ok lets see

timberly back up why i'm an idiot. question, is a toyota corrola more reliable than any other vehicle in history? answer : YES!

question are american automobiles known to last shorter than japanese cars? answer:YES

question- is it true, that after 50 years not one promoter had the vision to bring pool to the forefront? answer:TRUE.

let's get to the bottom of this, go out tomorrow to your local mall, and ask 100 people if they plan on going to watch the u.s. 9-ball open in virginia later this year. i guarentee you, not one person in 100 will say yes, all of them will say, what and where is this held?? promoters do not care if pool is huge, it's not nor has it ever been their main concern, they only want money in THEIR pockets!!!!! that's why i say, to hell with them all!!! they all could have pooled together and sat down for a year and come up with a plan to sell pool to the masses throught television, did they, NO why, because in their mind "why should we?"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the next time your starving and about to die from hunger and a person offers you a nice hot meal, please, don't spit in their face.
 
Timberly said:
My personal preference is the '68 RS/SS Camaro or a '72 SS Red Chevelle. ;)

68 RS/SS Big Block Convertable perhaps. And 70 is the last "true" year for Chevelles ;)

You have nice taste, BTW :)
 
8-ball bernie said:
i'm glad mr. truedue is trying to control the pool world, and it wouldn't be such a bad thing if all the other tours go away. they had their chance, and they FAILED read my type they FAILED!

This merits serious consideration as the single worst post in the history of the AZB forum.
 
8-ball bernie said:
timberly back up why i'm an idiot.
LOL, I don't have to. You do it for me.

the next time your starving and about to die from hunger and a person offers you a nice hot meal, please, don't spit in their face.
What in the hell does this have to do with ANYTHING?!?!?! Your post made no sense. When you do post something that is comprehensible, it still makes no sense. If you want to live your life flying by the seat of your pants and living moment to moment, that's fine. The rest of us like to think about our futures a little bit.

Bernie, I'm gonna be honest... I'd bet the farm (if I owned it) that you will NOT own a tour card EVER again after this season. Where do you plan on playing pool, should all these people that wish ill will to close up shop and go home?

I stand by my original post. You've posted enough over the last few months that I know that there's nothing you're going to say that's going to change my mind about you. Your posts actually get worse with time as opposed to better.
 
Read THIS Mr. Ball Bernie, You think you know so much, you don't know sh!t about pool, the players or life in general..


Again, I am being faced with some mean spirited controversy, so I elected to write a semi short article regarding hosting a NATIONAL tournament. National events differ considerably from local and state. I hope all who are interested will appreciate what I have to say.

Each and every tournament is different. It all completely depends on what property i.e. hotel, resort or casino and the area with which you are dealing.

The sport of pool is unbelievably difficult to promote. It's very hard to get good sponsors outside of the industry. Sponsorships inside the industry are tapped out, so if you don't have a long standing relationship with the business, you are out of luck. Can you imagine if you were a billiard related company, how many tournament directors and others would be banging down your door to get free merchandise from you? It's even hard to barter in this industry; everyone wants to barter and when that happens, nothing gets paid.

When we secure a beer/liquor company, this just means that they will work with the host location to give THEM better prices on their purchase for the incoming customers. So, when you see that we have a beer special of $2.00 per beer, this just means that the company has lowered the cost of the beer so the host can sell more at a volume. In addition, the beer/liquor company will supply signs and other items for the event with the name of the event and the special that they are pushing for that weekend. I was lucky to be able to get Budwesier to sponsor Earl Strickland for the Midwest Expo/Open. They completely took care of hosting him.

Let's first talk about what is required for running and promoting a successful event.

The major issue is to get the word out and make this tournament one that all would like to attend. This takes time and money, and someone has to do it. When you are running major national events, it's a full time job. If it's a smaller venue, it's still an unbelievable amount of work to do.

The tools of the trade consist of: a good computer with a high performance copier; one that has the capacity to keep enough memory to host a small city, a fax machine and small copy machine to duplicate registration forms with attached checks for your records, a gold card for one of your local office supply companies for the huge amount of reams of paper, pens, toners, cartridges, clips, file folders and so on..... Then there are the posters and other items that need to be done professionally at a huge ADDITIONAL expense.

