Once and for all!

While I appreciate that you all want to clear the air about issues that have negatively impacted reputations, I find it sad that people feel the need to air their dirty laundry on this forum. I'm mostly a lurker and enjoy reading posts that contribute to knowledge of the game we all love. Varying opinions are great - we get to see different sides to things that we may not have thought of, but when this kind of negativity creeps into a public forum, it hurts the whole community. Maybe there needs to be a new section called "I Need To ***** About..." and let those people that thrive on negativity spend their time there. This is just my opinion, but I think that personal attacks, confrontations and explanations should be kept private between the parties involved. It's none of our business.
 
Smorgass Bored said:
I'm going to give the AZB forums a little longer, in hopes that we might try to come together.

.

SB,
Don't hold your breath. I think that the forum has not really changed. Your view is common among poster's who have hung around for awhile.

There is always a level of unpleasantness (and I believe there has always been). The more we hang around, the more connections we develop, and the more personal this unpleasantness can seem. The vocal minority will always make things difficult for the professionals and celebrities. I hold no hope that this will change; even tough moderation would not accomplish that. I just enjoy the participation of those thick-skinned enough to continue to contribute; and I appreciate those who always stick to the high road with civil discourse (and of course funny asides as always occur in your posts).
 
Many years ago - like, twenty, pre-internet -I came up with a basic guideline for posting online.

It goes something like "Don't post anything online directed at someone that you wouldn't say to their face".

I think many folks on this forum would do well to keep that in mind in the future.
 
ScottW said:
Many years ago - like, twenty, pre-internet -I came up with a basic guideline for posting online.

It goes something like "Don't post anything online directed at someone that you wouldn't say to their face".

I think many folks on this forum would do well to keep that in mind in the future.

This is a good guideline for many. However, I think you will find that now, like twenty some odd years later, too many people are willing to make those disparaging (sp?) comments to others faces, behind their backs, written on walls, shot into their windows, cars, and so on. I guess what I'm saying is that it's kind of like locks on a car. They are just there to keep the honest folk honest. If someone really wants in your car, the lock isn't going to stop them.
 
corvette1340 said:
JAM,
This is your entire problem. Everytime someone expresses an opinion on something that differs from yours you discount it as "they are here for entertainment value, or they are clowns that don't know what they are talking about". You seem to think that since you are a "professional railbird" that your vast knowledge of pool is more valuable on here than anyone elses and that your opinions carry more weight than others.
There are people on here that only play in league and then there are former road players that have gambled on pool all their lives. There are some on here that simply love playing pool as recreation and then there are consumate professionals that play in a tournament every week. Then there are the gamblers and those that back players or interact with players or like the action that pool provides. So who is to say which of these forms of contributing AZB bio's carries more weight and is most relevant to each topic? Not me and certainly not you, Not anyone for that matter. I enjoy reading and contributing on each topic that interests me or that I feel I can add something to. If I disagree with someone then I post expressing my opinion on the subject, but certainly not with name calling or the disdain of fellow posters that you have displayed over the past few weeks. And yes, I know you will point to my cartoons and say those are disrespectful, but surely you know that they are light hearted in nature and mean no harm as everyone else does.
I hope that everyone that is considering leaving has a change of heart and continues to post. Besides, if it weren't for AZ I have no idea what the hell I would do at work all day. :D

Hey man, get a real job! Be a poker player! :)
 
Smorgass Bored said:
Well, I guess that i'll jump in here too. I used to look forward to reading and participating in AZB on a daily basis. I find the threads informative and fun and have grown quite fond of nearly all the posters here.

It breaks my heart to see so many of the posters that I like at each other's throats. Lines have been drawn in the sand and people are choosing sides. I like the people on BOTH sides of the fence and it's impossible to straddle this fence.

AZB is becoming less of a fun place to visit for me and if it continues to stress me out, I will have to visit here less frequently. I don't know the answer, but driving off valuable contributors and daily arguing is certainly not the answer. I wish that I had the answer.

