On Chuck Bobbitt...

"He's making a list
Checking it twice..."

Mike

BVal said:
I know my name can go on the list of "beat Mike on the table" :D:D

Please keep it off the ban list though.

Thanks,

BVal
 
Roger,

After reading your post, i certainly had to respond, as i feel it was directed at three people in particular, (myself, Jimmy Mendoza, and Ron Merseal), and i hope i am wrong! Please forgive me if I am. But, sometimes it's a good idea to let everyone know who your post is directed towards, so that people don't feel like you are targeting them, when in fact, you may not be.

If it were directed and me and Jimmy, my response is:

While i have not known Chuck as long as you have, I have known him for a few years, and yes i have come to learn that he is in love with pool and is willing to do anything he can to help support it, not just do it to be accepted by the "upper-echelon" players. I would agee, he would never try to cheat anyone out of anything.

The only events he currently supports locally are the Desert Dust Off (ran by Ron Merseal), as well as the Arizona Desert Classic Tour (ran by myself and Jimmy Mendoza). Just to clear it up a bit, neither the two of us "small-time promoters" on the Tour, nor Ron Merseal, view Chuck Bobbitt as a feeding trough! As for the tour, I have several sponsors, not just one. The majority of which do it for the love of the game and to support the pool scene here in the Phoenix area, just as Chuck does. Chuck decided he wanted to be part of the Arizona Desert Classic Tour, as did the other sponsors, when we approached them. Typically, as a sponsor, you assist a tour by offering whatever services you can. In Chuck's case, he offered to be the title sponsor and give up cash at each event.

As far as the Desert Dust Off, this is undoubtedly, the largest and most successful pool event ever put together in Arizona in the ten plus years i have been here. Ron Merseal does great things for pool in Arizona. I challenge you to find one other person in this state who supports every player in this state the way he does. I'm not saying that others don't, but not on the scale that he does. Sorry, it doesn't happen.

I sense this is all about the two camps that have always existed in Arizona when it comes to pool. You know just as well as i do, that it exists. Again, probably out of jealousy, for each other's successes. If everyone would work together, this state would be much more successful. That's a fact! Jimmy and I do our part, why can't everyone else?

To my knowledge, neither Jimmy nor I, have gone back to Chuck and asked for more. Many of the additional sponsors, including Jimmy and I, do not view the tour as "a money loser". While it is done NON Profit, we don't do it for the money. We all do it for the love of the game and to give back a little something to the sport. It is nice have an organized tour/tourney here in the state of Arizona, despite what others think. Quite frankly, I think a lot of the people who have become our critics (and their aren't many), are jealous of the success it has had at such an early stage.

As for not caring what Chuck's problems are, i would disagree. I know Chuck on a personal level and have always considered him a friend. On many occassions, he has asked me to help him with things, and vice versa, and I'm sure Ron and Jimmy have done the same.

I agree with you in that I don't think this was an idea hatched by Chuck alone. I will be the first to tell you that as one of his friends, i did encourage this event, as did just about every player, spectator, promoter, and room owner in the valley. Why wouldn't someone encourage a tournament of this magnitude for the Phoenix area. I can tell you why. Because the people who wouldn't, are the same ones who sit around doing nothing to promote pool in Arizona. The same ones who scam the ratings system to put the odds in their favor, so they can make money in local tournaments. The same ones who don't want players to get better, for fear they may never have a chance in a tourney. The lazy ones who do nothing for pool.

I talked to Chuck about this Shootout many times. I'm not quite sure you did, but i could be wrong. From what i was told, this was Chuck's idea and it was a great one. I don't believe that any of his friends and/or associates knew the financial state of his business, nor did they ever consider that the funds were not available for the tourney. Perfect example, Jimmy and I ponied up our entry fees for the tourney. Furthermore, as i posted in another thread, it cost me over $1600 dollars to play due to time lost at work. I did it to support the tourney and pool in Arizona. Do you think i would have played, not knowing the funds were not available? or Jimmy? or any other friends/associates who were in attendance. I think you know us better than that? Are you saying that his friends and associates were wrong for encouraging this event, not knowing the financial situation? If so, that would be ridiculous!

Chuck did make a mistake by not cancelling this event, if in fact, he knew for sure the funds were not available. I don't have all of the facts and I am not taking sides here. The upsetting part is that he has led the players on a wild goose chase and has been avoiding Jay's calls, and/or making excuses. That is the part that irks the people the most. If other people were involved and removed the money from his account, without him knowing, that is a simple explanation that would be understood by many. The fact is, this is not happening. I believe that is a much larger mistake on Chuck's part. Blaming him for taking bad advice from his friends and associates is not where he made the mistake. What bad advice? Had he revealed that the money was not available (if that is the case), i KNOW for a fact that I would have encouraged him to cancel, as would Jimmy and Ron, and any other person he calls a friend. That's common sense. I would never let a friend fail at such a huge feat. I think you know me and I'm not that type of person.