Ok, here's the fun stuff... The monthly phone bill! Wowzers, would you like to trade? They have been in excess of $900 per month when we did the expo.

Furthermore, there is maxing out your credit card or savings account to hold the host hotel, resort or casino. Did you know that the host area requires a deposit ranging from $1,000 to $25,000 depending on where you are having the event? Remember, you don't get any interest accumulating while this money sits in the hands of the hotel. Also, there is an additional cost of insurance that the hotel requires to cover any damages occurred during the event which is in excess of thousands of dollars a year. If you don't meet the requirements of your room count, you loose your cash! You never get enough comped rooms to cover you and your staff. It's always additional rooms for which you end up paying, and there is no break for us since we have to pay the same rate that you do! Then there is paying the staff and feeding everyone. In some cases, we get some free food, but in most cases, we get discount tickets for staff. I like this comment I have heard from several, "Oh, they get a real nice suite in which to stay!" Sure we do, but who has a chance to use the thing? All you do is pass out from near exhaustion when you get to it.

Advertising... Ah yes the display ad! Let me give you a few figures here. For national coverage magazines, you bet you can expect to pay in excess of $600 to $1,500 for half and full page ads, and COLOR IS ADDITIONAL per month! For local state magazines papers, the cost of these range from approximately $75.00 to $600.00 and once again COLOR IS ADDITIONAL per month!

If you don't advertise like one promoter I know who didn't, you sit back and wonder why you're not getting the players. You loose your shirt and swear off ever doing another event while bashing the promoters who bust their hind ends to get the word out about their event. Jealously and sabotage run rampaged in this profession.

Here comes the bills for the banners and other related computer ads. First, let's find a good webmaster.... Oh boy that's a doozy. Finding someone who will update your site on a regular basis before the deadlines expire is priceless. Personally, we have gone through 4 webmasters to finally find a good one. I am not saying all webmasters are bad, don't think that.. I am just saying that finding a good one is hard to do, and you get what you pay for. Now these people don't work for free, so you have that monthly bill to add to your ever growing pile of bills per month. Webmasters can charge from $75.00 and up per month to maintain your site and at least $1000.00 to design it! Now, here comes the bills for the banner ads you have running on all billiard related sites. They start at $100 per month. Another cost is owning your domain name along with yearly fees of maintenance of the web site.

One can't forget direct mail! That's cost of paper, toners and stamps. If you have a mailing list like mine, we are talking 1000+ players at 37 cents each. That's $370.00 plus the cost of toner and paper, envelopes, stickers, and my time!

When you are hosting a national tournament where anyone can play, you have to reach all ends of the world to get the word out. It takes all of the above and more to make something like this happen. It takes at least a year of planning.

Now that you have some information (I could go on for pages), let's talk about the cost of bringing in the pool tables. For example, for a 40 table event (that's one truck load), you can expect to pay a minimum of $150 and up for each table. You can't just call and say I need 10 tables; it's a truck load or nothing. Now this does not apply to those who own their own tables, although I feel I am speaking for those who do, and they would NOT want to deliver only 16 or so tables. It's not worth their time..... This is why it has to be a truck load. Now let's add the cost of hanging the lights which in most cases is additional. Now let's add up the cost of the stolen cue balls and racks of balls in addition to racks and broken mechanisms. As the tournament promoter, I am responsible for all of the balls. When they get stolen, and they do on a consistent basis, I have to pay for them!

One can't forget tournament direction...... In my case, I do NOT play pool, I just promote the sport. Most of you know that Bob has played for many years so this is something that we felt we could do together. Bob wants to participate in the tournament, and I have other things to do during our event like "putting out forest fires with a garden hose."

I did tournament direction for about a year with Cecil Messer and GMPA Productions in Indiana. I found out quickly that it was something I did not want to do. It's an unbelievable amount of stress and tempers can fly quickly in addition to a lot of hours and many different personalties with which one has to deal. I will not disclose other tournament directors fees, but I can assure you that it can be in the thousands of dollars.

Here's another issue that most don't realize, if you are working a full time job and trying to promote a national venue, you can just expect to loose time and money. For example, Bob is an independent construction contractor. During the expo, I can't even tell you how many times he had to take days/weeks off and negotiate the contract or promote the tournament in some fashion. He did not get paid for all that time off!