Doug

Well said, old friend! You and Blackjack and others here who posted on and read rsb will surely see the similarities between what happened there and what's going on here, now. The same kind of spiteful bs that drove many pro players and cuemakers away on rsb is occurring here. I've tried hard not to take sides in any of this stuff and I've tried to respect most of the people here, even the ones I've disagreed with. Even some I disagreed with on rsb;) I, too, hate to see folks I've grown fond of, even though I've never met most of them, get harassed, blown off, and downright insulted.
I am not giving up just yet, but most days I just don't feel like posting any replies to posts, starting threads, or some days not even reading very much.
 
not that anyone cares but I will agree with SPIDER on this one. I am (was) a compulsive lurker. I did so because I enjoyed all the USEFUL information I could find here. I will continue to lurk but only when I am bored with life outside of here which hopefully don't happen often with me. Alot of this stuff we read now is pointless in my opinion. Hopefully when I do lurk again I will find that the membership is up and not down like it looks like could happen in big numbers.what kind of forum would this be if everyone decided to be a low poster like myself.

hoping for a change, Paul
 
It'd be kind of ironic if jam and david both really quit at the same time with the nuclear kamikaze LAST POST aimed at each other. Imagine two ICBMs peacefully passing each other in the atmosphere..

It'd almost be funny but if we lose an awesome poster like David over someone like JAM...
THAT F'ING SUCKS.

Jam, you need to move out of your high school mentality and maybe consider enrolling in finishing school. Last word syndrome describes it perfectly. You always have to be right and always have to win every fight. It never occurs to you to show a little class and take the olive branches people repeatedly offer you.

People try deference and politeness and writing PMs and acknowledging the few useful contributions you DO make... and it all has the same effect as out-and-out name calling and swearing, your reaction is consistently nasty and reeks of high school.

It's so tiring reading your posts where you struggle to defend your general b!tchiness with inane, irrelevant, or out-of-context quotes from dead threads. It's so tiring seeing you make a crusade about the poor american pool player and how it's everyone else's fault that he can't make a living. It's especially tiring how... ever since you got called out for posting bigoted-sounding remarks... you now visibly go out of your way to tack "american" on to every single reference to pool players. It's like it never occurred to you to see a great pool player as just a great pool player, it's always a 'great american pool player' (most recent example being your response to JS in the 2007 wpc thread, and there are always a dozen more like that).

Keep playing the childish "THEY STARTED IT! I'M THE VICTIM!" trump card if you want, but I can't stand sitting by and seeing a great poster like blackjack get run out by your shrill BS.

Feel free to quote every second line, write a little sniping comeback to each sentence, call me a backbiting monkey, and throw an hour of 5000 WPM verbiage at me. You seem to love the idea of someone who will stick by their opinion no matter how unpopular it is, and refusing to back down... well, my opinion is that you need a little break from the board until you learn some basic internet social skills and I'll call you out on it every time I see it, after patiently trying to ignore it for a while.

It sounds like your new job is going to put you on hiatus anyway. I'll chalk that one up to mysterious ways.
 
CreeDo said:
It'd be kind of ironic if jam and david both really quit at the same time with the nuclear kamikaze LAST POST aimed at each other. Imagine two ICBMs peacefully passing each other in the atmosphere..

It'd almost be funny but if we lose an awesome poster like David over someone like JAM...
THAT F'ING SUCKS.

Jam, you need to move out of your high school mentality and maybe consider enrolling in finishing school. Last word syndrome describes it perfectly. You always have to be right and always have to win every fight. It never occurs to you to show a little class and take the olive branches people repeatedly offer you.

People try deference and politeness and writing PMs and acknowledging the few useful contributions you DO make... and it all has the same effect as out-and-out name calling and swearing, your reaction is consistently nasty and reeks of high school.

It's so tiring reading your posts where you struggle to defend your general b!tchiness with inane, irrelevant, or out-of-context quotes from dead threads. It's so tiring seeing you make a crusade about the poor american pool player and how it's everyone else's fault that he can't make a living. It's especially tiring how... ever since you got called out for posting bigoted-sounding remarks... you now visibly go out of your way to tack "american" on to every single reference to pool players. It's like it never occurred to you to see a great pool player as just a great pool player, it's always a 'great american pool player' (most recent example being your response to JS in the 2007 wpc thread, and there are always a dozen more like that).

