One piece slates
What tables exist and are offered today where a one-piece slate is available in a 9-foot table?
What tables exist and are offered today where a one-piece slate is available in a 9-foot table?
One Piece Slate Diamonds
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
robertno1pool said:
Well, let me get this one out of the way first...LOL, I'll give you three companies in order.
1. Diamond
2. Diamond Billiards
3. Diamond Billiards Products.
There, that should answer your question for you. There are other 9ft 1 piece slates on the market, but all them slates were undersized 9fts, meaning Valley, Dynamo type of bar tables. The rails never bolted to the slate at all. As far as a 1"x57"x107" one piece slate, only Diamond to date has ever had them made.
nyjoe14.1 said:
Well now, here we go with you.
You: "third one piece slat is just not practical for in home use, and furthermore to the overwhelming majority of people who play pool in the world today wouldn’t want a diamond because the pockets play to tight for the recreational player"
Comment: Let me ask you something. Can you name me one billiards manufacturing company that offers a choice of pocket openings when selling someone a pool table? See, you just did it again, stuck your foot in your mouth. Are you even aware that Diamond offers pocket openings for the "recreational players" of the world, as well as pro pocket openings for those who want and like the tight pro pockets? And you know what, they don't have to shim up their pockets to make them tighter, they're MADE that way from the get go when the rails are being built. Hmmmm, I wonder, does the company that makes your pool tables that you sell offer the choice of pocket openings to the buying customer, or is that something you have to fabricate a change to in order to fulfill the customers request? Personally I don't like shimming up pockets to make them play tighter, I do it at the customers request because they're paying for it...but I still don't like doing it because in my opinion the pockets start playing dead.
You: "well first off I can make a statement like that because I have played on both types of tables and it is true"
Comment: I believe my comment was about setting up the one piece slates and your not having done both to compare the two, not about playing on the two types of tables...wasn't it?
You: "second one piece slate was used around the turn of the century"
Comment: Name the manufacture and the model of the table that used a 57" x 107" full size 9ft slate?
You: "and yes I have my sh*it together pal, I’ll sell around 100-150 pool tables this year, and I am one of about 30 salesman. I really don’t think that many other retailers can make a legitimate claim like that"
Comment: Sorry pal, my brothers got you beat by more than 200 tables! And besides that, the number of tables sold does not speak about the quality of the tables being sold...now does it?
"There's a lot more Volkswagens sold in the world than Rolls Royce's, but no matter what you do, you just can't turn that Volkswagen you have into a Rolls Royce just by putting Rolls Royce tires on it!"
And you know what's funny...I don't even work for Diamond...LOL I'm just a humble master billiards technician, that's all...who just happens to have the highest regards for the Diamond built pool tables. My hats off to Diamond for doing what no other billiards manufacturing company today is trying to do..."improve the industry standards, not just selling pool tables"
Glen
Russ Chewning said:
Okay, well, this may take some time, but here we go.
First of all, don't blame Diamond for coming out with a one piece 9ft 1" slate entirely, it was my idea. I had the up hill battle of selling the idea to Greg Sullivan at Diamond first in order to make it happen. Not wanting to bore you with all the details, I finally won out with Greg, and he agreed to try it, at a great expense I might add. First of all, the company he was buying slate from direct in Italy wouldn't make the slates, so he had to find another manufacture to make them...not an easy task I might add, because even the manufactures of slate don't like making them, but he got it done.
One of the biggest problems Greg and I had about the one piece slates was the fact that you can't staple the cloth down on it in order to install the cloth. This was a big hurdle between us because he was a die hard staple fan and just refused to believe that cloth could be installed tighter with glue than with staples, especially when just applying the glue to only the thickness of the side of the slate. Well, I'm not going to tell you how I did it, but Greg gave in and conceded to the fact that I was right. In fact if you call up Diamond, I believe they still have the tape that Pat, with Accustat made of me changing the cloth on the one piece 9ft slate used for the finals at the DCC in Jan 2001. From the time I layed the cloth out and was ready to install it, which would have been the starting point of picking up a staple gun to install the cloth...I was finished in 8min 15sec, then put the table back together for the next match.
I guess what I'm trying to tell you is that there was a lot of pain staking problems that had to be worked out in order to introduce this slate to the pool world today so to speak, but that's history.
Part 2 coming up.
