only for the instructor that has the answer

[Neil]

Mr. Sherman,

You may well be correct. That is why I asked that all ulterior motives be put behind that of the betterment of the game. I stumbled onto AZB when looking to buy a LD shaft. After I joined I was shocked at all of the opinions that were being preached as 'god send' & all of the bickering low class arguments about them that were present. Why would I want to take a lesson from any 'prominent' instructor here on AZB?
There are at least 6 "prominent inst., and at least 4 "not so prominent inst" on here. If your statement isn't a blanket statement, I don't know what is. Just because someone teaches something on here, does not mean that they think it is a "god send" and the only way to accomplish a task. You take it that way, because that is how you think about what you say. Hence, the blanket statement against instructors. I would rather find one that knows his or her 'stuff' & that can probably help me in a variety of ways. If you only knows how to skin a cat one way, you better not go to work for a fur coat maker than needs it done another way.There isn't an instructor on here that can't and doesn't do that.

There seems to be two(2) factions on AZB. Those with open minded formed opinions & those who espouse a closed minded dogma. Very true, and anything taught that you personally don't really know about, or care about, you seem to be right there at the rally to knock it.

Fundamentals is a strange word. Arnold Palmer's father taught him 'the golf grip' & told him to never change it. Mr. Palmer has siad that he never did. Many would point out that his golf swing was certainly not 'classic'. Neither was Jack Nicklaus's. They have different grips & different bodies. Then there's Bobby Jones, Harry Vardin, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Billy Casper, Chi Chi Rodrigez, Johnny Miller, Tom Weiscoff, Tiger Woods, & many many more. All great Champions! They all swung the golf club differently. The only fundamental that they all had in common was the ball impact position. You can look at hundreds or even thousands of pictures & would probably be hard pressed to find two(2) that do not match that position & those 2 were probably bad shots.So, what's your point? That any old fundamentals are just fine? Well, most peoples main problem is their fundamentals for exactly that type of thinking. There's a right way, and a wrong way to do things. Most instructors only get a day or so to fix someones fundamentals. So they cut it down to just the basic necessities. Learn that, and what does what, and then later, when the inst. isn't available anymore, you can knowledgeably change a little if you prefer. But, only if you have the taught knowledge to be able to do so. Otherwise, you may very well just be adding problems again.

As Mr. Wiley said in another thread, & I paraphase, you have to put the stick through the cue ball in a straight line, how you get there is up to you.That's true in the most broadest sense of the meaning. CJ said himself he doesn't worry about fundamentals when he teaches someone. That is not his niche of teaching. For him, and many of the pros, they always were able to stroke in a straight, repeatable line, and just can not understand why the vast majority of people cannot do so also. That's essentially the whole shebang for most pros when teaching fundamentals- just put the cue in a straight line. Much easier said than done for 90%+ of the people playing pool.

We are going to disagree as we all come from different backgrounds with regards to playing (& teaching) the game. I simply ask that we ALL do so with a civil repect for one another and each others opinions.
I agree. Which is why I find it offensive that someone saying that then talks out the other side of their face and knocks instructors and what they teach.
They are still searching for 'The Perfect Golf Swing' & I think we are ALL still searching for 'The Perfect Cue Stroke' Why can't we search together in some semplence of unity as the more experienced or learned of the cue sports community as the golf professional do. They teach different 'fundamentals' but they do not put down those of others.Show me where any instructor has put down teaching of fundamentals of another instructor on here. They may disagree about some things, but not put each other down.In fact almost all golf instructors would agree that one needs to find a grouping of certain fundamentals that fit one's own body & natural abilities. There is no one 'size' fits all & there should not be 'my way or the highway'.
Every instructor on here has said the very same thing, so why imply otherwise??
Well, there is another rant on someone else's nickel. I simply ask that we ALL put in a concerned efffort to be civil in our disagreements. I think we all revert to childish behavior at times, certainly myself included, let's just try to limit it as best that each one of us is capable.

Sincerely with Restrained Hope,
Rick

There you go.

 

[ENGLISH!]

There you go.

Neil,

A much more constructive post. Some well made points & particulars. Anyone reading that can make their own determinations. I'm glad that you took the time to do it in that manner & I appreciate it.

