Old shaft wood vs. New shaft wood

SpotOn

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I would like to here what the cue makers think about using OLD house cues cutting them in half and just saving the front half assuming the shaft is dead straight. Would that make a good shaft if reworked compared to New hard rock maple OR is the old wood maybe not as good as new wood. I figure since the wood is so old and straight it is very stable thus now worries about it warping. Also how would you know a good prospect from a not so good prospect assuming any one piece cue has usable wood?
 

tsp&b

Well-known member
Silver Member
Some old house cues can be used to make shafts. Some make very good hitting shafts. And many cue makers will use them to make conversions (sneaky pete) especially old burnswicks.
 

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shaft wood

Straightness, cleanness, direction of grain :) same as any other shaft wood except more than likely darker color.

Mario
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not worth the time imo.
First of all, those were turned to size really fast by factories .
I've never seen one that was straight.
They also have a steep taper.

New shaft in my shop takes 5 years before it gets out anyway.
I have hundreds at 13.25mm to 14mm now.
And the main thing is, I chose where their center holes are .

If you chop a house cue for shaft, you're like have no room to offset the piece to get to it's true center. At the factory, they just turn them from square to round then taper with no regard for grain orientation.
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Gold Member
Silver Member
Not worth the time imo.
First of all, those were turned to size really fast by factories .
I've never seen one that was straight.
They also have a steep taper.

New shaft in my shop takes 5 years before it gets out anyway.
I have hundreds at 13.25mm to 14mm now.
And the main thing is, I chose where their center holes are .

If you chop a house cue for shaft, you're like have no room to offset the piece to get to it's true center. At the factory, they just turn them from square to round then taper with no regard for grain orientation.

The older Brunswick cues really nailed the grain orientation
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
I've done quite a few of them. Almost all have turned out very nicely. They've almost all been out of pretty old Valley or Dufferin house cues. I've done a few that customers brought me that were really old, like 70 years.
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
And the main thing is, I chose where their center holes are .
Wouldn't that require really large squares or dowels? On a 1 inch dowel, you can probably only change the angle of the grain along the shaft a couple degrees.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wouldn't that require really large squares or dowels? On a 1 inch dowel, you can probably only change the angle of the grain along the shaft a couple degrees.

I get mine at 1 1/16.
There's plenty to work with at 5/8 ends.
I don't bother with .950-.750 cones anymore.

At 5/8 ends, you can get rid of a lot of "bad guys".
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I get mine at 1 1/16.
There's plenty to work with at 5/8 ends.
I don't bother with .950-.750 cones anymore.

At 5/8 ends, you can get rid of a lot of "bad guys".

So you start cutting your taper in from the jump?
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So you start cutting your taper in from the jump?

JC

Yes.
If I cone to .750, I'd have less offset room.
Coning is a waste of time imo.
I know some people already doing the same thing and have not gone back to coning to .750.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes.
If I cone to .750, I'd have less offset room.
Coning is a waste of time imo.
I know some people already doing the same thing and have not gone back to coning to .750.

Agreed, coning is a waste of time.

If a shaft will be completed with a Pro taper, every turn will be like a Pro Taper. If a shaft will end up with a Conical taper, every turn will be in Conical form. (Going from square to round does not count.)
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
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Silver Member
Funny but true story. In 2005 I placed a 6 cue order with a cuemaker and I went to his shop to look at his shaft blanks. His wood was from the "kind regards" Florida fellow who was then in Las Vegas. The shaftwood was horrible with runout, sugar streaks and brown. I was just learning about maple shaftwood then but I knew what straight grain and clear meant. The cuemaker agreed to provide an allowance for better shafts if I could find them.

I took a drive to our local Valley distributor and picked out about 18 Valley Supremes (Texas made) out of maybe 100 that were in a barrel. They were about $8 each. The shafts that were used were decent or better and stayed straight. I laugh now as I think about it. Hehe. For the next order, I called Pechauer cues and bought blanks a few turns from finish for $25 each. They were really nice. Hat's off to the Pechauer guys.
 

ThinSlice

AzB Gold Member
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Silver Member
Funny but true story. In 2005 I placed a 6 cue order with a cuemaker and I went to his shop to look at his shaft blanks. His wood was from the "kind regards" Florida fellow who was then in Las Vegas. The shaftwood was horrible with runout, sugar streaks and brown. I was just learning about maple shaftwood then but I knew what straight grain and clear meant. The cuemaker agreed to provide an allowance for better shafts if I could find them.



