Opposite eye dominance problem..Huge..........

genomachino

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi there everyone,

I try to share things from time to time with my fellow AZer's.

During my teachings I learn new things all the time.

Something I recently learned I'm adding to my new Perfect Aim video I want to share. It really punches holes in the old theory that you just get in the preshot position and just see it the best you can.

If you are opposite eye dominant you have big trouble the natural start of the aiming process called the preshot..

For those of you that don't know, opposite eye dominance is when you are right handed and left eye dominant of left handed right eye dominant.

Players that are right eye dominant, right handed or left eye dominant, left handed don't seem to have this visual trouble that I am going to explain.

Most players that are left eye dominant but right handed aim guns and other things with their right eye because they are right handed. If they are left handed, right eye dominant the same things apply. I'm one of these opposite eyed people.

In fact many of these players even flunk the normal eye dominance tests because they use the right eye so much with these other things that they just over ride the dominant vision tests.

In fact about 50% of these players flunk the normal pointing or looking through circles eye dominance tests.

If you are one of these opposite eye dominant players and do a preshot routine you are probably in the wrong position in your preshot routine right from the start.

Almost every player that I am teaching Perfect Aim to that is opposite eye dominant starts out in the preshot with the non dominant eye in the dominant position. On their way down they switch to their dominant eye assuming it's dominant position naturally. Unfortuanately naturally doesn't get you to the right spot when your starting point is kind of screwed up from the beginning.

Your stance is a little off right from the start and so is stroke. This can make your starting point in your preshot off by as much as 1" to 3 or 4 inches.

So much for naturally being in the right position.

You need the same picture in the preshot that you will see when you get down to address the ball. So you need the dominant eye in the correct position in the preshot and in the actual shooting position also.

Here's the big problem. In the preshot position the shot looks just as correct whether your looking right eyed or left eyed. On the way down you will naturally sway to the dominant eye otherwise the shot will look real bad.

If there is anyone that wants to understand exactly how this works, give me a call. I will help you see what I'm talking about. 715=563=8712.

All I ask for the free advice is you reply to this thread after the call to tell your results and findings to other Azer's.

This will encourage other to try and figure this out for themselves.

This all by itself is causing alot of players to miss an awful lot of shots.

For anyone that doesn't think it makes any difference to know your dominant eye better think again and try to figure out what I'm talking about.

Anyone that calls, make sure you are at a pool table. It will only take about 5 minutes to help you see this correctly.

Have a great day geno.......
 
genomachino said:
Hi there everyone,

I try to share things from time to time with my fellow AZer's.

During my teachings I learn new things all the time.

Something I recently learned I'm adding to my new Perfect Aim video I want to share. It really punches holes in the old theory that you just get in the preshot position and just see it the best you can.

If you are opposite eye dominant you have big trouble the natural start of the aiming process called the preshot..

For those of you that don't know, opposite eye dominance is when you are right handed and left eye dominant of left handed right eye dominant.

Players that are right eye dominant, right handed or left eye dominant, left handed don't seem to have this visual trouble that I am going to explain.

Most players that are left eye dominant but right handed aim guns and other things with their right eye because they are right handed. If they are left handed, right eye dominant the same things apply. I'm one of these opposite eyed people.

In fact many of these players even flunk the normal eye dominance tests because they use the right eye so much with these other things that they just over ride the dominant vision tests.

In fact about 50% of these players flunk the normal pointing or looking through circles eye dominance tests.

If you are one of these opposite eye dominant players and do a preshot routine you are probably in the wrong position in your preshot routine right from the start.

Almost every player that I am teaching Perfect Aim to that is opposite eye dominant starts out in the preshot with the non dominant eye in the dominant position. On their way down they switch to their dominant eye assuming it's dominant position naturally. Unfortuanately naturally doesn't get you to the right spot when your starting point is kind of screwed up from the beginning.

Your stance is a little off right from the start and so is stroke. This can make your starting point in your preshot off by as much as 1" to 3 or 4 inches.

So much for naturally being in the right position.

You need the same picture in the preshot that you will see when you get down to address the ball. So you need the dominant eye in the correct position in the preshot and in the actual shooting position also.

Here's the big problem. In the preshot position the shot looks just as correct whether your looking right eyed or left eyed. On the way down you will naturally sway to the dominant eye otherwise the shot will look real bad.

If there is anyone that wants to understand exactly how this works, give me a call. I will help you see what I'm talking about. 715=563=8712.

All I ask for the free advice is you reply to this thread after the call to tell your results and findings to other Azer's.