Naturally, for the most part I disagree. Although some points may be based on my perception that may or may not be factual & also simply spoken in a different vernacular.

Each side of our differing opinions is there. I will leave it for the general AZB public to make their own assesments.

Thanks again for taking the time to do it in that manner. I' think' I understand your opinions.

I respectfully request that you give me & my 'motives' another consideration. I intend to cause no one any harm. I am not being dishonest nor deceitful with this thread or my intentions

With respects,
Rick

 

[Tony_in_MD]

To be specific, that "quote" (or was it a paraphrase) was from a non-instructor on an aiming forum.

Someone from Chicago, I think.

Gentlemen,

I think there is a bit of mis-communication at hand here. I believe the 'you're stupid, that's not true' quote was an example of what others say to Mr. Sherman. I do not believe he was directing that to anyone.

Just trying to help,
Rick

 

[Neil]

Neil,

A much more constructive post. Some well made points & particulars. Anyone reading that can make their own determinations. I'm glad that you took the time to do it in that manner & I appreciate it.

Naturally, for the most part I disagree. Although some points may be based on my perception that may or may not be factual & also simply spoken in a different vernacular.

Each side of our differing opinions is there. I will leave it for the general AZB public to make their own assesments.

Thanks again for taking the time to do it in that manner. I' think' I understand your opinions.

I respectfully request that you give me & my 'motives' another consideration. I intend to cause no one any harm. I am not being dishonest nor deceitful with this thread or my intentions

With respects,
Rick

Fine. As to your original question, you now see how difficult the written word can be at times. People seeing different things.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Fine. As to your original question, you now see how difficult the written word can be at times. People seeing different things.

Neil,

I've known that for more than 45 years now. The biggest problem in the word is either mis-communication or lack of communication.

Sincerely,
Rick

 

[KRJ]

Gentlemen,

I think there is a bit of mis-communication at hand here. I believe the 'you're stupid, that's not true' quote was an example of what others say to Mr. Sherman. I do not believe he was directing that to anyone.

Just trying to help,
Rick

Well, stop miscommunicating then. Why bring up a phrase that I had nothing to do with, never seen before and don't even know who the heck Mr. Sherman is. Do you see the problem when we do no communicate clearly? Don't worry,, I checked my post for anything "evil" before I hit the submit button....

 

[ENGLISH!]

Please remember the topic of this thread. The question was, & I paraphrase, how can we put an end to all of the bickering, back stabbing, insults, word twisting, personal attacks, etc., etc., etc.

I did not mean to drudge up past transgressions, truthful or percieved.
There comes a time when we need to get ourselves above all of that & move on in a better direction. An Armisitice.

I am not 'preaching' holier than thou stuff. If my nemesis prods me I will probably want to lay into him as I have wanted to in the past but restraint is the better part of valor. However, that does not mean run. It simply means be tactful & respectful while getting your point or objections out & across.

Lets talk POOL not personality. I think...that we all love this game or we would not be here....

Bumped, just as a reminder as to the intentions of this thread which has probably run its' course.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Yes, Honor is a strong word, and I'm giving you the benfit of the doubt, and I'm not questioning your integrity for a second... though you are questioning mine? Is that correct, you're judging me for doing something "evil" ??? Really, "evil"... yowser

And then you use the "you're stupd, that's not true" remark in the post back to me. really, I did nothing to insult you, and never mentioned anything about you "teaching" or anything else for that matter. I did not even know you were a teacher/instructor.... was I suppose to know that ??

For some reason you took it as an insult that I agreed with JustaDub. Or you were insulted that folks with integrity don't have to keep reminding folks they have it... just act like you have it and folks will notice.

Pretty defensive and paranoid, and a little bit "spiteful" for a person following the good book, no ??

Other than that, keep up the good work, I think ??

RJ:

I was not referring to you in ANY way. I meant I'm tired of having other people on AZ say "my teaching sucks" without saying any FACTS they disagree with or citing any facts in evidence supporting their opinions. "You're wrong, the ideal pool stroke is a perfect pendulum..." WHY is that so? Facts. Some of the criticism is justified because I actually post theories and pool facts. Teachers take it on the nose often.

Second, and this more upsetting, I have people who read 50 words of 1,500 word articles and accuse me of evil. Far be from it for me.