Part 2:
Sometimes creating change in an industry is not easy. Knowing Greg as long as I have, and as well as I do, I know that what Greg would love to see, is some sort of standards put in place for billiards manufactures for the purpose of giving the people that want better tables, a choice. He'd have no problem with Brunswick, Olhausen, or any other manufacture if they'd step up to the plate and manufacture tables that gave the buyers a choice of the types of pocket openings, or slate for that matter...if they just would. But so far, no one seems to be willing to do that, so taking the lead, Greg has.
Now to answer the question of what's the difference between 3 piece slates vs one piece slates.
First of all, lets start with the pro's and con's of the 3 piece slate.
3 piece slate pro's.
1: They are easier to transport.
2: They are easier to install in upper/lower level locations.
3: They are easier to install in locations that have tight turns to get into.
4: They come in all sizes and thicknesses.
5: Most all billiards technicians know how to at least work on them to install the tables to some degree.
3 piece slate con's.
1: They can take a long time to set up.
2: If super glue is not used to secure the slates together, there's a risk that the slates can come apart after the install.
3: The slate is only as good as the frame it's mounted on.
4: Even when seamed properly, sometimes the seams still are not level to each other depending on who set it up.
5: Some billiards manufactures think that thicker is better and therefore offer thicker slates up in the ranges of 1 1/2" to 2" thicknesses. I don't care who you are, packing these slates up 2 flights of stairs is enough to make anybody hate the job.
6: If you ever want to adjust and fine tune the level of the slate at a later date, you have to take the cloth off and break apart the seams in order to do this.
So now, everything I've just mentioned is pretty much common knowledge in this industry, so what I'm trying to say is that there's no surprises to the 3 piece slates, they've been around for well over several hundred years.
On to page 3:
Sometimes creating change in an industry is not easy. Knowing Greg as long as I have, and as well as I do, I know that what Greg would love to see, is some sort of standards put in place for billiards manufactures for the purpose of giving the people that want better tables, a choice. He'd have no problem with Brunswick, Olhausen, or any other manufacture if they'd step up to the plate and manufacture tables that gave the buyers a choice of the types of pocket openings, or slate for that matter...if they just would. But so far, no one seems to be willing to do that, so taking the lead, Greg has.
Now to answer the question of what's the difference between 3 piece slates vs one piece slates.
First of all, lets start with the pro's and con's of the 3 piece slate.
3 piece slate pro's.
1: They are easier to transport.
2: They are easier to install in upper/lower level locations.
3: They are easier to install in locations that have tight turns to get into.
4: They come in all sizes and thicknesses.
5: Most all billiards technicians know how to at least work on them to install the tables to some degree.
3 piece slate con's.
1: They can take a long time to set up.
2: If super glue is not used to secure the slates together, there's a risk that the slates can come apart after the install.
3: The slate is only as good as the frame it's mounted on.
4: Even when seamed properly, sometimes the seams still are not level to each other depending on who set it up.
5: Some billiards manufactures think that thicker is better and therefore offer thicker slates up in the ranges of 1 1/2" to 2" thicknesses. I don't care who you are, packing these slates up 2 flights of stairs is enough to make anybody hate the job.
6: If you ever want to adjust and fine tune the level of the slate at a later date, you have to take the cloth off and break apart the seams in order to do this.
So now, everything I've just mentioned is pretty much common knowledge in this industry, so what I'm trying to say is that there's no surprises to the 3 piece slates, they've been around for well over several hundred years.
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One piece slates. On this subject, I can only refer to the Diamond pool tables, because they're the only ones that manufacture a true full size one piece slate today.
So, first of all, the disadvantages.
1: No matter which one piece slate you're talking about, the 7,8, or 9ft, they're heavy, I can't deny that.
2: They're even heavier when they're installed inside of the table, making it an entire unit to deliver and install.
3: Trucking companies won't take delivery of one for shipping if it's on a dolly, so that leaves crating the table for shipping.
4: Unless you rent a forklift you have no chance of unloading the table off a truck when it arrives at your house or bar/pool room.
5: Even if you HAVE a forklift to get the table off the truck, you're still faced with trying to get it into your house or bar/pool room and setting it up.
6: There are other manufactures that have offered one piece slates that I'm aware of, but the one piece slates were not real one piece slates, let me explain. The difference between a full size one piece slate and an under sized is the rails. On a true one piece slate, the rails bolt through the slate because it's the same size as it's counter part in a 3 piece slate, just not cut into thirds. An undersized one piece slate sets inside the frame of the tables and the rails bolt down to a wood sub-frame in order to attach the rails. Sometimes these undersized one piece slates are even cut into 2 pieces, down the middle between the side pockets, or even into 3 pieces. The dead give away as to whether or not you have one, or are looking at buying a table with one of these slates in it, is that that the rail bolts do NOT go through the slate when mounting the rails.
