Opinions from IPT viewers....

[mnorwood]

What was your impression of the IPT event in Orlando? Do you think the matchs will make for interesting t.v.? Do you think the general public will buy it?

I for one have been an IPT skeptic. However, I will make my final judgement when I see the orlando event on t.v.

I also was wrong about the number of break and runs. What do you attribute the low number to? Do you think the number of break and runs will increase as the players get accustomed to the slow cloth?

 

[Timberly]

As far as the lack of break & runs... I can only venture a guess. Almost everyone in this tourney grew up on 9 ball. The one's that didn't grow up on 9 ball are the HOF's that while still good, are past their prime playing ability. 8 ball requires a totally different strategy than 9 ball. I think as time goes by and more 8 ball is played, you'll see more break & runs. I could be totally wrong here but I can't help but think a small part of it is due to the different mindset needed to play 8 ball as opposed to 9 ball.

 

[pete lafond]

What was your impression of the IPT event in Orlando? Do you think the matchs will make for interesting t.v.? Do you think the general public will buy it?

I for one have been an IPT skeptic. However, I will make my final judgement when I see the orlando event on t.v.

I also was wrong about the number of break and runs. What do you attribute the low number to? Do you think the number of break and runs will increase as the players get accustomed to the slow cloth?

Actually amoung the top players 9 ball runs were from 30% to 46% which is still much higher than in 9 ball. A very offensive game. I do think we can expect this percentage to rise as the players play more 8 ball and as you said get more accustomed to the slower cloth (also tighter pockets).

 

[jnav447]

I live in Orlando, so I got some pretty good feedback on the relatively low number of break-and-runs: it was because of the break. I played a little on a Diamond table set up just like the tournement tables and crushed the balls on the break and got zip to show for it. VERY hard to separate the balls, make a ball, and hold whitey. When most of the players broke well, they ran out. I don't think the tournement will be a big hit, honestly, on TV. There is no compelling subplot (like Chris Moneymaker winning 2.5 mil in the WSOP on a $40 flyer). The $ has to be astronomical to get attention, and, to be honest, there just aren't enough "personalities" in the IPT group to capture a fan base. IMO, the most watchable pool I've seen in a long time is the 10-ball and bank ring games from the Derby City Classic. Jack the prize way up there, get the right players and it might be good TV. Historically, the only thing that has given the pool world a boost is a movie (Hustler, TCOM). Will someone please make a movie about Cornbread Red or Scotty Townsend?

 

[Island Drive]

Rag Cloth

With slow cloth Danny Medina (he beat Efren in the 8 Ball event @ Rivera finals) may have been one of the few players to do allot of break and runs, other than David Howard. I think not having Simonis, the ball separation was poor, there fore the 'steering of Sigels advice' to KT kinda backfired when it came to break and run outs.

 

[Snapshot9]

I think you are wrong ...

to assume that all these guys grew up on 9 ball. I think
they played just as much 8 ball as 9 ball, but they compete
mostly in 9 ball. It is a pretty well known fact that if you
get ahold of just a 9 ball player, the best way to beat them
is to switch them over to 8 ball, which always is weaker.
Besides, a good player knows how to play ALL games well.

 

[Timberly]

to assume that all these guys grew up on 9 ball. I think
they played just as much 8 ball as 9 ball, but they compete
mostly in 9 ball. It is a pretty well known fact that if you
get ahold of just a 9 ball player, the best way to beat them
is to switch them over to 8 ball, which always is weaker.
Besides, a good player knows how to play ALL games well.

Please allow me to rephrase what I said ....MOST people "grow up" (start out) playing 8 ball... it's the common game amongst the average Joe's of the world. The guys/gals that really have talent, somewhere along the way found themselves in the pool hall where the gambling takes place & maybe a weekly tournament. Once they make the move from average Joe to pool player, pretty much all the they played was 9 ball. Keep in mind, I'm 33 yrs old & this is the generation that I'm speaking of. No, they didn't exactly start off playing 9 ball but as soon as they started really playing...tourney's & gambling...it was all 9 ball. Those that reach an even higher level of play are the ones that can pretty much play all games well. Lets face it, pool is pool. Some games require someone to be good at safe's, some banks, etc... in the end, pool is pool & they have to pocket balls. With that being said, let me go back to what I first stated.... Most of the folks on the IPT have only played 9 ball in competition... 9 ball is ingrained on their brain. Can they play 8 ball?? Certainly! Are the games two different mindsets with different strategies? Yes. As these folks play more 8 ball and start to see the patterns and strategies a little more clearly, I think there will be more break & runs down the road. The cloth is another factor... again, for my age group....most might've started out (back to the average Joe) on slow cloth but by the time they were teenagers & playing well...gambling & tourney's... all the pool rooms had simonis cloth. Scott, I can't speak for your generation... I can only speak for mine and the conditions that I grew up playing on, in the area that I was from.