Registration fees. Depending on what type of event you are promoting, you can expect to pay $10.00 and up for each event. This money goes to paying all of the above that I just mentioned. Registration fees can be adjusted to how many people are in the field. The more people you have in the tournament, the less you need for registration fees. You never know your final count until the day of the actual event. How many of you pool procrastinators show up last minute and expect to
enter? That is why a late fee was instilled. This was to help get a more accurate count of people who were dedicated to playing in the event were guaranteed a spot. The extra money from late fees helps pay all of the additional costs to the last minute entries. Whether or not you realize it, this causes another delay to the actual start time.

Since people are doing math these days, calculate some of the larger Vegas events. I think it may surprise you. Before you can do the math, you need all of the expenses in order to get your figures correct. I find it as a complete insult when people tell me they know how much I made because they did the math. HA! Ask me for all the records and bills associated with the event then open your mouth. My events have been successful because they worked, although I am in arrears for the promotion. This is something that takes time to establish because it is a business.

Added Money~ For example: In the expo, we added a total of $15,000. In the 8 ball, we added $31.00 per person, and we could do that from the other additional resources that accompanied the expo. With the Windy City Open, there were NO other resources to rely upon. Any added money had to come directly from our pockets.

Our intentions from the beginning of starting these events was to start a business. We were well aware of all of the hidden costs associated in running events but elected to go forth to establish the business. We expected to put money into the business at first and within a reasonable period of time start to make money from it. Should we not make money at some point? Would you work 24/7 with no pay?

100% Payback... The money has to come from some place to pay everything. You cannot expect for the promoters who DO NOT have cash sponsorships to be able to bring to you a 100% payback event. It's impossible. You cannot expect for the promoter to pay for all of the things I just mentioned out of pocket. I hope that some of you can understand this. We are working extremely hard to promote the sport with great hotel rates, food and beverage specials, and other fun things for you to participate. We do our very best with the payouts and the money that is available. With continued support and trust from this industry, we hope to continue to bring you these events.

In addition, I would like to thank all of you who have supported us. Our sincere appreciation goes out to you.

Eydie
 
sjm said:
This merits serious consideration as the single worst post in the history of the AZB forum.
My thoughts exactly!



CaptiveBred said:
68 RS/SS Big Block Convertable perhaps. And 70 is the last "true" year for Chevelles ;)

You have nice taste, BTW :)

A convertible would be SWEET! Not only was I born in '72 but a friend in high school had a '72 Chevelle SS that I fell in love with.

I'm just a redneck that loves watching muscle cars at the drag strip! :p You too, have nice taste. ;)
 
Eydie,

Thank you for merely scratching the surface when it comes to those issues. Bernie, did you play on any of the regional tours up there? Your bio says you have quite a list of accomplishments on the bar tables. Have you ever attended or participated or supported one of Eydie's events? Have you played on Mike's tour? I ask this because what Eydie wrote doesn't begin to even go into detail about the logistics that are involved with little or no cooperation from players, the industry, or the venues. It is extremely ignorant to sit back and say that nobody has done anything, but I've been on the phone with Eydie at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning talking over plans aimed at putting on a great event for the players. Eydie does this because she is dedicated to what she does, she is dedicated to the players and she works her ass off despite personal issues that arise along the way. As a player myself I am taken aback by your attitude and sort of ebarrassed by you. Its that attitude you are displaying now that caused the failure, not people like me or anyone else you want to look down upon now that have your IPT card.
 
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8-ball bernie said:
i'm glad mr. truedue is trying to control the pool world, and it wouldn't be such a bad thing if all the other tours go away. they had their chance, and they FAILED read my type they FAILED!!!!! it's just like right now the news is saying "oh my, it looks like ford and GM may go out of business because of japan" you know, i hope they go out of business, you know why?? because american automobiles suck!!! and japan makes the world's greatest automobiles, america had their chance at making good quality automobiles, and they FAILED!!! if i'm on the bottom 50 of the ipt and lose my tour card, GOOD! i tried, i had my chance, and i FAILED, i should be thrown off!!
I am sitting here imagining you sitting there at the keyboard pounding out that post all red faced almost unable to control your fingers as they hit the keys. As far as the content of the post I will let that speak for it's self. I can only say, is this really the example you want to set as one of the IPT players? You are something like 45 or 46 years old, act like it. Hope someone doesn't copy and email that to the IPT, you may find yourself on the outside looking in sooner then you think.
 