 

[FranCrimi]

RJ:

I was not referring to you in ANY way. I meant I'm tired of having other people on AZ say "my teaching sucks" without saying any FACTS they disagree with or citing any facts in evidence supporting their opinions. "You're wrong, the ideal pool stroke is a perfect pendulum..." WHY is that so? Facts. Some of the criticism is justified because I actually post theories and pool facts. Teachers take it on the nose often.

Second, and this more upsetting, I have people who read 50 words of 1,500 word articles and accuse me of evil. Far be from it for me.

Matt, if you want to continue to try to convince people you're an expert, then may I suggest that you take down all photos of yourself from your web site where you are demonstrating correct positions. You're giving yourself away as someone who is a rank amateur player. There are signs that I am not going to share with you that make your level as a player obvious to those of us who can play.

Pool is not football, Matt. If you want to teach, you have to know how to play. If you don't truly know what something feels like, you can't explain it to a student. Copying and rewriting other people's explanations is not going to cut it.

Regarding the information you post, there are many many things I disagree with that are not worth arguing with you because you aren't qualified to argue the points. I think that you can hurt a lot of players with your information, such as statements like this:

"Standing 45 degrees to the shot at hand helps relax the pocket billiards shooter and find balance. My weight is set about 50-50 atop each leg during play."

Did you just copy that from someone else, or did you actually study it?

That whole 'poor me' spiel that you rant about doesn't cut it. Enough people have recognized that you are no expert. If you really have a passion to learn to teach pool, then go back to the beginning and start by learning to play.

 

[Ratta]

Matt, if you want to continue to try to convince people you're an expert, then may I suggest that you take down all photos of yourself from your web site where you are demonstrating correct positions. You're giving yourself away as someone who is a rank amateur player. There are signs that I am not going to share with you that make your level as a player obvious to those of us who can play.

Pool is not football, Matt. If you want to teach, you have to know how to play. If you don't truly know what something feels like, you can't explain it to a student. Copying and rewriting other people's explanations is not going to cut it.

Regarding the information you post, there are many many things I disagree with that are not worth arguing with you because you aren't qualified to argue the points. I think that you can hurt a lot of players with your information, such as statements like this:

"Standing 45 degrees to the shot at hand helps relax the pocket billiards shooter and find balance. My weight is set about 50-50 atop each leg during play."

Did you just copy that from someone else, or did you actually study it?

That whole 'poor me' spiel that you rant about doesn't cut it. Enough people have recognized that you are no expert. If you really have a passion to learn to teach pool, then go back to the beginning and start by learning to play.

Agree with Fran.

 

[justadub]

The thread was appropriate for my comment. It was asked why people are rude to one another at AZ. I am not rude and shared my convictions why I try to be a decent Christian.

I'm not looking to argue with you, but I would ask why when I talk about Jesus it is inappropriate but when you state your religious opinion that it's appropriate.

Ah, but you see I did NOT state my religious opinion. All I did was to point out YOU bringing it up.

I really dislike getting into arguments about religion, because it is so very personal to everyone. And that is how it should be, personal. What and how you believe can be very different than what the next person thinks. And that's ok, and that's also what makes it inappropriate to bring Jesus into a discussion about pool. To me. (Or Muhammad, or Buddha, or whoever anyone worships.).

You don't know my religious opinions or perspectives, because I have not shared them here. You might make assumptions, but you do not (and likely will not) know. And you will likely be wrong in those assumptions....again, many folks get very personal about their beliefs and about those who do not share those beliefs. It is the primary cause for the great trouble this world is in, and most do not want to concede that "their" god might well be the same as the other guys, under a different name. Or none at all. None of us will ever really know until we cannot share it with each other, in any event.

Sorry for the de-rail, instructors. I agree that this place would be a far better asset to everyone if we could all try to get along, or at the very least "agree to disagree" and to behave more civilly towards each other.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Ah, but you see I did NOT state my religious opinion. All I did was to point out YOU bringing it up.

I really dislike getting into arguments about religion, because it is so very personal to everyone. And that is how it should be, personal. What and how you believe can be very different than what the next person thinks. And that's ok, and that's also what makes it inappropriate to bring Jesus into a discussion about pool. To me. (Or Muhammad, or Buddha, or whoever anyone worships.)