This will encourage other to try and figure this out for themselves.

This all by itself is causing alot of players to miss an awful lot of shots.

For anyone that doesn't think it makes any difference to know your dominant eye better think again and try to figure out what I'm talking about.

Anyone that calls, make sure you are at a pool table. It will only take about 5 minutes to help you see this correctly.

Have a great day geno.......
Click to expand...


You select and commit to your Pre-Shot Routine based upon the success it gives you pocketing balls and managing the cue ball. Dan't matter were the eyes is.

Lou Figueroa
oh yeah
have a great day
and all that
 
lfigueroa said:
You select and commit to your Pre-Shot Routine based upon the success it gives you pocketing balls and managing the cue ball. Dan't matter were the eyes is.

Lou Figueroa
oh yeah
have a great day
and all that
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. I'm a righty that shoots lefty. One day I had an old fellow in the bar ask me if I wanted to shoot a few. After a few racks, he asks me to tilt my head(or un-tilt, I guess) before I line up. Ended up choking an easy shot at the end of the 3rd rack(of shooting that way), but I did notice an immediate change in my shot perception.

I'll consciously make that effort nowadays when I find that I need to buckle down and play seriously.
 
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For what it's worth, years ago, and I do mean years ago, in Billiard Digest magazine I remember reading an article that said cross dominance is a good thing.

Being right handed and left eyed, places your dominant eye in a leading position as you stand 45 degrees to the shot.
 
Banks...I think that's what Lou was saying. Aiming is perceptual, and we all perceive differently. Position your cue under where you perceive a straight line (whether your head is tilted or not). We "see" with both eyes once we get past about 3 feet away (from our eyes).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Banks said:
I don't know about that. I'm a righty that shoots lefty. One day I had an old fellow in the bar ask me if I wanted to shoot a few. After a few racks, he asks me to tilt my head(or un-tilt, I guess) before I line up. Ended up choking an easy shot at the end of the 3rd rack(of shooting that way), but I did notice an immediate change in my shot perception.

I'll consciously make that effort nowadays when I find that I need to buckle down and play seriously.
Click to expand...
 
Banks said:
I don't know about that. I'm a righty that shoots lefty. One day I had an old fellow in the bar ask me if I wanted to shoot a few. After a few racks, he asks me to tilt my head(or un-tilt, I guess) before I line up. Ended up choking an easy shot at the end of the 3rd rack, but I did notice an immediate change in my shot perception.

I'll consciously make that effort nowadays when I find that I need to buckle down and play seriously.
Click to expand...


I think sometimes they coincide. But really, isn't it all about what makes the balls go in the pockets and the cue ball go where you want it to? Who is to say that wouldn't be to one eye or the other, or right down the middle, regardless of dominace?

When Geno was in St. Louis a few months ago I showed him I could pocket balls equally well with the cue under either eye. But, one side was just more comfortable to me. He then asked me: if I had BIH, which side I would shoot a spot shot from and I told him the right side of the table and he was like: See, that's because of your eye dominance. And I said: No. That would be because, as a right hander, I don't have to contend with the rail for my bridge hand on the right side, like I would shooting from the left.

For some players, moving the alignment from one eye to the other is more about what it is going on moving their grip arm a scooch more to one side than what's going on with the eye itself. IOW, you could gain the same and/or more improvement just from that slight alignment change.

Personally, I think Geno makes a specious case for all this eye dominance stuff. Next thing you know he's going to go on for five pages about how this was the way Mosconi did it, only to admit at the end he foopawed :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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When the old guy showed me, I was pretty much going along with him just to be nice, as somebody always has something to say or do to help another person out.

All he had me do is keep my eyes level and over the cue. It felt kinda odd at first, since I had to kink my neck a little, but I can tell it helps when I do it. He didn't ask me to do anything else different, just to twist my head a little to get my eyes level.

It may be one of those things that helps to realign your shots and is slowly integrated into how you line up aiming, but eye placement did help me. Also notice a slight difference concentrating a little bit more on my dominant eye when aiming, but is kind of a pain since it seems to be a fine line between putting a little more trust into one eye(while looking with both) and focusing too much with one eye.

Admittedly, my fundamentals are probably a 1 out of 10, as I'll shoot nearly standing up sometimes, have no preset shot routine, may go a rack withouth chalking, etc etc.
 
How do you know this?

lfigueroa said:
You select and commit to your Pre-Shot Routine based upon the success it gives you pocketing balls and managing the cue ball. Dan't matter were the eyes is.