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i'm not out to hurt anyone. i am a loving warm decent human citizen. i understand running and promoting pool tournaments takes a lot of money and energy. i applaud everyone who ever organized a tournament. i apprciate anyone who has ever sold an idea, or sold a billiard related product,service or tournament. now, with that said, pool is currently dead, dead like hitler, dead like nixon, dead,dead dead, why not open the windows and let the morning sun shine in and get behind the promise that the ipt will send pool into the next years of our lifes, into something huge, exciting big, and stop it with complaining about the u.s.open and it's prescious heritage, no human soul outside of pool cares, heck no one outside of pool heard of the u.s. 9-ball open, can't you see the state of disarray we are in???? the boat is sinking and we are all gonna die, and kevin comes around with a big boat, welcoming us aboard, i want pool players to have respect. i am an ipt player, but let me tell ya, i ain't no mika immonen, or van den berg, i can't play anywhere near there speed, so i'm being honest, so you telling me that i'm an ego maniac because i have my tour card is FALSE!! i know where i stand. what i'm concerned with is the future of pool and it's pro players. i hated the color of money and the hustler because it promoted gambling and it made pool look shady, i want pool and it's players to be respected. i hope deerly that the ipt does that, because the us open and viking have not. i believe in stem cell research , because in the long run it's best for everyone who is and will be sick, that's my opinion, i believe in the ipt because of this~~~~ i feel it will be best for the entire state of cuesports.
 
8-ball bernie said:
i'm not out to hurt anyone. i am a loving warm decent human citizen. i understand running and promoting pool tournaments takes a lot of money and energy. i applaud everyone who ever organized a tournament. i apprciate anyone who has ever sold an idea, or sold a billiard related product,service or tournament. now, with that said, pool is currently dead, dead like hitler, dead like nixon, dead,dead dead, why not open the windows and let the morning sun shine in and get behind the promise that the ipt will send pool into the next years of our lifes, into something huge, exciting big, and stop it with complaining about the u.s.open and it's prescious heritage, no human soul outside of pool cares, heck no one outside of pool heard of the u.s. 9-ball open, can't you see the state of disarray we are in???? the boat is sinking and we are all gonna die, and kevin comes around with a big boat, welcoming us aboard, i want pool players to have respect. i am an ipt player, but let me tell ya, i ain't no mika immonen, or van den berg, i can't play anywhere near there speed, so i'm being honest, so you telling me that i'm an ego maniac because i have my tour card is FALSE!! i know where i stand. what i'm concerned with is the future of pool and it's pro players. i hated the color of money and the hustler because it promoted gambling and it made pool look shady, i want pool and it's players to be respected. i hope deerly that the ipt does that, because the us open and viking have not. i believe in stem cell research , because in the long run it's best for everyone who is and will be sick, that's my opinion, i believe in the ipt because of this~~~~ i feel it will be best for the entire state of cuesports.

Bernie, calm down man. I never said you were Mika. I wouldn't wish that on anybody (its a joke).

Let me tell you what I think of the US Open. First of all, it was the first major yournament that I ever went to. It was a big deal. It was the place that I first saw how great the game of pool could be.

I will never forget Louie Roberts joy the night that he won. I'll never forget David Howard's reaction when the 9 rolled in when he won his first US Open. I'll never forget an unranked midget from Florida going into the US Open and beating Johnny Archer not once but twice, 9-1 handily in one of the greatest upsets in history (yayyyy for TK from FLA). I'll never forget the look on Rodney Morris' face when he realized that he was out, the same thing when Reed Pierce got perfect on the match winning 9 ball. I remember when Efren won. I remember Ralf Souquet screaming in victory. Those are just the winners. That doesn't begin to scratch the surface of my own personal memories at the US Open. I'm sure there are a lot of people here that can add to what I am saying here.

Look at the names of the players that have achieved excellence at this event and won the greatest tournament in the history of the sport.