Keep playing the childish "THEY STARTED IT! I'M THE VICTIM!" trump card if you want, but I can't stand sitting by and seeing a great poster like blackjack get run out by your shrill BS.

Feel free to quote every second line, write a little sniping comeback to each sentence, call me a backbiting monkey, and throw an hour of 5000 WPM verbiage at me. You seem to love the idea of someone who will stick by their opinion no matter how unpopular it is, and refusing to back down... well, my opinion is that you need a little break from the board until you learn some basic internet social skills and I'll call you out on it every time I see it, after patiently trying to ignore it for a while.

It sounds like your new job is going to put you on hiatus anyway. I'll chalk that one up to mysterious ways.

Mysterious ways? LOL!

I have attempted numerous times to politely request Craig Riley a/k/a "TheOne" to refrain from any further negativity on this forum as it pertains to me. He replies by labeling me a bigot as well as stating I bash pool players and promoters. I then tried to post to other threads of another subject matter, but for whatever reason, the negativity on this one would not die out, to include some further name-calling of me. If my responding to those is LWS, then you are right. I did not ignore them.

I can't blame some people for not wanting to "hang out" on AzBilliards and post anymore. There has been an undercurrent of negative themes in recent times which has been brought forth by very strong opinions, and my opinion is one of them. Because I am pro-American pool player does not mean that I am anti all other pool players. I do desire to see pool elevated in America, more so than other countries, but that is because I live here as an American. Now if I compliment John Schmidt as an "American champion," you believe I should be lambasted for mentioning the word "American."

It's okay for me to be called "lapdog" and "mascot" and have acronyms like "STFU" directed at me, but when I respond to these name-callings and ugly manifestations, then you state I have LWS. When a person is on the ground being kicked about, it is a natural instinct to defend themselves. That is human nature. I tried to move past this ugliness on this and other threads with the same topic. I did participate in other threads, but this thread, much like you posting your piece, draws me back. I won't ignore your comments without my stating my piece. So the negativity continues, once again.

You are disappointed that the "awesome poster like Blackjack" made the announcement that he will quit posting or maybe take a hiatus from AzBilliards. I have seen Blackjack come and go on this and other forums/NGs in the past, just as I have done as well. There does come a time when the forums/NGs are not enjoyable. I totally identify with that.

I have tried to be a good contributing poster since I have been an AzBilliards member on a variety of topics. I am saddened and a little bit upset to read your label of my contributions as "inane, irrelevant, or out-of-context quotes from dead threads." I'm not sure what dead threads you mean, other than I post snippets from pool happenings from days gone by. I have always been a history buff, but I had not known that this type of information would be irrelevant to this forum.

My world doesn't evolve around pool. However, I used to enjoy hanging out on AzBilliards. I have some friends who post on here. I read it every single morning with my coffee. It was fun to read about events around the world and its sundry players. Today, I wake up to your post, and it is upsetting and hurtful to me. Of course, that was your intent.

You can call me out on every post of mine, as you have threatened, but I won't lay down and get kicked without responding. If that is LWS, then you are right.

JAM
 
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DeadPoked said:

This may seem like a dead horse to you, Deadpoked, but to me, it is EXTREMELY hurtful, and it ain't funny one bit. I cannot put into words how upsetting this recent negativity has been for me.

Have fun, Deadpoked. I'm not a dead horse, but I am a wounded person today. If that is the point of your cartoon, then you have succeeded. I gave you green rep as such.

JAM
 
JAM said:
This may seem like a dead horse to you, Deadpoked, but to me, it is EXTREMELY hurtful, and it ain't funny one bit. I cannot put into words how upsetting this recent negativity has been for me.

Have fun, Deadpoked. I'm not a dead horse, but I am a wounded person today. If that is the point of your cartoon, then you have succeeded. I gave you green rep as such.

JAM


JAM I sincerely apologize if my attempt to make light of an all around bad situation has upset you. I just wish everyone involved could move past this and put all of our differences aside. I hope your day improves from this point on. :)
 
And BEER

DeadPoked said:


Well, if the horse is truly dead, stop beating it and lets EAT the sucker....
Doug
( I want fries with that ) :)


Smile JAM, things will surely get worse before they get better... imo
 
Small suggestion that I try but don't always live up to. Some of the other posters here are very good at it.