Lou Figueroa
oh yeah
have a great day
and all that
Click to expand...

You must have put alot of thought into this.

You are dead wrong and I can even prove it and have over 100's of lessons where I had to find everyones dominant eye to help them see the shots better and increase their pocketing ability.

I've seen this with about every opposite eyed lesson I have given.

In fact, I think I even helped you find your pool shooting dominant eye on my way through St Louis a while back. I think you said you found out which eye was slightly dominant. I don't remember which one.

Knowing what eye is dominant doesn't do you any good unless you know how to use it.

When you shoot to the right your right eye shoots the shot. When you shoot to the left your left eye shoots the shot.

Your dominant eye and your nondominant eyes shoot totally different.

Again, if you don't know what to do with it knowing the dominant eye will never help you.

Never is a long time of not knowing.

have a great day geno............
 
It can cause alot of trouble............

3andstop said:
For what it's worth, years ago, and I do mean years ago, in Billiard Digest magazine I remember reading an article that said cross dominance is a good thing.

Being right handed and left eyed, places your dominant eye in a leading position as you stand 45 degrees to the shot.
Click to expand...

I know one thing, that the players that shoot with one eye that play alot get real deadly on their shooting.

If your right handed and left eye dominant for instance, your head is shifted to the right naturally depending how strong your dominant eye is. This can cause some physical problems especially if you have to jack up a little.

I really can't think of any advantage at all. There might be but I've never seen it.

If you are right eyed and right handed the cue and the dominant eye are on the same side. Makes the stroke and stance alot more comfortable.

Plus these players usually have the right eye in the proper position in the preshot naturally.
 
Banks, Some more info for you. I shoot Olypic style 3 position small bore rifle(basicly use a frankenstein 22lr rifle and shoot at tiny targets at 50 meters). One of the first things coaches stress is head position. When you're eyes are level so is you're head. The important part especially for shooting standing or pool for that mater is you're ears. The inner ear has I believe the proper term is Cochlea. It is a shell shaped organ that the body uses for balance. When you are trying to shoot without the head being level you're body is fighting to get back to level or upright. This leads to instability and missed shots.

What you are feeling is you're body not fighting to get to level or upright in this case. That is why it feels better. A level head when shooting is important. I can feel it when my head is out of position when I'm down and ready to stroke the cue. Hope this helps some.

Geno I'm all over the cross dominance thing. I shoot right handed because for some reason I can't get a stroke out of my left hand for spit. I am VERY left eye dominant. As before I shoot rifle right handed as well because I can't afford a new left handed rifle (about 4500$ and maybe 1000$ in new accessory equipment, jackets and such). I use a blinder with the rifle and do OK. But I fight with it shooting pool. I look at a cut shot. Check it high and low and in shooting position. And as soon as I hit the cue ball I know it's a miss. And I'm off by 1/2 to 2 inches. Drives me batty. I'm gonna try a blinder one of these days for grins and giggles.

But Geno I'm fighting. The longer the shot and steeper the angle the worse it is. I shoot better on a 9 footer than a bar box. Because the angles are less severe. I would love an answer to my delema. To get the left eye over the cue won't happen due to flexability problems and arthritis in my neck. Closing the left eye helps some but then I can't see the shot very well due to muscles in my face distorting the left eye position behind my spectacles. If I can find a cure for this problem my game will explode.

But for now I'm still searching for my own solution to my physical limitations and eye dominance issues.

Mark Shuman
 
I'll help you.............

phread59 said:
Banks, Some more info for you. I shoot Olypic style 3 position small bore rifle(basicly use a frankenstein 22lr rifle and shoot at tiny targets at 50 meters). One of the first things coaches stress is head position. When you're eyes are level so is you're head. The important part especially for shooting standing or pool for that mater is you're ears. The inner ear has I believe the proper term is Cochlea. It is a shell shaped organ that the body uses for balance. When you are trying to shoot without the head being level you're body is fighting to get back to level or upright. This leads to instability and missed shots.

What you are feeling is you're body not fighting to get to level or upright in this case. That is why it feels better. A level head when shooting is important. I can feel it when my head is out of position when I'm down and ready to stroke the cue. Hope this helps some.

Geno I'm all over the cross dominance thing. I shoot right handed because for some reason I can't get a stroke out of my left hand for spit. I am VERY left eye dominant. As before I shoot rifle right handed as well because I can't afford a new left handed rifle (about 4500$ and maybe 1000$ in new accessory equipment, jackets and such). I use a blinder with the rifle and do OK. But I fight with it shooting pool. I look at a cut shot. Check it high and low and in shooting position. And as soon as I hit the cue ball I know it's a miss. And I'm off by 1/2 to 2 inches. Drives me batty. I'm gonna try a blinder one of these days for grins and giggles.

