for the seven, That would be your toughest shot. 2 and 3 are ducks. Nice straight in the side tap shot on the four. Depending on where you leave yourself youve got to get good on the six to get good on the seven.
 
Play the Three for the four in the side pocket it well give you shape for the five to get back on the six. Depending on where you are on the six, you could draw or go one rail for the seven in the corner. Then depending on your skill level you could just pocket the seven for a tough cut on the eight or use english and go two rails.
 
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The 2 is easy position I'd try to push that 8 to where I could get maybe a 2 railer to the 9 (by sticking the 7).
 
The key is the 8, not the 7. If you get to the 7, then it's just what you can do with the 8 to the 9. So many options when you get to the 8 that the rest of the rack doesn't matter. Granted, if you get tough on the 7, of course the 8 to the 9 is tough because you're in a just make the 7 situation. After that, it's what you make of it.
 
Rude Dog said:
The key is the 8, not the 7. If you get to the 7, then it's just what you can do with the 8 to the 9. So many options when you get to the 8 that the rest of the rack doesn't matter. Granted, if you get tough on the 7, of course the 8 to the 9 is tough because you're in a just make the 7 situation. After that, it's what you make of it.
Click to expand...

I disagreee Rude Dog,

the 7 is the key shot here, because the way the Eight and Nine are positioned you have plenty of choice to work with. But if you mess up your position on the 7 you'll be easily left with a very tough position shot to get to the Eight with an appropriate (spelling?) angle.

Regards,
Markus
 
OK, my thoughts...

a) Moving the 8 first shot isn't a terrible choice and its not a really difficult shot to move it and control the cb. Howver does it offer any real value, eg is risk v reward worth it? I don't think the 8 to 9 is that difficult a shot as long as you get the right position and play it the right way eg play it 3 cushions, safest way to play it in my mind.

Overall I would consider this a straight forward clearence for a top player, one he/she would expect to get everytime because everyball is in the open. Hoever it is a tricky clearence as there are a couple of shots where a loose white could make the clearence very difficult. I will skip the fist few balls as I wouldn't play anything unusual with them, (despite the temptation to kick the 8).

3 to 4
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5 to 6
I would then play a stop shot on the 4 ball because it is extreemly important not to finish straight on the 6 and I think the safest way to play the 5 to garuantee an angle on the 6 is to play it like this...

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6 to 7
Then you would have a nice angle to sink the 6 and come across the table for the 7 down the rail. I guess theres an area of though that would play the 6 to leave the 7 down the long rail and follow through for the 8 but I would probably play on it like this...

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8 to 9
The it should just be a straight forward draw to leave the following shot on the black, preferably off 3 rails (percentage safest way to play on the black IMO

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and then smash the 9 in off two rails into the middle LOL :-)
 
First I would bank the 1 two rails into the side, and play a 3 rail kick to make the 2, and jump over the 9 to make the 3.

Honestly, you have a few choices, since the 1, 2, and 3 balls are in the hole. If you are not comfortable with the 7 to the 8 ball, since you have ball in hand on the 1, you can give yourself an angle to draw the cueball into the 8 ball and push it towards the corner pocket on the same side of the table as the 7 ball. The 2 is in the hole so you don't have to worry much about position, given that the 3 is also hanging into the hole. That way, after the 6 ball you can just play center of the table shape for the 7 ball, and only have to draw it 1 rail for position on the 8, leaving yourself an angle of course. Given this exact layout, with the first 3 balls hanging in the hole, I would most likely opt to draw into the 8 ball to move it towards the other hole, that would make the run out a bit easier.
 
To me, the balls are runnable, getting from the 8 to the nine looks fairly straightforward, BUT if I didn't get really good on the 7 (ie. small angle) I could mess it up. I would be extremely tempted to nudge the 8 when shooting the one - making absolutely sure that I hit the top of the 8 so the cue ball would continue towards the same side as the 2 (hitting the 8 square would probably end in me snookering myself). This would make getting perfect shape on the 7 less necessary. Hey, maybe straight pool is good prep for 9-ball after all.
 
I don't see what's so hard about this layout. Getting from the 7 to the 8 is a way of life in nineball.

The 1 - 5 are pretty straight forward (playing the 4 in the side). An angle on the 6 (position A) gets you to position B on the 7. Then you just play the side rails with draw (low right) to position C on the 8.


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WEI

You never want to try to take the 7 up the rail the opposite corner. Trying to get straight on the seven and drawing back for the 8 is an option but getting straight on it is not easy and you might end up with a funny angle.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
I don't see what's so hard about this layout. Getting from the 7 to the 8 is a way of life in nineball.

The 1 - 5 are pretty straight forward (playing the 4 in the side). An angle on the 6 (position A) gets you to position B on the 7. Then you just play the side rails with draw (low right) to position C on the 8.


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WEI

You never want to try to take the 7 up the rail the opposite corner. Trying to get straight on the seven and drawing back for the 8 is an option but getting straight on it is not easy and you might end up with a funny angle.