Sorry for the de-rail, instructors. I agree that this place would be a far better asset to everyone if we could all try to get along, or at the very least "agree to disagree" and to behave more civilly towards each other.

Dub,

Well said. Thanks for your input.

Regards,
Rick

PS Since you're Justadub, What exactly is a 'dub'?

 

[justadub]

Dub,

Well said. Thanks for your input.

Regards,
Rick

PS Since you're Justadub, What exactly is a 'dub'?

It's a colloquialism (and a regional one at that) for someone not very good at something. "Just dubbing around here" and imagine that being said in a thick downeast Maine fishermans dialect. If you've ever heard Bert and I, or Tim Sample, those are good examples.

It's really a poor choice for a screen name, but it was all I could come up with when I first joined the forum. I never dreamed that I would get so involved here, and just punched in something innocuous to be able to use the forum at the time. One day I'll probably have the mods change it to my given name.

Bruce

 

[ENGLISH!]

Help?

As most know, I've only been here since June 2012. I am not aware of the history of AZB or other histories. At times I want to comment about something but refrain from doing so because it is obvious that I do not have enough background information to do so intelligently.

That thought just recently gave me an idea. Perhaps there should be a resource on AZB that lists the instructors & there credentials & background. That being said, I do not mean to suggest that 'credentials' are required to teach. The proof is in the pudding not what it says on the pudding mix box.

I just feel it might be a valuable asset for 'viewers' to enhance their opinions of advice that they 'see' & it might also increase enrollemnt for lessons for the instructors. Word of mouth is the best 'advertisement' but I also know doing one's research is also a good idea to support word of mouth advertisement.

Just an idea. I'm probably not the first one to think of this & there may be problems with doing it. I did not think it out fully. I just wanted to put it out as 'food' for thought.

Just trying to help.

Sincerely,
Rick

 

[Mr. Bond]

there was a similar situation playing out over in the mechanics forum not too long ago, with some of the mechanics snapping at each other and nitpicking... it wasnt pleasant to behold, and i'm quite sure that many readers (and potential customers) were turned off by it. all i could think was: dont they understand that (right or wrong) it's making them all look bad ?

even more senseless was the fact that they would even fight about ways to be more "professional". can you say: counterproductive?

long story short - we set up a private sub-forum just for the mechanics, ( a "back room" so to speak ) to use as a place for not only sharing information and leads, but to also give them a place to vent and discuss issues in private, rather than showing their asses in public.

just something to think about

 

[ENGLISH!]

there was a similar situation playing out over in the mechanics forum not too long ago, with some of the mechanics snapping at each other and nitpicking... it wasnt pleasant to behold, and i'm quite sure that many readers (and potential customers) were turned off by it. all i could think was: dont they understand that (right or wrong) it's making them all look bad ?

even more senseless was the fact that they would even fight about ways to be more "professional". can you say: counterproductive?

long story short - we set up a private sub-forum just for the mechanics, ( a "back room" so to speak ) to use as a place for not only sharing information and leads, but to also give them a place to vent and discuss issues in private, rather than showing their asses in public.

just something to think about

Thanks James...., I mean Mr. Bond, for your insightful input.

Best Regards,
Rick

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Matt, if you want to continue to try to convince people you're an expert, then may I suggest that you take down all photos of yourself from your web site where you are demonstrating correct positions. You're giving yourself away as someone who is a rank amateur player. There are signs that I am not going to share with you that make your level as a player obvious to those of us who can play.

Pool is not football, Matt. If you want to teach, you have to know how to play. If you don't truly know what something feels like, you can't explain it to a student. Copying and rewriting other people's explanations is not going to cut it.

Regarding the information you post, there are many many things I disagree with that are not worth arguing with you because you aren't qualified to argue the points. I think that you can hurt a lot of players with your information, such as statements like this:

"Standing 45 degrees to the shot at hand helps relax the pocket billiards shooter and find balance. My weight is set about 50-50 atop each leg during play."

Did you just copy that from someone else, or did you actually study it?

That whole 'poor me' spiel that you rant about doesn't cut it. Enough people have recognized that you are no expert. If you really have a passion to learn to teach pool, then go back to the beginning and start by learning to play.

Hi Fran,

Quite a thread you picked to argue on when we're all trying to make the peace!