Your last comment is right on track. I also believe he is going to do everything in his power to try to make this right by everybody, although is should have never happened in the first place. Checks and balances should have been put in place to ensure the money was available. And you are correct, Chuck would never try to run off with anyone's money, and he won't run from the consquences of his mistake.

Again, if this post was directed at others, then i apologize. Thanks for reading and sorry for the length of the post.

Dennis Orender
 
bfdlad said:
Jay I love what you are trying to do but Please leave the players financial situations out of this forum please.

I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else by revealing some personal details. But I'm not a very happy camper right now. :(
 
jay helfert said:
I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else by revealing some personal details. But I'm not a very happy camper right now. :(
you have every right not to be.
 
bfdlad said:
Jay I love what you are trying to do but Please leave the players financial situations out of this forum please.


Usually I would agree with that...but in this case I think it may be important to realize what EXACTLY happens to the players that get stiffed in these events.

I think JAY makes a very good point to why it is so important why the players actually get paid at the end of an event.....

They all have bills to pay also...and not many have anyone to bail them out......Yes...this is the job they have chosen...but it sucks to show up to work and find out at the end of the week your not giong to get paid........Yes I have been there and had that happen....

Let me tell you it is VERY distressing......especially when you are short money in the first place.
 
AzHousePro said:
Wow, now that is brutal. Where is that "ban" button at?

:)

Mike
Sorry man, I could not resist. I take it all back, Sorry to everyone for bashing Mike. Mike is probably the best 5 rated player in the state. I hope that fixes things now take your hand off the ban button please :)
 
bfdlad said:
Sorry man, I could not resist. I take it all back, Sorry to everyone for bashing Mike. Mike is probably the best 5 rated player in the state. I hope that fixes things now take your hand off the ban button please :)
I am not an expert but I don't think that helped any :)

BVal
 
BRKNRUN said:
Usually I would agree with that...but in this case I think it may be important to realize what EXACTLY happens to the players that get stiffed in these events.

I think JAY makes a very good point to why it is so important why the players actually get paid at the end of an event.....

They all have bills to pay also...and not many have anyone to bail them out......Yes...this is the job they have chosen...but it sucks to show up to work and find out at the end of the week your not giong to get paid........Yes I have been there and had that happen....

Let me tell you it is VERY distressing......especially when you are short money in the first place.
I know what you mean and I have spoken with Jay a few times latley. I believe and agree with what he is doing I just think that these guys are heros to some people and don't need to know certain things. This is only mu opinion and I will leave it there, I know that Jay will make the right decsions with everything he is doing. I hope he did not take offence to this.
 
I'm hearin' ya

Hey, guys, I'm hearing what you have to say, and I'm appreciating your viewpoints.

Please let it be known that I am not condoning any wrongdoing here. I feel bad for all of those who got hurt, and they have every right to pursue payment through legal channels.

But my original point was this: While I was reading the nasty name calling and vicious comments in the other thread about Chuck, it occured to me that he could not possibly have hatched this idea all on his own. He must have had help and encouragement of some sort along the way. Problem is, I don't know who they were any more than you do; I only know that they must have existed. That is, unless Chuck just decided one day that he was going to go from small-time sponsor to big-time promoter all on his own. But I don't think that happened. I think someone else must have told Chuck that they had experience in promoting professional events, and if Chuck would just put up X-number of dollars, then they could run a successful tournament (defined as turning a profit for themselves and everyone else involved). So my question now is, where are those people now? Did they leave Arizona altogether, as Jimmy has suggested? Not that it makes any difference from a legal standpoint; but it would be nice to know just so everyone else might have a little understanding and compassion towards Chuck (he is still a fellow human being, you know). But so far, the only people to demonstrate any genuine compassion for this man have been JAM and Ken (brknrun).

And for Dennis, Jimmy, and Ken:

You are right, we have had two differing political camps in Arizona for a long time. And locally, it has been no secret that the three of you have been in one of those camps, while I have been in the other. Heck, even Chuck has been in your camp! But I'm happy to say that I have not intentionally tried to hurt any of you, and I'm just as happy to say that I believe none of you have intentionally tried to hurt me. Right now, I just wish we could set aside our political differences and try to find some way to help Chuck make this right with those who have been wronged. Instead, when something like this happens, we seem to grow further apart, rather than pulling closer together. I know it's been suggested that I put up the 30k myself, and believe me, I wish I could do that. Sad fact is, I have a problem coming up with $30 these days, let alone 30K! But it seems to me that we should be able to do something as a community. After all, these excellent players, and the excellent TD, came to Arizona and put on an excellent show for the benefit of all of us. Don't we, as a community, owe them something for that?

God Bless.

