One-Pocket questions

[BillPorter]

Player A is giving player B 8 to 7. In the course of a game, player B makes his seventh ball, but does not realize it was his game ball and keeps playing. He later scratches and spots a ball, still not realizing that he made his seventh ball several minutes ago. My question(s):

1. If player B had realized that he made his seventh ball 3 or 4 shots after making it, could he fairly stop the game and claim victory at that point?

2. If player B realized that he had seven balls only AFTER his scratch put him back to 6 balls, could he say, "Hey, I already won the game! I had 7 before the scratch," and claim a victory?

It seems to me that once that seventh ball was legally pocketed, the game was finished and player B won. Anything that happened after that was irrelevant. In the actual match, player A claimed he won the game when he made his 8th ball and player B accepted that decision.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Player A is giving player B 8 to 7. In the course of a game, player B makes his seventh ball, but does not realize it was his game ball and keeps playing. He later scratches and spots a ball, still not realizing that he made his seventh ball several minutes ago. My question(s):

1. If player B had realized that he made his seventh ball 3 or 4 shots after making it, could he fairly stop the game and claim victory at that point?

2. If player B realized that he had seven balls only AFTER his scratch put him back to 6 balls, could he say, "Hey, I already won the game! I had 7 before the scratch," and claim a victory?

It seems to me that once that seventh ball was legally pocketed, the game was finished and player B won. Anything that happened after that was irrelevant. In the actual match, player A claimed he won the game when he made his 8th ball and player B accepted that decision.

Bill,from my experience you dont win,you always have to know the count. :smile:

 

[BillPorter]

Bill,from my experience you dont win,you always have to know the count. :smile:

I now think you are correct. I just checked the rules over at Onepocket.org and found this:

"10.1 It is the responsibility of the shooting player to verify their own ball count as they approach their out ball, and the non-shooting player should avoid making comments about how many balls are needed."

 

[thedude]

Bill,from my experience you dont win,you always have to know the count. :smile:

Yeah... there's nothing more important than knowing the score. There's actually a legend of one pocket accu-stats match where something like this happens. It may be on the Jersey Red vs. Bob Osbourse tape. I think Osbourne owes a ball from early in the rack, and both Red and Osbourne forget about it... I could be wrong on the DVD, as Ive got a lot of one pocket footage. I dont think that not respotting the ball caused a loss of match, but it did make the match last much longer... it is mentioned several times by the commentators.

Simple enough, if you can't count.... don't play one pocket.

This happened to me about 3 weeks ago. I shot a ball into the pocket, the ball hangs on the ledge. Doesn't fall immediately. The opponent goes to the table makes two balls, steps back to look at the table. And what do you know, that ball of mine in the corner just drops... My argument was that my turn never ended, and all his shots at the table were fouls as he shot out of order during my turn, you know I's just chillin' cause it was obvious that ball would drop eventually - so the his made balls needed to be re-spotted with penalty balls. His view was that was it his turn at the table, all balls potted should count(incuding mine) and it was still his turn at the table. It was an unusual situation, and we were playing even. We ended up just flipping a coin to decide and he won the flip.

I admit... my argument was weak.. but sometimes you play to win, sometimes you talk to win

 

[Fast Lenny]

Yeah... there's nothing more important than knowing the score. There's actually a legend of one pocket accu-stats match where something like this happens. It may be on the Jersey Red vs. Bob Osbourse tape. I think Osbourne owes a ball from early in the rack, and both Red and Osbourne forget about it... I could be wrong on the DVD, as Ive got a lot of one pocket footage. I dont think that not respotting the ball caused a loss of match, but it did make the match last much longer... it is mentioned several times by the commentators.

Simple enough, if you can't count.... don't play one pocket.

This happened to me about 3 weeks ago. I shot a ball into the pocket, the ball hangs on the ledge. Doesn't fall immediately. The opponent goes to the table makes two balls, steps back to look at the table. And what do you know, that ball of mine in the corner just drops... My argument was that my turn never ended, and all his shots at the table were fouls as he shot out of order during my turn, you know I's just chillin' cause it was obvious that ball would drop eventually - so the his made balls needed to be re-spotted with penalty balls. His view was that was it his turn at the table, all balls potted should count(incuding mine) and it was still his turn at the table. It was an unusual situation, and we were playing even. We ended up just flipping a coin to decide and he won the flip.

I admit... my argument was weak.. but sometimes you play to win, sometimes you talk to win

I have the DVD of Bob and Red and have not watched it all but will sometime today.I think in your case if the ball was up for more then 5 seconds and it drops it gets put in its original position before the fall and he keeps shooting.

 

[Snapshot9]

Comments

He is right, the 5 second rule would apply there. Also, when a ball is owed is why they put a penny on the foot end rail until it is spotted.