7: Stairs, tight turns, elevators...LOL and anything else that can be a major obstacle can be a disqualification to getting one of these tables.
8: Lack of experience billiards technicians, lack of the right equipment, lack of willing companies to manufacture them, lack of companies to offer them for sale, is in my opinion harder to deal with at times than stairs.
Now, on to page 4:
One piece slates. On this subject, I can only refer to the Diamond pool tables, because they're the only ones that manufacture a true full size one piece slate today.
So, first of all, the disadvantages.
1: No matter which one piece slate you're talking about, the 7,8, or 9ft, they're heavy, I can't deny that.
2: They're even heavier when they're installed inside of the table, making it an entire unit to deliver and install.
3: Trucking companies won't take delivery of one for shipping if it's on a dolly, so that leaves crating the table for shipping.
4: Unless you rent a forklift you have no chance of unloading the table off a truck when it arrives at your house or bar/pool room.
5: Even if you HAVE a forklift to get the table off the truck, you're still faced with trying to get it into your house or bar/pool room and setting it up.
6: There are other manufactures that have offered one piece slates that I'm aware of, but the one piece slates were not real one piece slates, let me explain. The difference between a full size one piece slate and an under sized is the rails. On a true one piece slate, the rails bolt through the slate because it's the same size as it's counter part in a 3 piece slate, just not cut into thirds. An undersized one piece slate sets inside the frame of the tables and the rails bolt down to a wood sub-frame in order to attach the rails. Sometimes these undersized one piece slates are even cut into 2 pieces, down the middle between the side pockets, or even into 3 pieces. The dead give away as to whether or not you have one, or are looking at buying a table with one of these slates in it, is that that the rail bolts do NOT go through the slate when mounting the rails.
7: Stairs, tight turns, elevators...LOL and anything else that can be a major obstacle can be a disqualification to getting one of these tables.
8: Lack of experience billiards technicians, lack of the right equipment, lack of willing companies to manufacture them, lack of companies to offer them for sale, is in my opinion harder to deal with at times than stairs.
Now, on to page 4:
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realkingcobra said:
Do they have any relation to Diamond Billiard Products out of IN?
magnetardo said:Do they have any relation to Diamond Billiard Products out of IN?
LMAO, I don't know, what do you think?
In order to talk about the advantages of a one piece slate, I have to refer to the Diamond table. I'm not trying to make a sale here, I'm trying to explain that you can't talk about the advantages of a one piece slate unless you talk about what it's in, and how it's applied.
First of all,
1: When you put a 3 piece slate back together again during an install, aren't you in fact putting it back together just like it's a one piece slate? Perfectly flat, no visible seams, no difference to the feel of the seams to the touch! Think about it, it's a one piece slate...it's already put together!
2: I would say that about half of the tables I've delivered for Diamond have been the Diamond pro am's. In fact, on some of the deliveries I've called ahead on to see how many stairs I have to deal with...I've found out they didn't have any stairs...the table was going into the garage! Every time this happened, I had the order changed to a pro am.
Look, let me try and explain something here. The one piece slate by it's self is NOT the whole table. Lets talk a little bit about the Pro Am 9ft here for a minute.
First of all, there is an unchallenged leveling system under that one piece slate that has changed the way Diamond builds its tables today, and forever!
Underneath that huge 618lb one piece of slate is 22 leveling points. 18 of which is located around the outside edges of the slate, and 4 located under the center of the slate. AFTER the rails are installed, I can still level the entire slate underneath the rails, and I mean everywhere! You can't do that with a 3 piece slate! A 3 piece slate for the most part is mounted to the frame with 12 wood screws securing the slate to the frame of the table. The Diamond 9ft pro am uses the rail bolts to secure the rails, slate, and frame all together. That's a total of 24 3/8" bolts to secure the slate!
Then, on a three piece slate, if the slate is mounted like it is on a Gabriel 9ft professional table, the slate is leveled by leveling screws located under the slate coming up from the frame of the table, but the rails are bolted through the frame of the table, then when you tighten down the rails...you're actually applying all that downward rail pressure right against the leveling screws, what good is that?
