Ortmann-Hall of Fame

[rossaroni]

With Oliver Ortmann's recent win at the World 14.1, does he have a good chance at making it to the Hall of Fame? He has won a few other big tournaments and has been a threat for a long time. If he doesn't win anything else, has he had a Hall of Fame career?

 

[JAM]

I would like to think that players like Allen Hopkins would be considered as a BCA Hall of Famer before Ortmann, and Allen is only one name on top of MANY others who, IMHO, are worthy of induction.

I am not saying that Ortmann is not a great player, but at this juncture, I cannot see what he has accomplished in his career thus far that merits BCA Hall of Fame induction. He still has a whole future ahead of him, but there are many other players who have accomplished much more and as of this date are not in the BCA's Hall of Fame.

I hope this 14.1 win is the beginning of a long winning streak for the European player.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Repeat, Deleted, Computer glitch.

JAM

 

[Jimmy M.]

I'd have to put at least a few people ahead of him (Ronnie Allen, for starters), but 2 US Open Straight-Pool Championships and now 1 World Straight Pool Championship looks pretty damn good on a resume.

 

[JAM]

The Billiards Congress of America has had this Hall of Fame going for quite some time.

Maybe the Europeans should start a Billiards Congress of Europe and create their own Hall of Fame. There are many great players in Europe worthy of inclusion.

JAM

 

[bruin70]

he was the first foreign player to win a 14.1, was he not,,,,maybe the first major foreign pool personality as well? on his soil he is still europe's biggest pool star, i would guess, and being the first accounts for a lot in terms of significance in sport history. he will get in before allen. will he get in before hopkins,,,doesn't matter really as they are both important to the game's history.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Oliver is without a doubt one of the world's best players, but I would pick Souquet for the hall of fame before Ortmann. At the time being I think there are lots of players that are worthier of a HOF induction than Souquet, however.

 

[JAM]

Well, let me be frank about it. Ronnie Allen will never get into the BCA's Hall of Fame because it is an industry-member organization. Ronnie Allen, today in the autumn of his life, is not considered by the industry members as a great pool player, even though those who LIVED during his era realize how great he truly was.

There are MANY American players I think are worthy of inclusion way, way, way ahead of Ortmann. How about Dick "Weenie Beenie" Staton, Cornbread Red, Grady Mathews? Then, if I were to choose a non-American, I don't know how Jose Parica can be forgotten. For the ladies, Jeanette Lee is one of the most recognized players today in the United States. If she doesn't make it in, I would be quite surprised.

JAM

 

[sjm]

I'd say Ortmann is on the fence, but I'm leaning toward "no." His career, though solid, certainly pales by comparison to that of his countryman Ralf Souquet, whose resume includes two BCA Open titles, two Derby City Classic 9-ball titles, the US Open 9-ball title, a first and two seconds at the World Pool Championships, and the US Open 14.1 title.

Guys like Hopkins, Archer and Souquet are well ahead of Ortmann in the line for induction to the BCA Hall of Fame, or at least they ought to be.

 

[DonFelix]

for me and i think for a lot of other germans ortman is ahead of souquet, for me he is far far ahead.
for pool in europe he is already an "oldie" because he has played against all of the top european players of former generations and especially in 14.1 he is the best european player in the last 20 years. also he is one of the few players who have still the great knowledge about 14.1....

 

[rossaroni]

Well, let me be frank about it. Ronnie Allen will never get into the BCA's Hall of Fame because it is an industry-member organization. Ronnie Allen, today in the autumn of his life, is not considered by the industry members as a great pool player, even though those who LIVED during his era realize how great he truly was.

There are MANY American players I think are worthy of inclusion way, way, way ahead of Ortmann. How about Dick "Weenie Beenie" Staton, Cornbread Red, Grady Mathews? Then, if I were to choose a non-American, I don't know how Jose Parica can be forgotten. For the ladies, Jeanette Lee is one of the most recognized players today in the United States. If she doesn't make it in, I would be quite surprised.

JAM

You are right about Ronnie Allen never getting in. He did reinvent one-pocket, but he really didn't play too many tournaments, let alone win many. You are not going to get in the BCA Hall of Fame from known ability or your gambling record. Bill Staton and Cornbread will not get in either. What credentials do they have that the BCA looks at? Grady has a chance, but still not as good as "tournament players." The One Pocket and Banks Hall of Fame is great, because they look at things that the BCA does not. BTW, Parica is probably close to getting in. Most people know he deserves to be in, but he lacks major tournaments. Ortmann has won more majors then Parica, Weenie Beenie, and Ronnie Allen combined.