 

[androd]

I now think you are correct. I just checked the rules over at Onepocket.org and found this:

"10.1 It is the responsibility of the shooting player to verify their own ball count as they approach their out ball, and the non-shooting player should avoid making comments about how many balls are needed."

this is a totally different secenario, which i fell for ONCE in my life. playing Eddie Burton, i raised up from my shot to count the balls. he stepped forward looked in my pocket and the rack below and said "you need one" after i shot and didn't play position, he said oops i'm sorry you needed two.had i not been winner we would have had an argument.
#1 absolutely
#2 he could claim it, but i'm sure a discussion will follow, i don't know a rule

 

[dabarbr]

Player A is giving player B 8 to 7. In the course of a game, player B makes his seventh ball, but does not realize it was his game ball and keeps playing. He later scratches and spots a ball, still not realizing that he made his seventh ball several minutes ago. My question(s):

1. If player B had realized that he made his seventh ball 3 or 4 shots after making it, could he fairly stop the game and claim victory at that point?

2. If player B realized that he had seven balls only AFTER his scratch put him back to 6 balls, could he say, "Hey, I already won the game! I had 7 before the scratch," and claim a victory?

It seems to me that once that seventh ball was legally pocketed, the game was finished and player B won. Anything that happened after that was irrelevant. In the actual match, player A claimed he won the game when he made his 8th ball and player B accepted that decision.

Player B should have stood his ground. If he could prove that he had seven balls before he fouled then the game was over at that point.

Non of the scenarios above address the original question.

 

[dabarbr]

I now think you are correct. I just checked the rules over at Onepocket.org and found this:

"10.1 It is the responsibility of the shooting player to verify their own ball count as they approach their out ball, and the non-shooting player should avoid making comments about how many balls are needed."

This rule is in reference to the game before the winning ball is pocketed.

 

[gesan]

Hello Bill its been my experience in poolrooms concerning 1 pocket and the situation as you describe it. Which is not that unusal, this is how it plays out.

Once player B becomes aware he would have been putting the cash in his pocket if he had been paying closer attention. He will then pick up the post, ask for the cash or whatever (simultanously raking the remaining balls to the other end of the table). This is to ensure there is no way to continue the game with some sort of compromise. He then raises his hands palms up and looks toward the 10 or so guys that have been watching intently as the game unfolds and says "any you guys see what happened?"

Then some computer scientist who came in early for his APA match will say " I saw what happened and I think based on the rules of so and so or the principals of fairplay that player B should be awarded the cash".

At this point player A will say in his best clint eastwood voice " hey mullethead are you a 1 pocket player?" The nit will now say " I been playing 1 pocket for 25 years" to which player A will respond "well you musta been playing in your basement or you woulda learned to stay out of other peoples games" staring the poor guy into the ground.

Player A now asks the other 10 people watching what they saw and what they think and after the aforementioned exchange all 10 will claim to have not seen anything and to have no idea as to how in the world such a problem could ever be resolved saying such things as it would be easier to fix the US economy and end the War.

At this point B realizes his only hope to get/keep what is rightfully his is to "release the tiger" and then he must ask himself - what is my attitude toward world harmony?

hope this helps

 

[pdcue]

Player B should have stood his ground. If he could prove that he had seven balls before he fouled then the game was over at that point.

Non of the scenarios above address the original question.

I agree completely - 'sleeping' an owed ball, intentionly or not, is not
the same as making the game ball and not noticing.

Dale

 

[gulfportdoc]

It seems to me that once that seventh ball was legally pocketed, the game was finished and player B won. Anything that happened after that was irrelevant. In the actual match, player A claimed he won the game when he made his 8th ball and player B accepted that decision.

Your first assumption was correct, Bill. In a match governed by the standard onepocket.org rules, the first player who scores his final ball wins the game, even if it is discovered only later.

In a private gambling match, of course, the players may play any way they wish. In your scenario, "A" got away with one...

Doc

 

[emoney]

i belive that player b should still win but that yes in an action game they need to keep the count

 

[thedude]

I have the DVD of Bob and Red and have not watched it all but will sometime today.I think in your case if the ball was up for more then 5 seconds and it drops it gets put in its original position before the fall and he keeps shooting.

I thought there was a rule concerning my hanging ball... but it comes up so infrequently neither of us knew the details off hand. It was a friendly game for no cash, just two old friends knocking balls around so it was no big deal. I was quite sure my interpretation of what should be done concerning the dropped ball was wrong enough to have my wrists broke... but as I said we were just shooting for fun so it wasn't any big deal... just lots of woofing between us.... and we then we just flipped a coin.

I could be wrong on the Accu-stats tape I mentioned, but am pretty sure it is the Red vs. Osbourne match.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I thought there was a rule concerning my hanging ball... but it comes up so infrequently neither of us knew the details off hand.

After a reasonable period of time (no one is ever there with a stopwatch) the hanging ball is simply replaced to it's original position. This does come up from time to time. I've even seen it twice where, while a player is shooting at a hanging ball, it suddenly drops in by itself, and the player shoots the CB into an empty pocket mouth! In that case, both balls (and any others) are replaced to their original positions.

Doc