Out of country buyers that only wants to use pay pal

[kvinbrwr]

I agree with you wholeheartedly and if I'm the seller of a high end cue I'd be thinking the same thing as well. I'm curious though, how many days before credit card company renders the dispute useless? Also how many days before Paypal pays the money to the seller? Once money's been paid to seller by Paypal does that meant any dispute filed with credit card company is futile? I've always been a buyer and never a seller so I'm just curious.

Anyway whether a buyer or seller everyone just wants to reduce their risk so to each their own and hopefully there'll be lesser scam and bad deals going on AZ.

It doesn't matter that the money is already paid and out of the seller's PayPal account (mine withdraws immediately to answer your question). The seller is contractually obligated to pay PayPal back in the event of a charge back, and PayPal can collect these funds just like any bank that is contractually owed money.

PayPal will allow a charge back dispute for either 45 or 60 days from the date of the transaction, I forget which. The reason I'm not sure of the timing is that its really the buyer's credit card company that counts. If the card issuing bank disputes a payment, PayPal is honoring it, no matter of PayPal's policies. Most credit card banks give their customers 45-60 days from the date of the statement the charge appears in to file a dispute, and that is a very long time to sweat a payment.

Kevin

 

[Jive]

It doesn't matter that the money is already paid and out of the seller's PayPal account (mine withdraws immediately to answer your question). The seller is contractually obligated to pay PayPal back in the event of a charge back, and PayPal can collect these funds just like any bank that is contractually owed money.

PayPal will allow a charge back dispute for either 45 or 60 days from the date of the transaction, I forget which. The reason I'm not sure of the timing is that its really the buyer's credit card company that counts. If the card issuing bank disputes a payment, PayPal is honoring it, no matter of PayPal's policies. Most credit card banks give their customers 45-60 days from the date of the statement the charge appears in to file a dispute, and that is a very long time to sweat a payment.

Kevin

Thanks for the prompt info Kevin.
Anyway I hope to buy a Gina from you someday! And don't worry we'll use bank transfer

 

[kvinbrwr]

Thanks for the prompt info Kevin.
Anyway I hope to buy a Gina from you someday! And don't worry we'll use bank transfer

Jive

I can't wait. I understand a big Gina is quite an item in China.

I guess I've heard of the problems with sending International wires from China, but I've also received some (maybe those guys have US bank connections or something) for very large amounts.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[desi2960]

another reason, i don't

lets say you have a thousand dollar cue, and the out of usa buyer wants for you to say on the invoice its a two hundred dollar cue so they do not have to pay the extra inport fees, why do you have a 200 dollar cue insured for 1k., that looks funny on the inport papers.
too much of a pain in the ass for me !!!!!!!

 

[kvinbrwr]

lets say you have a thousand dollar cue, and the out of usa buyer wants for you to say on the invoice its a two hundred dollar cue so they do not have to pay the extra inport fees, why do you have a 200 dollar cue insured for 1k., that looks funny on the inport papers.
too much of a pain in the ass for me !!!!!!!

That's the point. If you are declaring it light, then you are under insuring the loss. If you are doing this there is risk. No matter who assumes the risk up front, it is ultimately the seller's risk if he accepts PayPal.

Kevin

 

[ctran]

I understand all the risk involved, and would never push seller to do things if he does not want to. And I always draw lines of obligations when do deals. All I ask of seller is accept paypal, pack well and ship express, once he did all that and send me the tracking number, his obligation is fulfilled to me. That's how I trust the seller.

again, I keep my opinion that trust is the foundation of all transaction, either internet based or direct face to face. of course you can always say NO if you don't want, I think in that case overseas buyers would have no problem as they understand the risks well.

believe me, if I could, I am glad to use WU or bank transfer to you guys, I have no problem trusting you reputable sellers. the convenience of Paypal comes with stiff price, Paypal fee is high and they also charge ridiculous foreign exchange rate. I hate them but that's the only way for me, as for some others.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I understand all the risk involved, and would never push seller to do things if he does not want to. And I always draw lines of obligations when do deals. All I ask of seller is accept paypal, pack well and ship express, once he did all that and send me the tracking number, his obligation is fulfilled to me. That's how I trust the seller.

again, I keep my opinion that trust is the foundation of all transaction, either internet based or direct face to face. of course you can always say NO if you don't want, I think in that case overseas buyers would have no problem as they understand the risks well.

believe me, if I could, I am glad to use WU or bank transfer to you guys, I have no problem trusting you reputable sellers. the convenience of Paypal comes with stiff price, Paypal fee is high and they also charge ridiculous foreign exchange rate. I hate them but that's the only way for me, as for some others.