 

[jsp]

I don't think the tournement will be a big hit, honestly, on TV. There is no compelling subplot...

Are you kidding me? Reyes reaching the final against Sigel, arguably two of the greatest pool players of all time, is not a big enough subplot? Three Filipinos (Efren, Busta, and Manalo) going 1,2,3, battling it out for the final spot, having the decision go to the final matches of the final round? All the HOF players playing against the current greats of today's game? The winner being not only a HOF old-timer, but still arguably the best pool player of today's game? Lots of subplots if you ask me.

EDIT: Don't forget about Manalo's unprecedented undefeated run.

 

[Timberly]

Are you kidding me? Reyes reaching the final against Sigel, arguably two of the greatest pool players of all time, is not a big enough subplot? Three Filipinos (Efren, Busta, and Manalo) going 1,2,3, battling it out for the final spot, having the decision go to the final matches of the final round? All the HOF players playing against the current greats of today's game? The winner being not only a HOF old-timer, but still arguably the best pool player of today's game? Lots of subplots if you ask me.

For pool players, it's great. For John Q Public.... unfortunately they have no idea who these champions are. I can't speak for jnav447 but I assume that's what they're talking about.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Actually amoung the top players 9 ball runs were from 30% to 46% which is still much higher than in 9 ball. A very offensive game. I do think we can expect this percentage to rise as the players play more 8 ball and as you said get more accustomed to the slower cloth (also tighter pockets).

Actually, I see the percentages lowering drastically initially, as the other 107 IPT members join the fray. If we were as consistent as the other 43 players (give or take a few HOFers, then we would have been invited to play too, IMHO). The break box, smaller pockets, not being used to the tv cameras, slower cloth, etc., may make it even tougher for most of the remaining 107 to catch a gear right away. I would think the percentages will rise after that though.

It's a rumor that they may tighten the pockets to 4 1/4", get even slower cloth (the cloth they used would not have slowed down for a few weeks), and use IPT balls (2 colors and a heavier CB?), which will lower everyone's percentages.

 

[jsp]

For pool players, it's great. For John Q Public.... unfortunately they have no idea who these champions are. I can't speak for jnav447 but I assume that's what they're talking about.

Understood. If you believe that the "subplots" that I previously mentioned wouldn't excite the average Joe, then what would? After all, no one knew who Moneymaker was until the commentators educated the viewing audience. Why can't the commentators for KOTH do the same thing about Efren?

 

[Timberly]

Understood. If you believe that the "subplots" that I previously mentioned wouldn't excite the average Joe, then what would? After all, no one knew who Moneymaker was until the commentators educated the viewing audience. Why can't the commentators for KOTH do the same thing about Efren?

I didn't say that it wouldn't or couldn't work. I just tried to help clarify what jnav447 was saying.

Speaking for myself...pool can work on tv for John Q Public... however, what works for them will not necessarily please people in the pool world. Ex: many here were not pleased with the airing of the LLJ vs MS match. I believe one person used WWE (whatever it's called-wrestling) to describe their thoughts on it. If someone doesn't know pool, they can't appreciate the level of difficulty of some of the greatest shots. A player can make a shot look so simple but those of us that know, realize what kind of skill it took to make that shot. It can be done, it will be difficult, and I seriously doubt that the pool world in general will be pleased with the outcome. JMO

 

[Cornerman]

I also was wrong about the number of break and runs. What do you attribute the low number to? Do you think the number of break and runs will increase as the players get accustomed to the slow cloth?

There were plenty of break and runs and a higher percentage of break and runs compared to any 9-ball tournmanent. What did you think it was going to be?

And yes, the slower cloth and SARDO rack probably contributed to keeping the number from going higher.

Fred

 

[jnav447]

I'm a member of the ESPN ZONE and I just completed a survey dealing with televised events. Everything you can think of was included, except....you guessed it - pool and water polo. Kinda shows where pool stands, at least with ESPN (guess Trick Shot Magic and women's tour ain't working out). To break out of the doldrums, televised pool events HAVE to offer something other than great players with (mostly) little charisma making the game look easier than it is. I remember when bowling was a very popular TV enterprise; it wound up about where pool is because they never changed the format from the 50's. Pool has so many different games and options compared to other disciplines that the right mix for TV is achievable. I thought the scotch doubles that aired years ago (pro players paired with Playboy Playmates, etc) was pretty entertaining. How about a reality series? Give Scotty Townsend $50,000, put him on the road and televise the fun. Anybody don't watch that is in a coma. C'mon TV people - you guys are creative, right?

 

[JAM]

I'm a member of the ESPN ZONE and I just completed a survey dealing with televised events. Everything you can think of was included, except....you guessed it - pool and water polo....