Roger Long
 
Fuzzy Math

jay helfert said:
Chuck received fully paid entries from 60 players. That is 60 times $400 each for a total of $24,000.
In addition he collected all the money at the gate, which I estimate to be in excess of $10,000 easily. And there were many raffle tickets sold on a Diamond table that was awarded on Sunday. He did pay out approx. $15,000 to the bottom positions in the pay scale on Saturday. Where the rest of the money went, I have no idea. You do the math!

Roger,

Read the quote. At first I was agreeing with JAM. Maybe he simply mis-calculated, but this is starting to sound like larceny to me. I would really like to hear Chuck's explanation. Does he post here at all?

Ray
 
Roger Long said:
And for Dennis, Jimmy, and Ken:

You are right, we have had two differing political camps in Arizona for a long time. And locally, it has been no secret that the three of you have been in one of those camps, while I have been in the other. Heck, even Chuck has been in your camp!


Please elaborate as to which camp i am in, because i am not sure which one it is. Now that i have been raised to the point I have no tournaments to compete in, only a select few establishments offer tournaments for us higher rated players. So i guess you are insenuating that because i play at these establishments, i am "in their camp", or because i played in the Olhausen All Around, i am in that camp. Well, i really had no choice. Hence, the reason for the Az. Desert Classic Tour, a tournament for everyone.

Let me set the record straight. I don't belong to any camp! I try to support everyone that plays pool in Arizona, and wish everyone else would do the same. I don't understand why there has to be this "competition" among everyone that owns establishments.

Hopefully, the future will be brighter in Arizona! Let me ask, would you or anyone else you know like to be a sponsor on the tour? It would be supporting pool statewide, for everyone. And before you ask, no, we don't consider it a camp here.

Dennis
 
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I think the Desert Dust Off should have been sanctioned by the GAB (Professional Sports Athletic Board) in the Phillipines. THEY would have made sure the players were protected. :-)
 
And just one more question and then i will be done with this thread. If you belong to a camp and i belong to a different camp as you say, how many times have i come out and supported your efforts in bringing Tommy Kennedy to town. I believe i have supported you several times over, paid to play him for charity, etc...versus....how many Classic tour events have you attended and supported?....0. That doesn't upset me, as i realize you may have a different outlook on how pool should be in Arizona. We are trying to do the right thing, and I hope everyone sees that. Hopefully, you will come out and support us as well. We are not affiliated with any camps. Again, we support trying to make pool better for everyone, and we like to be surrounded by people who want to do the same. People like Ron Merseal and Chuck Bobbit, as well as the rest of our sponsors on the tour support this as well. I wouldn't necessarily say that makes us members of any so called "camp".

As for Chuck, I will do whatever i can to help him make this right and restore his reputation, he knows how to contact me.

Dennis
 
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"Estimated" figures

Ray,

Prior to the tournament, Jay had posted on here that there would be seating for 250+ spectators. There might have been, but I was there for 5-1/2 hours on Thur. and for 10-1/2 on Friday, and around "prime time" each day, when the bleachers would appear to be filling up, I would take a head count (as accurately as possible, that is). Thursday's head count came to around 65 people. Friday's head count came to around 110. And it appeared to me that there wasn't that much turnover during the times I was there. It looked to me like most of the people were like myself; they were coming in and staying for a long time, so could it be possible that there were never as many spectators as expected? Now again, I wasn't there for all 4 days, so I probably shouldn't be speculating here. And I sure don't want to be sounding like I'm calling anybody a liar. All I'm saying is that I'm not convinced that Chuck was intentionally trying to scam anyone. Instead, it appears to me that he just got in way over his head, and when things went south, his survival instincts kicked in, and he ended up making some very, very bad choices. And for that, he'll be paying for a long time to come.

Jay,
I truly am sorry that you and the players were not paid. It's one of the worst feelings in the world. I know, I've been there too many times myself. I hope we can make this up to you all, somehow.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
Jay,
I truly am sorry that you and the players were not paid. It's one of the worst feelings in the world. I know, I've been there too many times myself. I hope we can make this up to you all, somehow.

Roger

ok maybe i am not qualified to post in this thread as i have had no dealings with pool on the "professional" level, other that spectator of course, but:

1. mr long-you can make this up real quick by paying off the winnings. is that a difficult concept?

2. to jam and any other "supporters" out there, tell me how (except possibly for the amounts involved) this is any different than KT and the IPT?

thanks

brian
 
pocketspeed said:
ok maybe i am not qualified to post in this thread as i have had no dealings with pool on the "professional" level, other that spectator of course, but:

1. mr long-you can make this up real quick by paying off the winnings. is that a difficult concept?

2. to jam and any other "supporters" out there, tell me how (except possibly for the amounts involved) this is any different than KT and the IPT?

thanks

brian
The guy apparently cant get 30k together,people left him holding the empty bag it seems but Jay and others i have spoke to said the money was there so if the money was there,where is it now? :confused:
 
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