1976 Mike Sigel
1977 Allen Hopkins
1978 Steve Mizerak
1979 Louie Roberts
1980 Mike Sigel
1981 Allen Hopkins
1982 David Howard
1983 Mike Sigel
1984 Earl Strickland
1985 Jimmy Reid
1986 David Howard
1987 Earl Strickland
1988 Mike Lebron
1989 Nick Varner
1990 Nick Varner
1991 Buddy Hall
1992 Tommy Kennedy
1993 Earl Strickland
1994 Efren Reyes
1995 Reed Pierce
1996 Rodney Morris
1997 Earl Strickland
1998 Buddy Hall
1999 Johnny Archer
2000 Earl Strickland
2001 Corey Deuel
2002 Ralf Souquet
2003 Jeremy Jones
2004 Gabe Owen
2005 Alex Pagualayan
2006 ????

I fail to understand any of your reasoning for wanting to end this tradition "because everything failed" - that makes absolutely no sense.
 
what happened to pool being loved for the game and to be able to call your self the us open champion and be proud of it...now a days pool is all about money...i tell ya what if i ever won the us open i would hold that trophy high above my head and be proud and not care how much the check was i was recieving...just my thoughts
 
8-ball bernie said:
i'm glad mr. truedue is trying to control the pool world, and it wouldn't be such a bad thing if all the other tours go away. they had their chance, and they FAILED read my type they FAILED!!!!! it's just like right now the news is saying "oh my, it looks like ford and GM may go out of business because of japan" you know, i hope they go out of business, you know why?? because american automobiles suck!!! and japan makes the world's greatest automobiles, america had their chance at making good quality automobiles, and they FAILED!!! if i'm on the bottom 50 of the ipt and lose my tour card, GOOD! i tried, i had my chance, and i FAILED, i should be thrown off!!

PLEASE READ THIS BERNIE.

---------
Emmotional Swaying From The I.p.t.
hi my name is bernie friend, and i am fortunate to have been accepted as one of the 150 players for the i.p.t. my mind has been swaying like a weeping willow in a storm, over being invited. at first when i got the news i was really excited and happy. later i called my parents to tell them, and they said, why don't you save your money and stay home, you can't beat the pros. i hung up, and soon after got a cold, they emmotionally wore me down. then my wife brought me back around and said, i have faith in your ability, go and play your heart out. there is a lot to think about. i figure it will cost around $1000 to go down to orlando:~ hotel fees for 5 nights, air fare, taxi's food and drink, not to mention the $200 entry fee and that's just for the players meeting! on the other hand, there could be BIG things that are great that can happen. yeah, i might not beat the greatest player on earth marlon manalo, but maybe i could beat loree jon jones, (not that that would mean much), p.s. i already beat her in 8-ball in november 1986 long island n.y. at an exhibition. anyway, where was i? oh, yeah all in all the tour sounds great. i excell at 8-ball, i prefer round robin, i appreciate the fact the women pros are playing and feel confident allison fisher will always be in the top 10. i am excited and happy, yet i sometimes go through self doubt as any non-pro would, when facing to play 70 of the world's greatest pros. i figure, if i come in at #39, i'd be quite pleased with myself, considering the field. also, if they are filming for a reality show, i'm a big ham, and hope to be center stage sort of speak, and last but not least, i really and trully hope to talk to kevin about being a commentator. so to sum up, all of this is a far reaching dream, which half of me say's "don't do it, your extending yourself" and the other half say's " GO BERNIE GO!!!!!!!!!!!
------

That was the first post you made here. What happened to that nice humble guy who got all the encouragement. No matter how you look at it the IPT will be a controversy magnet as will KT and much of it will take place right here. Try not to take it so much to heart and effect who you are.
 
Tours ....

The IPT is great for Pool, and I believe, will effect many changes throughout, but I want the other tours to do well too, in fact, better than they have in the past. It, all, is good for Pool. The big money tours will draw the variety of Pros we like to watch, and the lessor tours can be springboards for new players to make a name for themselves. As I have stated before, I think the semipro level needs more definition, recognition, and events for playing, more so like golf is today. I am for promoting the sport of Pool, and that includes everyone out there working hard to make our sport something to be proud of.
 
Blackjack said:
Bernie, calm down man. I never said you were Mika. I wouldn't wish that on anybody (its a joke).

Let me tell you what I think of the US Open. First of all, it was the first major yournament that I ever went to. It was a big deal. It was the place that I first saw how great the game of pool could be.