But Geno I'm fighting. The longer the shot and steeper the angle the worse it is. I shoot better on a 9 footer than a bar box. Because the angles are less severe. I would love an answer to my delema. To get the left eye over the cue won't happen due to flexability problems and arthritis in my neck. Closing the left eye helps some but then I can't see the shot very well due to muscles in my face distorting the left eye position behind my spectacles. If I can find a cure for this problem my game will explode.

But for now I'm still searching for my own solution to my physical limitations and eye dominance issues.

Mark Shuman
Click to expand...

Hi there Mark,

I'll give you a hand. You are stuck with however you are. Right or left eye dominant, you just have to learn to work with how your eyes are wired to your brain.

We are all different but at the same time we are all the same.

What I teach is not rocket science but actually pretty simple if someone has the ability to listen first and then learn.

Make sure when you call that you are at a pool table. If your there now give me a call. We could do it right now.

I've caused 100's of explosions already. Get ready................

Talk to you soon Geno.........
I'm pretty confident I can help you. 715-563-8712
 
phread59 said:
Banks, Some more info for you. I shoot Olypic style 3 position small bore rifle(basicly use a frankenstein 22lr rifle and shoot at tiny targets at 50 meters). One of the first things coaches stress is head position. When you're eyes are level so is you're head. The important part especially for shooting standing or pool for that mater is you're ears. The inner ear has I believe the proper term is Cochlea. It is a shell shaped organ that the body uses for balance. When you are trying to shoot without the head being level you're body is fighting to get back to level or upright. This leads to instability and missed shots.

What you are feeling is you're body not fighting to get to level or upright in this case. That is why it feels better. A level head when shooting is important. I can feel it when my head is out of position when I'm down and ready to stroke the cue. Hope this helps some.
Click to expand...

I'm going to give it a try and see. That would explain quite a bit, about the body wanting to correct itself. And I don't think I have quite the 'jumping' problem when my eyes are leveled.
 
Give me a call............

Banks said:
I'm going to give it a try and see. That would explain quite a bit, about the body wanting to correct itself. And I don't think I have quite the 'jumping' problem when my eyes are leveled.
Click to expand...

I just got off the phone with Arkansas kingpin. I ran him through the Perfect Aim program and got him making the shots and seeing them better than ever so he said.

I can't wait for his reply in a few says but he might post on here before then.

He was told he was right eye dominant when he gets down on the cue he is absolutely left eye dominant.

Once he knew this the balls started going in the hole on just about every shot. He couldn't wait to get me off the phone so he could practice his new found discovery.

I could tell he has a real passion for the game just like most of us.

I asked him how valuable what he had learned was already.

His answer was priceless.

The results are almost instant. Can't wait to hear what he has to say in a few days.

Amazing how even 30 minutes on the phone can change the way you aim forever...........
 
This was one of the things that i had talked to you about when when i had called and talk to you one night glad to c that you keep getting more and more info for the weird one's like me.
 
We are all learning...........

schlangen27 said:
This was one of the things that i had talked to you about when when i had called and talk to you one night glad to c that you keep getting more and more info for the weird one's like me.
Click to expand...

How ya doin,

hope well. We are all learning all the time. Just when we might think we know most everything we pick up something else.

I'm always trying to learn for myself. I want to play as well as I can.

Glad to be in a position to help as many players as I can learn that things that have helped myself and so many others.

Let me know how the game is going sometime.

Thanks again geno...........
 
genomachino said:
You must have put alot of thought into this.

You are dead wrong and I can even prove it and have over 100's of lessons where I had to find everyones dominant eye to help them see the shots better and increase their pocketing ability.

I've seen this with about every opposite eyed lesson I have given.

In fact, I think I even helped you find your pool shooting dominant eye on my way through St Louis a while back. I think you said you found out which eye was slightly dominant. I don't remember which one.

Knowing what eye is dominant doesn't do you any good unless you know how to use it.

When you shoot to the right your right eye shoots the shot. When you shoot to the left your left eye shoots the shot.

Your dominant eye and your nondominant eyes shoot totally different.

Again, if you don't know what to do with it knowing the dominant eye will never help you.

Never is a long time of not knowing.

have a great day geno............
Click to expand...


Well, yeah, I have thought a lot about this.