 

[JAM]

You are right about Ronnie Allen never getting in. He did reinvent one-pocket, but he really didn't play too many tournaments, let alone win many. You are not going to get in the BCA Hall of Fame from known ability or your gambling record.

Funny you should mention that because, in fact, Ronnie Allen has won many pocket billiard tournaments. I am currently working on a biographical collection of stats for American pool players, and Ronnie's accomplishments are many, which occurred before he became known as the famed gambler that he is today.

Bill Staton and Cornbread will not get in either. What credentials do they have that the BCA looks at?

I think they are American legends, again, whose accomplishments are not well known. These two pool icons make up the very fabric of American pool, where the Europeans seem to like to congregate today to compete on American soil. If they are not deserving, it is a shame, but I am not a voting member for the BCA. If I was, they'd get in.

Grady has a chance, but still not as good as "tournament players."

Gimme a break. Not as good as tournament players? How old are you, and how long is your knowledge base? Just because Grady is in his sixties today and may not compete with your beloved Ortmann, he has accomplished more in his career than Ortmann has today. Ortmann, in fact, has a long way to go to catch up with Grady Mathews.

The One Pocket and Banks Hall of Fame is great, because they look at things that the BCA does not.

Yes, they do, the game of one-pocket.

BTW, Parica is probably close to getting in. Most people know he deserves to be in, but he lacks major tournaments.

Now I know you're a little off base. You need to do a little checking, and then maybe get back to me on this thread.

Ortmann has won more majors then Parica, Weenie Beenie, and Ronnie Allen combined.

Doubt it.

JAM

 

[JAM]

Jose Parica

2005 2005 US Open, 2nd place
2004 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Berlin, Connecticut, first place
2004 Brunswick Men's Pro Player Championship, 2nd place
2003 Great Seminole Senior Open, 1st place
2003 Pechauer Nine-ball West Coast Tour, Season Finale, 1st place
2003 Derby City Classic, One-pocket Champion
2003 Derby City Classic, Over-all Bonus Round, 2nd place
2003 US Open, 2nd place
2003 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 2, 1st place
2003 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 4, 1st place
2003 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 5, 2nd place
2003 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Season Finale, 2nd place
2003 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 20, 2nd place
2003 Predator Atlanta Nine-ball Open, 2nd place
2002 Derby City Classic, All-around Champion
2002 Derby City Classic, One-pocket Division, 2nd place
2002 Capital City Classic, One-pocket Champion
2002 Hard Times Summer Jamboree, One-pocket Champion
2002 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 24, 2nd place
2002 Atlanta Pro Open, 2nd place
2002 Senior Masters III, 2nd place
2001 Derby City Classic, Nine-ball Banks Champion
2001 Karabatsos Invitational Tournament, 2nd place
2001 BCA Open Nine-ball Championship, Men's Division
2001 Reno Open, 2nd place
2000 Hard Times Winter Jamboree, Nine-ball Division, 1st place
2000 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 11, 1st place
2000 Joss Northeast Tour Nine-ball, Stop 4, 2nd place
2000 Joss Northeast Nine-ball Tour, Stop 13, 2nd place
1998 8th Annual Andy Mercer Memorial Nine-ball Classic
1997 PBT Legends of Nine-ball, 1st place
1997 Camel Overall Winner
1997 Camel Boston Open, 1st place
1997 Camel South Jersey Open, 1st place
1997 PCA Sharky's Challenge, 1st place
1996 PBT Darafeev Pro 9-Ball Classic, 1st place
1996 Lion's Den Tournament, Las Vegas, NV
1996 Shooter's Open Championships
1995 On Cue Billiards Tournament, La Mesa, CA
1994 Tommy's Billiards Tournament, Mesa, AZ
World Team Championship (Team Philippines)
1992 Philippine Nine-ball Open Championship
1991 Florida State Open
1991 Ohio State Open
1990 Tennessee Bar Table Championship
1990 Florida State Open
1990 Ohio State Open
1990 World Pro Nine-ball Championship (Japan)
1990 Jupiter Open
1989 World Pro Nine-ball Championship (Japan)
1989 International Open 9-Ball
1989 Philippine Nine-ball Open Cahmpionship
1988 Gandy Open
1988 Japan Open
1988 World Pro Tournament
1988 Gandy Open
1986 Great American Open
1986 Clyde Childress Open, Classic Cup V USPPA Pro, first place
1982 Playboy All-around Classic
1980 International Taiwan, All-around Champion
1980 Philippine Nine-ball Open Championship
1979 Japan Open
1978 International Japan, All-around Champion
Philippine Hall of Fame awardee

If I could get a hold of Jose, I could get the COMPLETE listing. This is the only public one available that I could find.