I joined ESPN Zone a while back myself. I had extreme difficulty finding a link to pool on the website. It's buried in there under the miscellaneous sports.

How about a reality series? Give Scotty Townsend $50,000, put him on the road and televise the fun. Anybody don't watch that is in a coma. C'mon TV people - you guys are creative, right?

I was tickled pink to see Scotty Townsend in Orlando last week. We will all be treated to see him compete on the IPT tournament trail up ahead as an IPT member! Picture of Scotty Townsend and Keith taken at the players meeting.

JAM

 

[sizl]

I joined ESPN Zone a while back myself. I had extreme difficulty finding a link to pool on the website. It's buried in there under the miscellaneous sports.



I was tickled pink to see Scotty Townsend in Orlando last week. We will all be treated to see him compete on the IPT tournament trail up ahead as an IPT member! Picture of Scotty Townsend and Keith taken at the players meeting.

JAM

Scotty and Keith dressed to the "nines", I love it VERY NICE PIC Thanks Jam!

 

[JLW]

Are you kidding me? Reyes reaching the final against Sigel, arguably two of the greatest pool players of all time, is not a big enough subplot? Three Filipinos (Efren, Busta, and Manalo) going 1,2,3, battling it out for the final spot, having the decision go to the final matches of the final round? All the HOF players playing against the current greats of today's game? The winner being not only a HOF old-timer, but still arguably the best pool player of today's game? Lots of subplots if you ask me.
.

Jsp- JMO, but most people have absolutely no idea who Mike Sigel and Efren Reyes are. Or any other top player for that matter. Keith McCready would probably be one of the more recognizable male players, and most who recognized him would think his name was Grady Seasons. The sad fact is that pool is not that popular as a sport in this country. Lots of people go to the bars and bang the balls around, but they don't actively follow the sport in any real way.

Think about it this way. If pool was really that popular with John Q Public, we wouldn't be having these discussions about getting it on tv. Public demand would guarantee that it was on. I think it can become popular, but the public will have to get to know the players and their personalities, the rivalries, the strategies of the games, etc. I think we have to be realistic though. At this point in time, most people don't know or care anything about professional pool.

 

[Snapshot9]

Not the cheapest route, but ...

i agree with you JLW most john and jane Q public have no idea who any of the pro players are. i play alot of poker and asked everyone (about 25 different people) if they knew who Minnesota Fats was a few ole timers like myself knew, most of the younger players had no idea ,most figured he was an oldtime poker player.when i asked about Efren they all thought he was maybe a boxer or ultimate fighter of some sort.my interest in pool was passed on by my father and grandfather,my other 3 brothers have no interest in the game, ive passed it on to a few of my grandsons, my son likes to play but doesnt have the love for the game like i do.how do you reach these guys, this is up to KT and the IPT ive done my job ive raised a bunch of kids now he's gota find a way to entertain them..my part was easy and fun. i also have 3 daughters. 8 total grandsons 1 granddaughter and just celebrated 29th anniv.

For each of your relation you want to entice towards the sport, you pay
a $1 to each for each Pool question you pose to them when they research
and find out the answer. Over time, they will learn more about the sport
which should peak their curiousity about learning more, and watching it
on TV...... lol Like I said, not the cheapest, but will work.

 

[frankncali]

Subplots and drama are created in production, editing and marketing.
The WSOP shows on ESPN are a prime example. There is some natural drama but it is heightened.
With something this new I think there is literally hundreds if not thousands
of angles to play.


I think we as non-pro pool players place a higher skill level on the Pros than
what should be expected. I would think that 30-40% for runouts would be
expected. Also I think that maybe after playing it a little more the runout level might drop a bit. No matter what the game is defense always seems to make its way around. I think players might tightened up a little when they realize missing a couple shots or breakouts cost them $$$$$$.

 

[Snapshot9]

yes, it will

Subplots and drama are created in production, editing and marketing.
The WSOP shows on ESPN are a prime example. There is some natural drama but it is heightened.
With something this new I think there is literally hundreds if not thousands
of angles to play.


I think we as non-pro pool players place a higher skill level on the Pros than
what should be expected. I would think that 30-40% for runouts would be
expected. Also I think that maybe after playing it a little more the runout level might drop a bit. No matter what the game is defense always seems to make its way around. I think players might tightened up a little when they realize missing a couple shots or breakouts cost them $$$$$$.

tighten up, and it should. A pro player can usually evaluate his competition
pretty well. He generally knows if his offensive skill is less, equal, or greater
than his opponent even if he never says it to anyone. If it is less, then he
sure won't beat that opponent with offense, will he? The only way to beat
him is with defense, thereby minimizing his offensive skill, and creating
opportunity for himself. Yes, I know, but I am not talking about Efren, I am
talking about your normal pro player.