Chris
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Agreed. I feel the 7 is the key shot too. Getting straight on the 7 is OK and so is a small angle. Too much angle is disasterous. I would shoot the 7 trying tohit the CB hard enough to die on the side rail but error to over hit it a little. This way, if I hit it a little to hard, the cb comes off the side rail but still has a good angle to 2 rail back for the 8 as Tate drew up. Going from the 8 to 9 should be a lay-up.


Eric
 
sjm said:
Your opponent scratches on the break and leaves the layout shown below. What's the best approach for running the table?
Click to expand...
IMO, the only thing difficult about this rack (other than execution, hehe), is getting from the 3 to the 4 for an angle on the 5. The 9-ball makes the 5 to the 6 for the angle on 7 a one-sided proposition (cueball above the 5-ball, in the layout).

It seems to me that you could be anywhere within 30 degrees on the 7 ball to get out, so, IMO, the 7-ball position isn't as crucial.


Fred
 
sjm said:
he disapproved of the way I played it, and he told me how he thought I should have approached the runout.
Click to expand...

Did you cut the 6 and go straight across the table for the seven? If you played it one rail and came up close to the seven, but makable, you dodged a bullet.

Tracy
 
Now that Fred mentioned the shape from the 3-4 to get angle on the 5, I think he's right. I didn't notice that if you play shape on the 4 in the side, it's very hard to either get a good angle from the 5 to the 6, or to leave yourself a decent makeable shot on the 4 because you might be jacked up over a ball. Screw the 8 ball, I overanalyzed it, that is the only tricky thing about this rack. I say play the 4 in either the far right corner, or play shape to make it in the other side pocket on the same side as the 6 ball. I think playing shape in the side that we all mentioned is a mistake.
 
LastTwo said:
Now that Fred mentioned the shape from the 3-4 to get angle on the 5, I think he's right. I didn't notice that if you play shape on the 4 in the side, ....
Click to expand...


Consider this; if you make the 4 in the side and roll the CB to center table, making the 5 to get on the 6 is very forgiving. If you have the right angle to the 6, then you're good. Even if you have the wrong angle, you can still shoot the 5 with inside inglese to get the angle on the 6. Worse comes to worse, if you really get bad on the 5, you can 2 rail the cb past the 9 and come around the corner back out for the 6. It's a little dicey that way, but do-able. I would be concerned about a sharp angle on the 6 making good po on the 7 tough. I wouldn't want to be left the bank option on the 7 as that could be a sell out. Of course this is all my opinion only.


Eric
 
Hmm you are right. Rolling to center table and then using inside makes it easy to get a good angle on the 6 because after making the 5 you can roll straight to center table again. Good point.
 
The 6 and 7 are both key because you have to get on the 6 right to get on the 7 so that you can get to the 8.

I'd love to have this table with ball in hand!
 
What the Top Pro Told Me

Wow! I'm amazed at the number of responses. Thanks, guys. By the way, this rack occurred in a TriState event in 1999 at the Amsterdam Billiard Club in NYC, and the top pro looking on was George "Ginky" SanSouci.

Let's start by saying that everyone got this right. Those that argued that a top player would likely clear this table no matter how they played it are right, but I am an "A" player, not a top pro. Ginky felt strongly that moving the eight, a course of action suggested by a few in this thread, as I shot the one, was critical. Like many of you, I argued that I saw a runout without it, but Ginky felt that there was no way to lose the shape onto the two while doing so, and that the shape from the two to the three would always be routine. He also offered that he would have repositioned the eight if it were his ball in hand. He felt that regardless of your playing level, you will have a higher runout percentage if you nudge the eight across the table.

Still, it's all a matter of opinion, and I'm glad that so many chose to participate. All these points aside, I'd be interested in hearing whether people enjoy this kind of thread, and I hope someone else will be so daring as to try one of these "How would you play this?" threads. I thought I showed some guts in letting you all critique a rack that I myself played. Who's next?
 
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sjm said:
He felt that regardless of your playing level, you will have a higher runout percentage if you nudge the eight across the table.

.
Click to expand...

I think (at least my instructors have told me that I am supposed to think) that you should be continuously vigilant in looking for shots like this that are relatively risk-free, that can even slightly increase your chances of success. This attitude extends to always looking for the correct ball path that maximizes (even a few small percentage points) your chances of obtaining successful position. If it makes a difference only once in a hundred times, it is still worth doing - all the little percentage plays have a way of adding up. One professional said there is a name for the players that continuously seek that little edge - "winners."

P.S. - Show me an old school straight pool player, and I'll show you someone dedicated to reducing risk. I think the straight pool players on the board would feel a lot more comfortable and natural with the decision to move the 8-ball, the 9-ball players know they can just shoot 'em where they lie.
 
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SJM great thread this is the kind of thread I like myself. One of the other forums has a "how would you play this" thread. How did you attach the wei as a Jpeg(?) I tried with my earlier response but I'm missing something.
 
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