Begin a post with where you can find agreement, then gently make your point. People continue to amaze me with how well they understand subtle points of view. :D
 
JoeW said:
Small suggestion that I try but don't always live up to. Some of the other posters here are very good at it.

Begin a post with where you can find agreement, then gently make your point. People continue to amaze me with how well they understand subtle points of view. :D

Thanks Phil. You always give such great advice. :)
JoeyA
 
Jam, the dead posts reference wasn't about the road stories or whatever. We all enjoy those. I wish your posts could be all those.

I was referring to the way you argue with people, finding old isolated quotes they made to use as ammo against them. The equivalent would me coming back to your famous "robot aliens" or whatever every time we argue, even if a different topic. I'm not saying you're the only person one earth to debate like that, maybe TheOne does it too. I probably have too.


You're taking the victim stance pretty well, but I think Blackjack's the victim here, he's just one of several perfectly nice guys you've lit into. I know you're going to defend yourself when attacked, the problem is you take it as an attack when people disagree (even respectfully) or offer constructive criticism. And when you defend yourself you're usually hell on wheels. Just because you don't break out swear words doesn't mean you're keeping it civil and polite.

One last point -
It's a bit disingenuous to hint that blackjack's leaving over some kind of general distaste for the forums, and then say you can identify with that problem. I don't think you can really identify with David's problem because he made it clear you ARE the problem.

If you can truly empathize, I wish you'd put it into practice and talk to people (especially blackjack) with the same polite tone you expect others to use.
 
CreeDo said:
Jam, the dead posts reference wasn't about the road stories or whatever. We all enjoy those. I wish your posts could be all those.

I was referring to the way you argue with people, finding old isolated quotes they made to use as ammo against them. The equivalent would me coming back to your famous "robot aliens" or whatever every time we argue, even if a different topic. I'm not saying you're the only person one earth to debate like that, maybe TheOne does it too. I probably have too.


You're taking the victim stance pretty well, but I think Blackjack's the victim here, he's just one of several perfectly nice guys you've lit into. I know you're going to defend yourself when attacked, the problem is you take it as an attack when people disagree (even respectfully) or offer constructive criticism. And when you defend yourself you're usually hell on wheels. Just because you don't break out swear words doesn't mean you're keeping it civil and polite.

One last point -
It's a bit disingenuous to hint that blackjack's leaving over some kind of general distaste for the forums, and then say you can identify with that problem. I don't think you can really identify with David's problem because he made it clear you ARE the problem.

If you can truly empathize, I wish you'd put it into practice and talk to people (especially blackjack) with the same polite tone you expect others to use.

On your last point, the door swings both ways. I cannot, as I have stated before -- very politely I might add -- comment in reference to what I have experienced pertaining to Blackjack.

Taking JoeW's suggestion a few posts ago, I will agree that Blackjack is a good contributing member to the forum about a wide range of topics which are of interest to many.

I have experienced an "unpleasantness" -- the only word I can think of that is polite -- emanating from Blackjack himself which I refuse to go into on this public forum. Those who have contacted me in reference to this are aware of this "unpleasantness," and I will just leave it at that. This comment may be interpreted as a cop-out or an insult, but in an effort to maintain the integrity of this forum, I choose to not elaborate.

This is not the first time that Blackjack has decided to take a hiatus from a discussion forum/NG, and the reasons he has chosen to do so in the past had nothing at all to do with me. In fact, I had never had any encounter with him at those times when he did decide to take a retreat. Unfortunately for Blackjack, an "unpleasantness" existed for him, resulting in his decision to quit posting on those occasions.

I have noticed a climate change on AzBilliards in recent times. It seems to this reader that there are some members who pop in and out of threads with blatant name-calling that are distasteful. It appears as if they enjoy kicking a dog when they are down. The recent thread about Grady's departure is a good example of this, IMHO. I see these same posters do it over and over again on any thread that is taking a turn for the worse. They, in fact, gravitate to these types of threads as opposed to other subject matters.

I am not a mean-spirited person, but when I am attacked, I do respond. I hope this clarifies my opinion. I have tried to write it as politely as I can, adhering to the forum rules.

JAM
 
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