So if International business is all about the trust, why not just send the seller a personal check and expect him to ship once you tell him you will mail the check?

Thanks

Kevin

 

[ctran]

So if International business is all about the trust, why not just send the seller a personal check and expect him to ship once you tell him you will mail the check?

Thanks

Kevin

I have not learned of this option, I will find out more about it and if it is possible for me, I will do it.

 

[holland]

Why not use an escrow service?

 

[ctran]

Why not use an escrow service?

because even if with escrow, overseas buyer will only pay the escrow guy by paypal, and the risks are still there.

 

[cueaddicts]

Why not use an escrow service?

What's an escrow service going to do when it comes to shipping the item, assume the risk of an undervalued overseas shipment, all for a comparatively measly fee?

 

[kvinbrwr]

Why not use an escrow service?

Most won't escrow ivory.

Kevin

 

[kvinbrwr]

What's an escrow service going to do when it comes to shipping the item, assume the risk of an undervalued overseas shipment, all for a comparatively measly fee?

As David Byrne said so well "Stop Making Sense".

Folks looking for legal protections when involved in illegal activities, are crusin for a bruisin. Just like the folks that rail against PayPal for not protecting them in gambling or raffle payments.

Kevin

 

[cueaddicts]

As David Byrne said so well "Stop Making Sense".

Folks looking for legal protections when involved in illegal activities, are crusin for a bruisin. Just like the folks that rail against PayPal for not protecting them in gambling or raffle payments.

Kevin

Broken down into the simplest equation form.....R+F=K

risk of $10k fine + (<$100 fee) = knucklehead idea

 

[ctran]

let me share my story of how my first purchase on AzB went

I was very interested in a sugartree listed by Mr. Mike Gartland here, but I was just a guest, I registered an username but for some reason, It was never activated by the moderators, I could not do anything with it other than searching. Then I found out a Vietnamese member (leminhnam) who also owned a sugartree, I searched for his info and got his email, I asked about how sugartree cues play. but we did not know each other before that. He lives in Ho Chi Minh city and I live in Hanoi.

talking to Nam I saw he and I shared the same passion for pool, and both loved cues. I was positive the cue listed by Mike played well, so I asked him to sell it to my, I said I would pay by paypal. He declined the paypal right away. I said I would use escrow, he also declined. then I tried WU and bank transfer, both were not possible due to Vietnam's foreign exchange control policy.

then Nam contacted Mike and said he would vouch for me, I still did not meet him then. Mike said he would sell the cue to Nam, then I could get it from Nam. Nam was willing, but he said I need to wire him the money first for him to arrange paypal to Mike. I did not hesitate and wire him the money, it was a fortune to me then. and I did not meet Nam then. a week later, Nam said he received the cue and I booked a flight to visit him to pick the cue up. that was when I first met him.

You guys may think I was a fool for what I did, sending money to a stranger and asking him for a favor without any commission. But that is how I believe in, trust. I am not wealthy but money is the last thing I value, and the last thing I am afraid to lose. I value trust more than any amount of money I can rightfully earn in my whole life. and I have been living well by that principle.

I want to repeat that I fully understand the risks and the seller's stance if they dont accept paypal from overseas. But there is always a way.

 

[holland]

What's an escrow service going to do when it comes to shipping the item, assume the risk of an undervalued overseas shipment, all for a comparatively measly fee?

Under insuring is the seller and buyer's problem. Before going to escrow, agreements are made and those agreements are put into action via the middle man. If you under insure, seller assumes the risk. There's no way around it.

The OP was talking about using WU, which offers no buyer protection. WU is used by scammers for fraudulent selling for that exact reason. Paypal is used by fraudulent buyers, taking advantage of their buyer protection.

With escrow, you wire the money to escrow. Seller then ships after confirmation of funding. Escrow confirms tracking of item and receipt of item. If item never makes it, that's the insurance claim, or the seller is out as the terms were not met. If buyer gets item, and after inspection, funds are released. If inspection fails, they must return the item on their own dime, or funds are released.

If you want to under insure, then just send the money directly to the seller and wait, because it's the same risk. As a buyer you may never get the item, or the item may not be as described because it was smashed or trust was misplaced.

It seems logical to me. Don't under insure, unless the buyer doesn't care and will fund the buyer directly before shipping. That's effectively what it translates to, when you want to under insure. As the buyer, you may or may not get what you ordered, when you do that. It seems silly to roll the dice, and be out the entire amount instead of possibly paying a portion for import duties.

Most won't escrow ivory.

Good info.