I will never forget Louie Roberts joy the night that he won. I'll never forget David Howard's reaction when the 9 rolled in when he won his first US Open. I'll never forget an unranked midget from Florida going into the US Open and beating Johnny Archer not once but twice, 9-1 handily in one of the greatest upsets in history (yayyyy for TK from FLA). I'll never forget the look on Rodney Morris' face when he realized that he was out, the same thing when Reed Pierce got perfect on the match winning 9 ball. I remember when Efren won. I remember Ralf Souquet screaming in victory. Those are just the winners. That doesn't begin to scratch the surface of my own personal memories at the US Open. I'm sure there are a lot of people here that can add to what I am saying here.

Look at the names of the players that have achieved excellence at this event and won the greatest tournament in the history of the sport.

1976 Mike Sigel
1977 Allen Hopkins
1978 Steve Mizerak
1979 Louie Roberts
1980 Mike Sigel
1981 Allen Hopkins
1982 David Howard
1983 Mike Sigel
1984 Earl Strickland
1985 Jimmy Reid
1986 David Howard
1987 Earl Strickland
1988 Mike Lebron
1989 Nick Varner
1990 Nick Varner
1991 Buddy Hall
1992 Tommy Kennedy
1993 Earl Strickland
1994 Efren Reyes
1995 Reed Pierce
1996 Rodney Morris
1997 Earl Strickland
1998 Buddy Hall
1999 Johnny Archer
2000 Earl Strickland
2001 Corey Deuel
2002 Ralf Souquet
2003 Jeremy Jones
2004 Gabe Owen
2005 Alex Pagualayan
2006 ????

I fail to understand any of your reasoning for wanting to end this tradition "because everything failed" - that makes absolutely no sense.


what happened to pool being loved for the game and to be able to call your self the us open champion and be proud of it...now a days pool is all about money...i tell ya what if i ever won the us open i would hold that trophy high above my head and be proud and not care how much the check was i was recieving...just my thoughts


Its great to finally see some posts on thsi board from players that don't just worship money! I think its very sad that many years scraping a living in pool has eaten away at some of the pro's passion for glory. If it's just about money then its just another job! It was good to see that Alex atleast had both the WPC and US Open as two of his three ambitions in life. Maybe this is what seperates him from some of the rest and has made him the champion that he is. Hey I even got a message from a guy in Denmark who also agrees that there's more to pool than money, there's hope for our sport yet! :D

I would swap 1 US Open or WPC title for ten years of mediocracy and earning a decent living on the IPT, but that's just me. I beleive in 50 years time (if the IPT doesn't kill them both) we'll remember past US Open and WPC champions more than any IPT tournament winner.

People say "don't worry about the quality of players on the current 150, wait a few years and the cream will rise to the top". I say why wait, there's at least another 75 qualifiers to be held this year, lower the entries, stop this kick back class system and truly open up the IPT to the BEST players in the world.

People say, "to hell with the US Open and WPA, they had their chance!". I say "why can't the players have both? KT said he wants the players to play on other tours, then he targets the top events in world pool. Stop this and let the players enjoy a truly full calendar of world class events"


If the IPT did both of these simple measures they would have a lot more supportes from people outsdie the hand picked 150. I also truly believe that non-IPT events would retain the star players participation and prize money and interest would increase which would benifit EVERYONE.
 
Hey People,

Do you realize that Bernie is just saying the same thing about the local tours that the nay sayers are saying about the IPT.

You don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

And Edyie, why slam Bernie? He really is a nice guy who is just trying to make it in the pool world like everyone else. He has received his 15 minutes of fame that we all look for and he is trying to make the best of it. I compliment him for it.

And Edyie if you are losing so much money running the tour why do you keep running it? If it is not making money then obviously you are doing something wrong. Hey, run a calcutta. Become a bookie.

Mike Janis must have done things right since he is able to retire off the profits he made on his tours. Too bad the players can't say the same thing.

Yes, Bernie is right, the tours should go by the wayside as they will when the IPT is successful. Of course the players will go where the money is. As they should. That is why they play. To earn a living, not to be stooges for us fans. And slaves that Tournament Directors can make money off by holding Calcuttas on them. Everyone makes money except the players.