I'm more 60/40 to put emphasis on the forward and down move with the stick--sorry if that wasn't more clear. More weight is usually on my front foot.

By standing 45 degrees I'm referring to the fact that my trunk is turned to the shot and my head turns atop the neck with it. Think of the overhead look at Robert Bryne in his books. My left eye is closer to the shot than my right usually, I'm right handed. Whoever takes a step forward with one foot is turned about 45 degrees before they bend to the full stance. Anatomical fact.

You can criticize my high stance or whatever you like--you're entitled--and you've earned it with your career and skills--I'm not criticizing you. I get into some good cash games with my stance and "look". There are plenty of people who slap their chin on the stick and also need a chiropractor to boot.

As it stands, you assaulted me for criticizing "pillars" of the game. I have a LOT of readers and a lot of experts who appreciate my work. You have a double standard at this point.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Fran:

I'm sorry, but I'm dissatisfied with my previous post and I apologize for being grumpy. It has been pointed out, accurately I think, that I find myself defending myself often on these forums, so I'll say my piece now then stop.

You criticized (perhaps justly) four things that are important to me in two of your posts:

1. My Christian integrity and character

2. My website

3. My instruction

4. My playing ability

You did this on a thread whose goal is to end the silly bickering among instructors and students at these forums. I have no idea where this came from. With the pseudo-instructors who teach here, I discerned there was jealousy whenever a new "shooter" came to town. You can see their childish behavior in other threads where I am not present.

You are not like that at all and did not respond critically where I've posted to the same threads as you these last few weeks that I've been somewhat active on these forums. You are very helpful and kind to students all over these forums so I'm unsure where all this is coming from.

But you know what would have been really nice? A PM or e-mail, in which you could have said all the same things you did and I would have readily responded courteously to you privately. Going forward, I will try to use that as well and keep only positive comments on the forums. That option remains open to you if you like with me, by the way, and I'd be so pleased if you'd care to critique my instruction so I can learn from you.

When I see you again in person, I will remain courteous and respectful to you. I hope you do the same.

And I'm not trying to shut you down with offering private communication. If you want to critique the photos of my stance and so on publicly, go right ahead. I'd be fascinated to learn more. And unlike Vincent Lauria when he was beating Earthquake, I want the odds up on me in Atlantic City.

I'm done arguing with you in public on these forums and I leave you the last word. Thank you.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I really dislike getting into arguments about religion, because it is so very personal to everyone. And that is how it should be, personal. What and how you believe can be very different than what the next person thinks. And that's ok, and that's also what makes it inappropriate to bring Jesus into a discussion about pool. To me. (Or Muhammad, or Buddha, or whoever anyone worships.).

My friend,

I'm down with that, as long as you recognize that like me, you are stating your religious opinion on this forum. Your opinion about religion is that you don't like talking about it and you talked about that. You brought Muhammed and Buddha in also, where I brought Jesus with me.

Free lesson on me or a free draft beer in a large mug (your choice) when I see you in person!

(Waiting for some other poster than us to say "I'll take the beer, please" although I charge $250 for a lesson plus expenses...)

Yours sincerely,

Mattie (Very nice in person if a tad obnoxious on a forum)

 

[dr9ball]

Matt, if you want to continue to try to convince people you're an expert, then may I suggest that you take down all photos of yourself from your web site where you are demonstrating correct positions. You're giving yourself away as someone who is a rank amateur player. There are signs that I am not going to share with you that make your level as a player obvious to those of us who can play.

Pool is not football, Matt. If you want to teach, you have to know how to play. If you don't truly know what something feels like, you can't explain it to a student. Copying and rewriting other people's explanations is not going to cut it.

Regarding the information you post, there are many many things I disagree with that are not worth arguing with you because you aren't qualified to argue the points. I think that you can hurt a lot of players with your information, such as statements like this:

"Standing 45 degrees to the shot at hand helps relax the pocket billiards shooter and find balance. My weight is set about 50-50 atop each leg during play."

Did you just copy that from someone else, or did you actually study it?

That whole 'poor me' spiel that you rant about doesn't cut it. Enough people have recognized that you are no expert. If you really have a passion to learn to teach pool, then go back to the beginning and start by learning to play.

That's some tough love right there Fran. Sometimes it's needed. Kudos to you for saying it.