I took a drive to our local Valley distributor and picked out about 18 Valley Supremes (Texas made) out of maybe 100 that were in a barrel. They were about $8 each. The shafts that were used were decent or better and stayed straight. I laugh now as I think about it. Hehe. For the next order, I called Pechauer cues and bought blanks a few turns from finish for $25 each. They were really nice. Hat's off to the Pechauer guys.



Best shafts are not always clear.


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CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Best shafts are not always clear.


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Perhaps you could elaborate on that?

I have worked with wood in many ways, the word clear is a word that is standard thru out all industries that use wood.

From the logger, log truck driver, sawyer, grader, seller, engineer and end user, the word clear is a standardized word to all of these people.

Again, maybe the word means something different to you, enlighten us, Thanks.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Perhaps you could elaborate on that?

I have worked with wood in many ways, the word clear is a word that is standard thru out all industries that use wood.

From the logger, log truck driver, sawyer, grader, seller, engineer and end user, the word clear is a standardized word to all of these people.

Again, maybe the word means something different to you, enlighten us, Thanks.

Maybe he means sugar? I've seen some awfully nice shafts with a sugar mark or two.
 
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Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps you could elaborate on that?

I have worked with wood in many ways, the word clear is a word that is standard thru out all industries that use wood.

From the logger, log truck driver, sawyer, grader, seller, engineer and end user, the word clear is a standardized word to all of these people.

Again, maybe the word means something different to you, enlighten us, Thanks.

I tried to find the definition of clear wood, just found this... Pretty cool though, wonder if anyone ever did a cue like this or if it wouldn't work.

https://www.businessinsider.com/clear-wood-university-of-maryland-video-2016-5 <-----"Engineers have made clear wood that's stronger than plain wood"

Anyways, what is clear wood?
 

ThinSlice

AzB Gold Member
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I tried to find the definition of clear wood, just found this... Pretty cool though, wonder if anyone ever did a cue like this or if it wouldn't work.

https://www.businessinsider.com/clear-wood-university-of-maryland-video-2016-5 <-----"Engineers have made clear wood that's stronger than plain wood"

Anyways, what is clear wood?



Cool! May want to watch the interview with Ernie from Gina Cue. He talks about the bleaching of the wood and how it burns the layers. Obviously he isn’t putting resin in the shafts. Wonder what it does to the weight.


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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cool! May want to watch the interview with Ernie from Gina Cue. He talks about the bleaching of the wood and how it burns the layers. Obviously he isn’t putting resin in the shafts. Wonder what it does to the weight.


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Ernie himself said the best shafts are off-white and might have sugars.
Because his cues are show cues, his customers expect clean white shafts.

One infamous ( now ) maker started this white shafts thingie. He claimed he had the whitest shafts. Turns out they were bleached.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tried to find the definition of clear wood, just found this... Pretty cool though, wonder if anyone ever did a cue like this or if it wouldn't work.

https://www.businessinsider.com/clear-wood-university-of-maryland-video-2016-5 <-----"Engineers have made clear wood that's stronger than plain wood"

Anyways, what is clear wood?



Very glad you asked, if you did not ask, you could go thru life believing that I am talking about wood that you can see thru, not the case at all.

It simply means CLEAR of defects.

When a log is cut, the cut pieces pass by the lumber grader, he has to quickly determine the value of the wood based upon it's quality. A piece with many knots and grain that runs off the piece would be about a number 4. If it only has one knot but the knot of over 1/3 the width of the board, it's a 3 or 4. IF it has two knots on opposite sides of the board, both knots are less then one third the width BUT a straight line drawn up the board cannot stretch between the knots without touching them, it's a 3 or 4. If those two knots are small enough that a straight line can travel up the board and still leave 1/3 width without touching the other two knots, it may qualify for a 2.

If a piece has zero knots and the grain stays on the board for more than 2/3 of the board, it may qualify as a number one. When grain runs off within `1/3 of the board, it's about a 3 at best.

When a board has straight enough grain that one grain can run end to end, the same board has zero knots or holes, it's most likely sold as CLEAR.

Clear is the top quality of wood. When a Sawyer has a clear log, he may decide to quarter or rift saw the material for best quality cuts, that's a different lecture.

When all is clear, a Cuemakers job now begins.

A light amount of sugar marks will not kill a grade at this point, A Cuemaker may weed them out if too many streaks are showing.

Many end uses make their own grading system beyond this as clear and clear select (when a person hand selects the board) are the top prices coming out of the lumber yard

Clear can mean what I see on many shafts, about 5 straight grains per inch but guess what? A good cuemaker will throw out the 5 grains per inch, my guarantee is a minimum of 15 grains per inch.


Bleaching is not allowed on my shafts.

Many good comments on this thread, great job to all who participated.
 
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