And competition is what runs our society. The local bar here has been holding a $10 tourney, no handicap, anybody can play and it is fairly successful. So what did the other bar in town do? They now hold a $10 tourney, race to 5-3, no handicap on the same day. Do you think they care that they are hurting their competition? Hell no, that is the idea.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
Hey People,

Do you realize that Bernie is just saying the same thing about the local tours that the nay sayers are saying about the IPT.

You don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

And Edyie, why slam Bernie? He really is a nice guy who is just trying to make it in the pool world like everyone else. He has received his 15 minutes of fame that we all look for and he is trying to make the best of it. I compliment him for it.

And Edyie if you are losing so much money running the tour why do you keep running it? If it is not making money then obviously you are doing something wrong. Hey, run a calcutta. Become a bookie.

Mike Janis must have done things right since he is able to retire off the profits he made on his tours. Too bad the players can't say the same thing.

Yes, Bernie is right, the tours should go by the wayside as they will when the IPT is successful. Of course the players will go where the money is. As they should. That is why they play. To earn a living, not to be stooges for us fans. And slaves that Tournament Directors can make money off by holding Calcuttas on them. Everyone makes money except the players.

And competition is what runs our society. The local bar here has been holding a $10 tourney, no handicap, anybody can play and it is fairly successful. So what did the other bar in town do? They now hold a $10 tourney, race to 5-3, no handicap on the same day. Do you think they care that they are hurting their competition? Hell no, that is the idea.

Jake


You lost me on that one. Hypothetically, how does shutting down all the other tournaments benefit the players? Lets say it happens and the IPT becomes the king of pool, what have they gained? Pool rooms will benefit, manufactures will benefit they may even get it on TV and draw in a few more players to the sport. I will still go to the pool room and play so will you and for the millions of players who never have or never will play in a tournament life goes on. We are back to the only ones getting screw again are the pro players, of course except for the selected few. It makes no sense.

In fact KT should be supporting the small tournaments maybe even underwriting them and getting the media rights to them. It would just add to his pool empire. and he would have control even outside of his IPT world. Big companies don't so much crush their competition, they buy up or absorb them, they want their business. In this case there is no business for KT to gain from the destruction of the other tournaments and tours because the IPT operates as an entity unto itself, they gain nothing from the demise of other tours, they just hurt the innocent who in this case are the players aspiring to be future pros themselves. That is where the largest controversy lies, it makes no sense.
 
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macguy said:
You lost me on that one. Hypothetically, how does shutting down all the other tournaments benefit the players? Lets say it happens and the IPT becomes the king of pool, what have they gained? Pool rooms will benefit, manufactures will benefit they may even get it on TV and draw in a few more players to the sport. I will still go to the pool room and play so will you and for the millions of players who never have or never will play in a tournament life goes on. We are back to the only ones getting screw again are the pro players, of course except for the selected few. It makes no sense.

In fact KT should be supporting the small tournaments maybe even underwriting them and getting the media rights to them. It would just add to his pool empire. and he would have control even outside of his IPT world. Big companies don't so much crush their competition, they buy up or absorb them, they want their business. In this case there is no business for KT to gain from the destruction of the other tournaments and tours because the IPT operates as an entity unto itself, they gain nothing from the demise of other tours, they just hurt the innocent who in this case are the players aspiring to be future pros themselves. That is where the largest controversy lies, it makes no sense.

Macguy and I have disagreed in the past, but he is spot ON with this statement.

Jake, you and I have corresponded for many years now and I a perplexed on how you can defend Bernie with his over the top, just plain nasty opinion on other tours. His 15 minutes of fame should consist of thanks to all that have held this sport together for many years so that there is now a bigger and better venue for a selected few.

Bo and I have lost a considerable amount of money with these venues as I have stated, but what you missed is the fact that KT is now in debt over these events, I guarantee you, he has not come close to making up what he has put into the IPT. Look at the hidden costs that I have, can you imagine what overhead he has? BUT, the difference between him and me, is that he has the funds to put out without it effecting his personal life, as it has mine. He as me, have a genuine love for the game, I believe this and THAT is why he is doing it. I doubt that was for him to become rich, because he already is. So it is wonderful that he has the interest and funds to promote it.. :)

So back again to Bernie's insensitive statement to all of us that have been there before KT, how is it possible to defend such a misguided completely idiotic and hurtful statement such as that?

