One Pocket Break

[jay helfert]

25? In five racks?

He'd get heisted with that total by today's pros.

I believe a similar challenge happened at dcc and the winner went 60 balls in 5 racks.

Correct. The record high run was 60 in five racks by Gabe Owen. I watched the whole thing from start to finish. Gabe got it wired and ran balls every rack. I know he had a 15 and a 14 and a couple others over 10. Maybe his worst rack was an 8 or a 9. You are correct though. The best players were occasionally running in the 40's for five racks and I have a few 50's on DVD. Of course they may have taken several turns at it to get that one good score. The average score overall during the course of three days may have been something like 15 or so. Even the top pros would bomb out with zeros and low scores and just quit after three racks and start again. I bet Alex that he couldn't run a 45 (we bet 500) and he had 30 after four racks. Lo and behold Alex broke and ran 15 for the cash! He made all kinds of crazy shots in that last rack, like only Alex can.

 

[Black-Balled]

Correct. The record high run was 60 in five racks by Gabe Owen. I watched the whole thing from start to finish. Gabe got it wired and ran balls every rack. I know he had a 15 and a 14 and a couple others over 10. Maybe his worst rack was an 8 or a 9. You are correct though. The best players were occasionally running in the 40's for five racks and I have a few 50's on DVD. Of course they may have taken several turns at it to get that one good score. The average score overall during the course of three days may have been something like 15 or so. Even the top pros would bomb out with zeros and low scores and just quit after three racks and start again. I bet Alex that he couldn't run a 45 (we bet 500) and he had 30 after four racks. Lo and behold Alex broke and ran 15 for the cash!

a man needs an occasional reminder to not to bet against the Pinoy.

 

[jay helfert]

Gabe Owen did the 60. 2008, it appears.

2009 winner was Mika...53 total with back to back 15s

As per jelfert, 13 perfect racks in toall were run by all entrants in 2009.

We're talking about literally hundreds of racks being played. Maybe one rack out of fifty was a perfect rack. You would be amazed what a top pro can do when he gets the balls opened up. Allen Hopkins taught a bunch of these guys how to shoot the opening break shot and that helped them get started. Still a 15 was very rare and when a player got close everyone was watching to see if they could make it.

 

[Bob Callahan]

If I remember right he had a suggestion in the book to break with a very light cue, not your playing cue. Anybody ever hear that?

You might find this section of one of Bob Byrne's books interesting:

Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards

Here is the companion book to the landmark Byren's Standard Book of Pool and Billiads--what every pool player needs to perfect his or her game. Byrne treats the finer points of the game with the comprehensiveness and clarity that have won him a loyal readership among the many thousands of...

books.google.com

 

[straightline]

Trick I was taught is to place the cue ball on the head string an inch off the cushion give or take. Then you aim directly at the middle ball in the back, apply inside english, and shoot. You gotta experiment with the corner ball leaking back but often the cue ball will graze it before it becomes trouble or it behaves in the first place.

There's also a suicidal break where you cut the middle ball on the side as if you're shooting it to your pocket. The apex ball on the other side goes right into the hole. Supposedly...

 

[Black-Balled]

And here is the best of our time (!!) With a 44:

 

[middleofnowhere]

?
Of course it is possible.
It has also been done.

While it is posable to do a big number given enough tries, I have done over 40 myself, you can't beat the proposition. You very well may have to handicap some of these players to higher numbers, it is very very hard to keep up any kind of good average. It is amazing how many racks you may score a zero due to a ball rolling up on the cueball or have to shoot a three ball combo to make your first ball.

That is the beauty of the proposition. A player has no concept how hard it is to even average 5. There is a big different having players just trying to set a high number with multiple attempts and betting on every attempt. The proposition will break most any player even just changing the fixed number by a ball or two.

The best example I can think of would be John Schmidt. He has run over 100 balls probably a 1000 times. Do you think it would be an even money bet for him to run 100 on demand for an even money bet? Im am not talking about one bet, it's a proposition. On an even money bet, the player has to do the proposition around 66% of the time to make any kind of dent in my pocket and even then he is just grinding out the money and can lose it all back plus his bankroll pretty fast. Every time he fails he has to do it twice to get back to where would have had he not failed. Even a great player can't keep that up. Quiting ahead, if you are lucky enough to get ahead, is usually the only way to beat most propositions.

 

[Black-Balled]

While it is posable to do a big number given enough tries, I have done over 40 myself, you can't beat the proposition. You very well may have to handicap some of these players to higher numbers, it is very very hard to keep up any kind of good average. It is amazing how many racks you may score a zero due to a ball rolling up on the cueball or have to shoot a three ball combo to make your first ball.

That is the beauty of the proposition. A player has no concept how hard it is to even average 5. There is a big different having players just trying to set a high number with multiple attempts and betting on every attempt. The proposition will break most any player even just changing the fixed number by a ball or two.

The best example I can think of would be John Schmidt. He has run over 100 balls probably a 1000 times. Do you think it would be an even money bet for him to run 100 on demand for an even money bet? Im am not talking about one bet, it's a proposition. On an even money bet, the player has to do the proposition around 66% of the time to make any kind of dent in my pocket and even then he is just grinding out the money and can lose it all back plus his bankroll pretty fast. Every time he fails he has to do it twice to get back to where would have had he not failed. Even a great player can't keep that up. Quiting ahead, if you are lucky enough to get ahead, is usually the only way to beat most propositions.