 

[holland]

because even if with escrow, overseas buyer will only pay the escrow guy by paypal, and the risks are still there.

Not really. It's up to the service to decline Paypal or credit card payments. If they do accept it, then the escrow service assumes the liability. They do not pay the seller by Paypal. The seller will not be out.

 

[cueaddicts]

let me share my story of how my first purchase on AzB went

I was very interested in a sugartree listed by Mr. Mike Gartland here, but I was just a guest, I registered an username but for some reason, It was never activated by the moderators, I could not do anything with it other than searching. Then I found out a Vietnamese member (leminhnam) who also owned a sugartree, I searched for his info and got his email, I asked about how sugartree cues play. but we did not know each other before that. He lives in Ho Chi Minh city and I live in Hanoi.

talking to Nam I saw he and I shared the same passion for pool, and both loved cues. I was positive the cue listed by Mike played well, so I asked him to sell it to my, I said I would pay by paypal. He declined the paypal right away. I said I would use escrow, he also declined. then I tried WU and bank transfer, both were not possible due to Vietnam's foreign exchange control policy.

then Nam contacted Mike and said he would vouch for me, I still did not meet him then. Mike said he would sell the cue to Nam, then I could get it from Nam. Nam was willing, but he said I need to wire him the money first for him to arrange paypal to Mike. I did not hesitate and wire him the money, it was a fortune to me then. and I did not meet Nam then. a week later, Nam said he received the cue and I booked a flight to visit him to pick the cue up. that was when I first met him.

You guys may think I was a fool for what I did, sending money to a stranger and asking him for a favor without any commission. But that is how I believe in, trust. I am not wealthy but money is the last thing I value, and the last thing I am afraid to lose. I value trust more than any amount of money I can rightfully earn in my whole life. and I have been living well by that principle.

That's a pretty amazing story and congratulations things worked out well for you. Sometimes things like these can be worked out when there is a mutually known party that the seller knows and trusts.

Pretty cool to think about the extents that fellow pool lovers around the world will take to acquire quality, handmade cues. Cuemakers should be flattered that their works are prized such throughout the world.

 

[holland]

let me share my story of how my first purchase on AzB went

I was very interested in a sugartree listed by Mr. Mike Gartland here, but I was just a guest, I registered an username but for some reason, It was never activated by the moderators, I could not do anything with it other than searching. Then I found out a Vietnamese member (leminhnam) who also owned a sugartree, I searched for his info and got his email, I asked about how sugartree cues play. but we did not know each other before that. He lives in Ho Chi Minh city and I live in Hanoi.

talking to Nam I saw he and I shared the same passion for pool, and both loved cues. I was positive the cue listed by Mike played well, so I asked him to sell it to my, I said I would pay by paypal. He declined the paypal right away. I said I would use escrow, he also declined. then I tried WU and bank transfer, both were not possible due to Vietnam's foreign exchange control policy.

then Nam contacted Mike and said he would vouch for me, I still did not meet him then. Mike said he would sell the cue to Nam, then I could get it from Nam. Nam was willing, but he said I need to wire him the money first for him to arrange paypal to Mike. I did not hesitate and wire him the money, it was a fortune to me then. and I did not meet Nam then. a week later, Nam said he received the cue and I booked a flight to visit him to pick the cue up. that was when I first met him.

You guys may think I was a fool for what I did, sending money to a stranger and asking him for a favor without any commission. But that is how I believe in, trust. I am not wealthy but money is the last thing I value, and the last thing I am afraid to lose. I value trust more than any amount of money I can rightfully earn in my whole life. and I have been living well by that principle.

I want to repeat that I fully understand the risks and the seller's stance if they dont accept paypal from overseas. But there is always a way.

That's a good story. There's usually more good folk than bad, but it usually only takes 1 bad seed to ruin it for everyone.

 

[ctran]

Not really. It's up to the service to decline Paypal or credit card payments. If they do accept it, then the escrow service assumes the liability. They do not pay the seller by Paypal. The seller will not be out.

I believe the risk lies at overseas paypal, and then overseas paypal involved, no matter at what point of the transaction, the risk is still there and even the escrow guy would not be willing to take it.

That's a pretty amazing story and congratulations things worked out well for you. Sometimes things like these can be worked out when there is a mutually known party that the seller knows and trusts.

Pretty cool to think about the extents that fellow pool lovers around the world will take to acquire quality, handmade cues. Cuemakers should be flattered that their works are prized such throughout the world.

Thanks, and yes, where there's a will, there's a way. you are correct about the extent cue lovers can take, and also, if people share the same passion, it feels like they were acquaintances for all their lives. I bet you guys have experienced the same.