Lets say you start to notice your 3 piece slate table starting to develop some weird rolls, you call a technician to come take a look at it, he says it needs to be slate leveled again, so...now the table has to come apart, cloth off, seams taken apart again...leveled again, then you might as well recover the table again...and on, and on...etc.
With a one piece slate, you don't have to go through all that, you can level the slate without having to take it apart, no problem.
No, the Diamond 1 piece slate is not going to fit in every application, and I'm not trying to say that it would. In fact, contrary to most peoples understanding, it's not the slate that can't be installed...it's the whole table. If you can get a sheet of plywood into the room you want to get the table into, for the most part, I can get the slate into the room as well, but what I can't get into the room...is the body of the pro am, so therefore, no body...no table.
As far as setting up a table with a one piece slate vs a 3 piece slate...LOL...I'll be long gone while someone else is still packing in the 3 piece slate table...without even starting to assemble it yet.
Here's another thing to consider. I'm 5ft 11" 260lbs. I deliver and install the Diamond pro ams by myself almost all the time...they're on either Diamonds carts, or my dollys...I'm rolling the table in to install it, while everyone else is packing in. With the right equipment almost any billiards technician can install these one piece slate tables...even if you have to double up the help...it's worth it in the short run.
And guess what? Greg is now changing the 9ft Diamond Professional design to give the buyer a choice...just like the choice of what pocket openings you want, shortly you're now going to be able to get that table with the same one piece slate...or 3 piece slate...with the same leveling system under it. What manufacture today, offers so much to those that insist on having the best?
As far as the Diamond professional table goes, it's no secret to Diamond, being Greg and Chad...I don't like setting them up...period, but I will. My alliance with Diamond is, and always has been...to deliver the tables no one else wants to deliver.
They make the changes to the Diamond professional to take the one piece slates like I know Greg's going to do...then they can sign me up to deliver all of them as well...with pleasure!
Glen
First of all,
1: When you put a 3 piece slate back together again during an install, aren't you in fact putting it back together just like it's a one piece slate? Perfectly flat, no visible seams, no difference to the feel of the seams to the touch! Think about it, it's a one piece slate...it's already put together!
2: I would say that about half of the tables I've delivered for Diamond have been the Diamond pro am's. In fact, on some of the deliveries I've called ahead on to see how many stairs I have to deal with...I've found out they didn't have any stairs...the table was going into the garage! Every time this happened, I had the order changed to a pro am.
Look, let me try and explain something here. The one piece slate by it's self is NOT the whole table. Lets talk a little bit about the Pro Am 9ft here for a minute.
First of all, there is an unchallenged leveling system under that one piece slate that has changed the way Diamond builds its tables today, and forever!
Underneath that huge 618lb one piece of slate is 22 leveling points. 18 of which is located around the outside edges of the slate, and 4 located under the center of the slate. AFTER the rails are installed, I can still level the entire slate underneath the rails, and I mean everywhere! You can't do that with a 3 piece slate! A 3 piece slate for the most part is mounted to the frame with 12 wood screws securing the slate to the frame of the table. The Diamond 9ft pro am uses the rail bolts to secure the rails, slate, and frame all together. That's a total of 24 3/8" bolts to secure the slate!
Then, on a three piece slate, if the slate is mounted like it is on a Gabriel 9ft professional table, the slate is leveled by leveling screws located under the slate coming up from the frame of the table, but the rails are bolted through the frame of the table, then when you tighten down the rails...you're actually applying all that downward rail pressure right against the leveling screws, what good is that?
Lets say you start to notice your 3 piece slate table starting to develop some weird rolls, you call a technician to come take a look at it, he says it needs to be slate leveled again, so...now the table has to come apart, cloth off, seams taken apart again...leveled again, then you might as well recover the table again...and on, and on...etc.
With a one piece slate, you don't have to go through all that, you can level the slate without having to take it apart, no problem.
No, the Diamond 1 piece slate is not going to fit in every application, and I'm not trying to say that it would. In fact, contrary to most peoples understanding, it's not the slate that can't be installed...it's the whole table. If you can get a sheet of plywood into the room you want to get the table into, for the most part, I can get the slate into the room as well, but what I can't get into the room...is the body of the pro am, so therefore, no body...no table.
As far as setting up a table with a one piece slate vs a 3 piece slate...LOL...I'll be long gone while someone else is still packing in the 3 piece slate table...without even starting to assemble it yet.