So I went to get my yearly eye exam early this year. I've been going to the same optometrist (you know, a guy who actually has a degree on stuff about how you see ;-) for many years now. I've been wearing glasses since the third grade and this guy is the best eye doc I've ever been too. For the last ten years or so, he's been correcting a set of contact lens for me, specifically for pool. He was willing to work with me, let me try out various lens, until we got a pair that was just right. What he's done is corrected my vision for the three to ten foot range and it is great. I see the balls in HD.

So anyway I asked him if he could tell which of my eyes was dominant and he tells me (you got it wrong BTW so, no, you didn't "help" me with squadoosh) and then I asked if he felt if it would be important for me to shoot favoring one eye or the other and he said no, he didn't think so -- that that wasn't the way eyes worked. What was more important was to give your eyes the same view each time so your brain had a constant reference point

My own "view" is that the mechanics of your stroke are far more important than actually seeing the ball, favoring one eye or the the other. As has been previously said: it is more important to give yourself a consistent view. (After all, who among us has not done the setup, close your eyes, and shoot experiment?) If my optimal stroke puts the cue under my not dominant eye, but it allows me to accurately put the ball in the pocket, gives me good speed control with the cue ball, why wouldn't that be more important than just about anything else? It is, IMO, the set up that allows precise delivery of the cue, that should be your default setting, dominant eye be dammed.

Having said all that, I know you're not going to give up selling what you're selling, so I'm not interested in an endless exchange over this (I have the CTErs for that :-) People will believe whom they choose to believe.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
Well, yeah, I have thought a lot about this.

So I went to get my yearly eye exam early this year. I've been going to the same optometrist (you know, a guy who actually has a degree on stuff about how you see ;-) for many years now. I've been wearing glasses since the third grade and this guy is the best eye doc I've ever been too. For the last ten years or so, he's been correcting a set of contact lens for me, specifically for pool. He was willing to work with me, let me try out various lens, until we got a pair that was just right. What he's done is corrected my vision for the three to ten foot range and it is great. I see the balls in HD.

So anyway I asked him if he could tell which of my eyes was dominant and he tells me (you got it wrong BTW so, no, you didn't "help" me with squadoosh) and then I asked if he felt if it would be important for me to shoot favoring one eye or the other and he said no, he didn't think so -- that that wasn't the way eyes worked. What was more important was to give your eyes the same view each time so your brain had a constant reference point

My own "view" is that the mechanics of your stroke are far more important than actually seeing the ball, favoring one eye or the the other. As as been previously said: it is more important to give yourself a consistent view. (After all, who among us has not done the setup, close your eyes, and shoot experiment?) If my optimal stroke puts the cue under my not dominant eye, but it allows me to accurately put the ball in the pocket, gives me good speed control with the cue ball, why wouldn't that be more important than just about anything else? It is, IMO, the set up that allows precise delivery of the cue, that should be your default setting, dominant eye be dammed.

Having said all that, I know you're not going to give up selling what you're selling, so I'm not interested in an endless exchange over this (I have the CTErs for that :-) People will believe whom they choose to believe.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

First of all - Gene wasn't selling anything in his post. He was merely posting information he thought was helpful and offered to help people if they needed it.

Your blanket post might very well hold true for you, but it definitely doesn't hold true for everyone out there. All of these "matter of fact" posts about seeing with your vision's center are horseshit for me (personally) because I've wasted years missing balls without knowing why. Aligning with the center of my vision and then stepping into the shot only equated to me never hitting center ball and missing shots (as well as last second corrections because of the illusion).

I happen to be a strong dominant right eye guy who happens to be cross-dominant while playing - due to my head position/technique. Everything Gene said in his post is 100% true (I made that adjustment long before he made that post).

Degree or not, your optometrist didn't think his answer through at all. How your eyes see at a distance with a strong dominant (and even cross dom on top of it) eye up high at a distance is NOT the same picture / perspective as when you're close-up to the CB. He's not understanding how that affects your perception of center ball. What if your non-dominant eye (like what I have) is forced into a dominant position? your dominant eye forces it's parallax view into the brain and you miss.

If he thinks it doesn't matter, I'll put a Joe Tucker 3rd on at the end of the cue of someone who has this problem and have them close their opposite eye and see if they can make a ball at all.

Another "know-it-all" post by Lou gone wrong as usual.
 
PocketPoint said:
So you're saying that Gene just made this whole thing up out of thin air? I'm not an expert, and I would lean towards believing an optometrist over a pool player.
Click to expand...


I don't know the origin of Geno's theory. Maybe he saw it in a book on Mosconi :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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