We have been in business many years now just like Dawn and Allen Hopkins, Barry Behrman, Mike Janis, KPB, McDermott, Dragon Productions and others. It is our devotion to this sport that is what have kept it alive all these years. All of these tours and shows strive to make it better for everyone each year. So, now Bernie states that we are all just crap and should go away because the IPT is here? Wow, that's a hard pill to swallow. :rolleyes:

I wish KT and the IPT the very best of luck as I do all the other promoters in this business. I sincerely hope that it does well. I just hope that the IPT will work with the promoters as the promoters have worked with each other for years now. Bernie, putting anyone out of business is a travisty for all in this industry, I cannot fathom anyone wishing that upon anyone else. How can you be so narrow minded?
 
macguy said:
In fact KT should be supporting the small tournaments maybe even underwriting them and getting the media rights to them. It would just add to his pool empire. and he would have control even outside of his IPT world. Big companies don't so much crush their competition, they buy up or absorb them, they want their business. In this case there is no business for KT to gain from the destruction of the other tournaments and tours because the IPT operates as an entity unto itself, they gain nothing from the demise of other tours, they just hurt the innocent who in this case are the players aspiring to be future pros themselves. That is where the largest controversy lies, it makes no sense.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying.

However, one can also make the argument that having the IPT "step on the toes" of other tours/tournaments can actually benefit the aspiring and future pros. If all the grade-A pro players participate in the IPT events, then that makes winning the other tournaments that much easier to win. Therefore, these grade-B pros are much more likely to win prize money in these tournaments compared to their chances with all the Efrens, Archers, and Hohmanns participating. These tour/tournaments can be viewed as the "minor league" of pool, such that they can give the aspiring pool players a better chance of winning some cash. If you look at it this way, the IPT taking away the upper-echelon pros from these tournaments can actually be a good thing for pool by indirectly fostering the up-and-coming stars.

Of course, this hypothesis relies on the assumption that the other tours/tournaments maintain the same sponsorship and audience. If they can still maintain the same sponsorship, audience, and prize money, even without the participation of pool's biggest stars, then this can actually be a good thing for pool. It is a big IF of course.
 
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Note: the following post is going on the assumption that the scheduling conflicts were not an oversight by the IPT, being that an immediate apology or change of date was not issued.

To me, there's no good reason for squashing wonderful tournaments like the US Open. The US Open has not failed, but rather grown each year in attendence, player quality, prize money, prestige and notoriety. What it has lacked is the media resources and capital to burst onto the national scene overnight as the IPT has. Does that make it a failure? No. Berry Behrman should be commended and supported by fellow industry members for creating and nurturing one of pool's institutions. Sure there have been stumbling blocks (UPA scandal in particular), but no one is without fault and the success of the 2005 Open is testament to its recovery.

I see the scheduling conflict as an act of aggression and greed towards the pool industry. In their early media releases, the IPT made clear their intentions to "live and let live" so-to-speak. These recent events lead me to believe that they intend to seize the players with their lucrative lure, and effectively monopolize the tournament calendar.

Dismissing well-revered tournaments as failures or second-rate events because they don't match up with the IPT is not really fair. It has taken a multi-millionaire mogul to accomplish what the IPT has in terms of pro pool exposure and player compensation. Are we so shocked that blue-collar tournament organizers, collective or individual, have not been able to do so in the past?
 
8-ball bernie said:
i'm glad mr. truedue is trying to control the pool world, and it wouldn't be such a bad thing if all the other tours go away. they had their chance, and they FAILED read my type they FAILED!!!!! it's just like right now the news is saying "oh my, it looks like ford and GM may go out of business because of japan" you know, i hope they go out of business, you know why?? because american automobiles suck!!! and japan makes the world's greatest automobiles, america had their chance at making good quality automobiles, and they FAILED!!! if i'm on the bottom 50 of the ipt and lose my tour card, GOOD! i tried, i had my chance, and i FAILED, i should be thrown off!!

This a perfect example of why I question the IPT player list. This guy and a gentleman like Mike Zuglan are both from the NY area. The IPT chooses this clown while a class act like Mike Zuglan is going to have to qualify to play. Give me a break people.

George
 
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