That's a lot of words. You said it wasn't possible, I provided evidence to the contrary and now you've got all these twists.

I bet I can do 80 in 5 racks. Post up and then I'll tell you the conditions.

 

[Tooler]

And here is the best of our time (!!) With a 44:

I remember this video....

I remember laughing my ass off at Roberto warming up with Aranas' cue..... what a nut!

 

[Black-Balled]

I remember this video....

I remember laughing my ass off at Roberto warming up with Aranas' cue..... what a nut!

Looks like a fine fun time.

What can I say, I wish the pags was MY friend too!

 

[middleofnowhere]

That's a lot of words. You said it wasn't possible, I provided evidence to the contrary and now you've got all these twists.

I bet I can do 80 in 5 racks. Post up and then I'll tell you the conditions.

I said it was not posable to average 12. Average means over time. To beat a proposition you have to do the proposition over and over. An average is not what you do once or even twice. Opening day of the baseball season you will have players posting a batting average of 1000. It won't last even two games most of the time. Thats why it is called an average. I said Danny DiLiberto would bet on 25. That may sound low but he would did it for years, hundreds of sets. It was about an even money bet for him.

 

[middleofnowhere]

a man needs an occasional reminder to not to bet against the Pinoy.

Not if Jay sat back in a chair with his feet up and a stack of money and said "Go at it", the player will go bust. I knew quite a few proposition betters guys like Cueball Kelly. Kelly was mainly a ball spinner. It was always fun when they came around and like suckers we always bit. They always left with the money.

 

[Black-Balled]

I said it was not posable to average 12. Average means over time. To beat a proposition you have to do the proposition over and over. An average is not what you do once or even twice. Opening day of the baseball season you will have players posting a batting average of 1000. It won't last even two games most of the time. Thats why it is called an average. I said Danny DiLiberto would bet on 25. That may sound low but he would do it for days, dozens and dozens sets. It was about an even money bet for him.

Well, jay did sit back with his feet up and a stack of money...and he paid it out.

Feel free to go ahead and figure out the averages for the players shared above.

I guess diliberto must have had quite a few suckers, if his bet was over an indeterminate amount of time...

bald guy. Mike. The cook at the pool room. Do the math.

 

[Black-Balled]

Not if Jay sat back in a chair with his feet up and a stack of money and said "Go at it", the player will go bust. I knew quite a few proposition betters guys like Cueball Kelly. Kelly was mainly a ball spinner. It was always fun when they came around and like suckers we always bit. They always left with the money.

How coild they leave with the money on this one though?

The bet isn't over yet.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Well, jay did sit back with his feet up and a stack of money...and he paid it out.

Feel free to go ahead and figure out the averages for the players shared above.

I guess diliberto must have had quite a few suckers, if his bet was over an indeterminate amount of time...

bald guy. Mike. The cook at the pool room. Do the math.

From what Jay said it was one only time bet. If they kept betting Jay would bust the guy going to 45. Ask Jay if he thinks I'm wrong.

 

[middleofnowhere]

I have to make a correction in something I wrote earlier. I said Danny DiLiberto shot the 5 rack one pocket proposition going to 25. My wife read it and said I was wrong. She said Danny always went to 27. It's like 40 years ago so I have to defer to her, I am sure she is right.

 

[bbb]

I have to make a correction in something I wrote earlier. I said Danny DiLiberto shot the 5 rack one pocket proposition going to 25. My wife read it and said I was wrong. She said Danny always went to 27. It's like 40 years ago so I have to defer to her, I am sure she is right.

You are a lucky man
Your wife obviously loves pool to remember that

 

[Black-Balled]

From what Jay said it was one only time bet. If they kept betting Jay would bust the guy going to 45. Ask Jay if he thinks I'm wrong.

Ahh...the never ending bet.

Good bet, if you can find someone to take the other side.

Meanwhile- in the real wold- if you want to take Danny's 24 and bet Alex or Dennis can't beat that....well, I know a guy who might have their phone#s.

 

[jay helfert]

Trick I was taught is to place the cue ball on the head string an inch off the cushion give or take. Then you aim directly at the middle ball in the back, apply inside english, and shoot. You gotta experiment with the corner ball leaking back but often the cue ball will graze it before it becomes trouble or it behaves in the first place.

There's also a suicidal break where you cut the middle ball on the side as if you're shooting it to your pocket. The apex ball on the other side goes right into the hole. Supposedly...

Interestingly enough no one is talking about the various alternate One Pocket breaks where the corner ball will never leak out. Instead of trying to make a thin hit on the head ball and fuller hit on the second ball, try this same break on the second and third balls in the rack and also on the third and fourth balls and finally on the fourth and fifth balls. When your break is not working move down the rack and you will find a sweet spot to break from. Try it, you'll like it!

 

[Brookeland Bill]

Interestingly enough no one is talking about the various alternate One Pocket breaks where the corner ball will never leak out. Instead of trying to make a thin hit on the head ball and fuller hit on the second ball, try this same break on the second and third balls in the rack and also on the third and fourth balls and finally on the fourth and fifth balls. When your break is not working move down the rack and you will find a sweet spot to break from. Try it, you'll like it!

What about banking it off the long rail into the rack freezin the cue ball into the rack or right next to it.