Here's another thing to consider. I'm 5ft 11" 260lbs. I deliver and install the Diamond pro ams by myself almost all the time...they're on either Diamonds carts, or my dollys...I'm rolling the table in to install it, while everyone else is packing in. With the right equipment almost any billiards technician can install these one piece slate tables...even if you have to double up the help...it's worth it in the short run.
And guess what? Greg is now changing the 9ft Diamond Professional design to give the buyer a choice...just like the choice of what pocket openings you want, shortly you're now going to be able to get that table with the same one piece slate...or 3 piece slate...with the same leveling system under it. What manufacture today, offers so much to those that insist on having the best?
As far as the Diamond professional table goes, it's no secret to Diamond, being Greg and Chad...I don't like setting them up...period, but I will. My alliance with Diamond is, and always has been...to deliver the tables no one else wants to deliver.
They make the changes to the Diamond professional to take the one piece slates like I know Greg's going to do...then they can sign me up to deliver all of them as well...with pleasure!
Glen
realkingcobra said:
Which tables "models" does Diamond offer in a one-piece slate?
(Is it only the pro-am?)
Which tables do they plan to offer an option for a one-piece slate?
Brunswick offers two pocket cuts on the Metro and Gold Crown.They don't offer it on any other tables in there line.I think Diamond makes a great players table and its hard to compare Diamond with company's like Olhausen and Brunswick when there main customers are in the mid to high end furniture style tables.And to compare I would'nt think that Diamond produces or even come close to the numbers of tables sold both by Brunswick or Olhausen.
nyjoe14.1,
a few questions,
Where in NYC do you sell your tables?
What brand of tables do you sell?
a few questions,
Where in NYC do you sell your tables?
What brand of tables do you sell?
robertno1pool said:
The one piece slate is the only slate used in all three sizes of the pro am's, 7,8, and 9fts, as well as the Diamond Professional 8 and 9ft's, and all three sizes of their smart tables.
Glen
elvicash said:
Can't answer that question, that depends on which table you're talking about. Call Brian at Diamond, he can better answer that question than I can.
Diamond Billiards 812-288-7665
Glen
NoBull9 said:
"Brunswick offers two pocket cuts on the Metro and Gold Crown."
Since when, and what pocket openings do they offer? Is it a true pocket cut, or is the pocket facings double or tripple shimmed? Further more, are you aware that the corner pocket openings on both of these tables vary in size based on how the rails are bolted to the corner castings?
"I think Diamond makes a great players table and its hard to compare Diamond with company's like Olhausen and Brunswick when there main customers are in the mid to high end furniture style tables"
Who are you talking about here...Diamond? I hope you're not talking about Diamond here, because that would be a very miss informed statement! Diamond builds a very good line of tables for the everyday players, as well as for those who expect more from a table player wise.
"And to compare I would'nt think that Diamond produces or even come close to the numbers of tables sold both by Brunswick or Olhausen"
What does the number of tables built and sold have to do with the price of eggs in China? Are you trying to imply that who ever builds and sells the most tables, builds the best tables on the market?
Glen
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cuejoey said:
Hmmm....let me think about that one for a second.."it eliminates all the old problems associated with bees wax"....my guess is that it also eliminates bondo, super glue, raised seams as well....hmmmm...are you talking about Diamonds new one piece slates?.....ROTFLMAO
Glen
Brunswick extended the rails and cushions on the Metro and the Gold Crown the Metro is available and used at the Mosconi Cup 2006.The Gold Crown should be available after the first of the year.They did not offer this on any other table models.I havent looked at Diamond product line in a while they are not spoken of much here in Atlanta.I'm not sure if it has todo with there dealer here if they have one I don't know whom it is.And asfar as rail adjustments for the Metro and Gold crowns I'm going to assume you know what your doing based on your post so you should know how to get the rails straight.
NoBull9 said:
As of today, I haven't seen the change in the Brunswick pocket openings, and seeing is believing if you know what I mean. As far as bolting the rails correctly to the Brunswick corner castings, yes, I know how to do that correctly. I also use a miter gage to make sure the pockets are consistent with each other....BUT, I can not speak for anyone else. With the Diamond rails, you CAN'T not bolt them together improperly.
If Brunswick has made the changes in order to offer different pocket openings, I'm glad to see it. I'm sure Greg at Diamond welcomes the change as well, provided it's done right.
Glen
PS. Diamond is relatively a small company compared to a lot of other top manufactures, so Diamonds relies heavily on word of mouth sales, and not so much on distributors. If Diamond relied solely on distributors to sell their pool tables, the prices of the their pool tables would be considerably higher.
Glen
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