Orcullo vs McGinn Jump Cue Controversy

HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
McGinn puts a jump shaft on his break butt to jump a ball, which he makes. Orcullo objects.

The rule is you have to jump with a "full cue", so they measure the cue and it is full length.

Ref originally says "it is good", but they are still discussing and game is halted.

They then say McGinn is "good" and Orcullo quits, while he is up 6-5 in the game.

Now they are discussing it again and Orcullo says he will continue if they rerack or something.

Easy decision for me, if I was running tournaments.

BAN JUMPING OR YOU USE YOUR SHOOTING CUE THAT YOU ARE PLAYING WITH.
 
Now Orcullo decides to let him rest the shot and McGinn shoots it with his regular break shaft.

He misses the shot but hits the ball and semi-hooks Orcullo on a lucky cue ball roll.

Couple of safes and Orcullo scratches and McGinn wins the game.
 
Now, according to the commentators, the refs determined that McGinn had committed a "foul" by using that cue to jump with, but Dennis "was kind enough to let him re-shoot it".
 
HawaiianEye said:
McGinn puts a jump shaft on his break butt to jump a ball, which he makes. Orcullo objects.

The rule is you have to jump with a "full cue", so they measure the cue and it is full length.

Ref originally says "it is good", but they are still discussing and game is halted.

They then say McGinn is "good" and Orcullo quits, while he is up 6-5 in the game.

Now they are discussing it again and Orcullo says he will continue if they rerack or something.

Easy decision for me, if I was running tournaments.

BAN JUMPING OR YOU USE YOUR SHOOTING CUE THAT YOU ARE PLAYING WITH.
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Agreed.

Sounds like it all worked out in the end though.
 
HawaiianEye said:
Now, according to the commentators, the refs determined that McGinn had committed a "foul" by using that cue to jump with, but Dennis "was kind enough to let him re-shoot it".
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Was the rule that you had to use your playing cue to jump with or just a full length cue? If it's not specified exactly, I don't see how it can be a foul, even if he changed shafts.

This is why I wish they would set a minimum and maximum length and weight on the cues allowed in "official" events. Leagues, pro events, all should follow the same equipment rules, under one major body. You don't see colleges changing basketball size or height of the basket when they go from one school to another to play.
 
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hang-the-9 said:
Was the rule that you had to use your playing cue to jump with or just a full length cue? If it's not specified exactly, I don't see how it can be a foul, even if he changed shafts.
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I didn't catch anything but what the commentators were yapping about.

Sounded like you could jump with a "full length" cue, but maybe they assumed people would use their "full length" break cues with "normal" break shafts on them.

When this shot came up, McGinn went to his bag and put a "different" shaft on the butt. It wasn't the shaft he was using to break with.

When they measured his cue, it was of a length that met the requirement of "full length" cue.

Like I said in my previous post, I think they should outlaw JUMPING with ANY cue.

If they do allow jumping, it should have to be done with the PLAYING cue and shaft that you are using during the game, when the shot came up.
 
As soon as he changed shafts that threw a new factor into the equation about what is legal and what is not. If Dennis did not protest BEFORE McGinn shot then I would rule the shot was good (and warn McGinn not to do this again). If he protested prior to him shooting I would probably tell him he must shoot with the shaft that is on the cue. This situation enters a gray area, subject to interpretation by whoever the TD is at the event. As far as I'm concerned whatever he/she rules is the right call.
 
jay helfert said:
As soon as he changed shafts that threw a new factor into the equation about what is legal and what is not. If Dennis did not protest BEFORE McGinn shot then I would rule the shot was good (and warn McGinn not to do this again). If he protested prior to him shooting I would probably tell him he must shoot with the shaft that is on the cue. This situation enters a gray area, subject to interpretation by whoever the TD is at the event. As far as I'm concerned whatever he/she rules is the right call.
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Dennis didn't say a word when McGinn changed the shaft.

He protested after McGinn made the shot and had PERFECT position on the 4-ball and an open table with no ball obstructions.

Jumping on bar tables should be against the law.
 
HawaiianEye said:
Dennis didn't say a word when McGinn changed the shaft.

He protested after McGinn made the shot and had PERFECT position on the 4-ball and an open table with no ball obstructions.

Jumping on bar tables should be against the law.
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Tournaments for pro players on bar tables should be against the law.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Tournaments for pro players on bar tables should be against the law.
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Funny you should say that. In the Philippines where so many great players come from you can't find a bar table anywhere! Even in the bars (where Pool is just as popular as in bars here), they all have a 9' table. They just make room for it and all the amateur players play their league matches on the bigger table. And no one complains. I've never heard anyone (Foreign or Filipino) ask about getting a 7' table. NEVER!
 
HawaiianEye said:
Dennis didn't say a word when McGinn changed the shaft.

He protested after McGinn made the shot and had PERFECT position on the 4-ball and an open table with no ball obstructions.

Jumping on bar tables should be against the law.
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As great as Dennis is, he sure seems desperate to win by any means necessary too often for my liking. He just seems like a poor sport to me, quite the opposite of Efren.
 
nicksaint26 said:
As great as Dennis is, he sure seems desperate to win by any means necessary too often for my liking. He just seems like a poor sport to me, quite the opposite of Efren.
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Hes the slightly better version of mika.
Dennis is a different breed right there as proven on numerous situation.
He wouldnt have cried if mcgin jumped n fouled or good hit but left the table wide open for him.
 
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