JAM

 

[JAM]

Oliver Ortmann

BTW, I love that name "Oliver." It's one of my favorites!

Here's all I could find that is publicly available. Please add to the list:

2007 World 14.1 Champion
1995 World Nine-ball Pool Champion
1997 and 2000 International Challenge of Champions winner
1995 and 2002 Mosconi Cup winning captain
2007 EPBF European Eight-ball Pool Championships

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

The Billiards Congress of America has had this Hall of Fame going for quite some time.

Maybe the Europeans should start a Billiards Congress of Europe and create their own Hall of Fame. There are many great players in Europe worthy of inclusion.

JAM

One hall for us and one for "them"? I don't follow the segregational line of thinking at all. I believe we'd do ourselves a great disservice by following through on that one.

The BCA Hall of Fame's snubbing of great players such as Allen Hopkins and Grady Mathews has been disappointing, however I feel as if Danny Diliberto should be on that list as well. Danny is often overlooked, I'm not sure why. He is a legendary player and personality that deserves to be recognized for his accomplishments.

Oliver Ortmann probably won't get in. Ralf Souquet will.

Ralf is my friend and I know the personal sacrifices he has made to be an international globetrotting pool player. Ralf plays from his heart and he is always the consummate gentleman when he represents our sport. Ralf is loved everywhere he goes, and he is always a favorite whether he wins or loses...

JUST WATCH THIS TO SEE HOW MUCH RALF LOVES POOL AND HOW MUCH POOL LOVES RALF

All of that put aside, I believe that Johnny Archer deserves to be inducted into the HOF before anybody else. Look over the past 18 years... that is definitely a HOF career!

Johnny's Titles

 

[Lou_1]

BTW, I love that name "Oliver." It's one of my favorites!

Here's all I could find that is publicly available. Please add to the list:

2007 World 14.1 Champion
1995 World Nine-ball Pool Champion
1997 and 2000 International Challenge of Champions winner
1995 and 2002 Mosconi Cup winning captain
2007 EPBF European Eight-ball Pool Championships

JAM

You can add this....

41 times German Champion
28 times European Champion
Won 13 Eurotour's

extra: Highest run 326 in straightpool and a 13-pack in 9-ball


Being a European poolplayer I would love to see that guys like Ortmann,Souqet,.. are included in the HOF.

Greetz.

 

[JAM]

You can add this....

41 times German Champion
28 times European Champion
Won 13 Eurotour's

extra: Highest run 326 in straightpool and a 13-pack in 9-ball


Being a European poolplayer I would love to see that guys like Ortmann,Souqet,.. are included in the HOF.

Greetz.

I understand your thoughts.

When it says 41 times German Champion, is there an actual German championship held annually, and if so, what is the name of the event?

I ask because I was wondering if someone who won, say, 41 Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour events would be a similar comparison.

Is the German championship an open event, like the U.S. Open, where the competitors are international in scope?

Inquiring minds want to know!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Hi there,
yes the german championship is held annually, it's not open to everyone..
Only to german players.

However, that's still very very strong, because it's still a strong field (ortmann,souqet,engert,hohmann,and lots of other good players)

28 times european champions is also quite insane...

Greetz.

Thanks for the reply!

I saw a picture a while back of a Billiard Museum which was quite impressive. It was, I think, somewhere in Europe, well preserved, multiple rooms on display with pocket billiard paraphernalia. Is there an organization in Europe which is similar to the Billiard Congress of America in that they recognize European pool champions as they are recognized here in the United States?

If I can find that picture link of the museum, I will post it. It is really cool!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Uh-oh. The timing is off on my post. My post should have appeared after yours, but it didn't, as you can see I quoted you. The forum is experiencing some temporary problems, but at any rate, I am still going to look for that link of the museum. You will like it!

JAM

 

[Lou_1]

Hi there,
yes the german championship is held annually, it's not open to everyone..
Only to german players.

However, that's still very very strong, because it's still a strong field (ortmann,souqet,engert,hohmann,and lots of other good players)

28 times european champions is also quite insane...

Greetz.