Out of country buyers that only wants to use pay pal

[kvinbrwr]

If you under insure, seller assumes the risk. There's no way around it.

This is simply not true. I do it all the time, and seeing it is at my buyer's requests, I assume zero responsibility and only accept payments in such a way to insure it stays that way.

You really can't insure a cue shipped into most Countries for 5K and upward, even if your buyer was willing to pay the duties (which they are not ever). You are just begging customs to open the package and call anything they see as "ivory" (and probably be right at that price).

I'm not saying don't do it. I do it quite often. I'm saying there is no way that is safe for everyone. If you are going to do it with me, you as a buyer assume all the risk and pay me in a non-reversible fashion. Don't want to do it that way? I completely understand, I wouldn't buy that way either. Then again, my profit margins are very small, which I understand may not be the case with some foreign cue dealers.

Even though I'm not at risk, I still sweat the delivery like crazy. Luckily, thus far, no problems.

I ship Internationally USPS Express Mail, insured and declared as "used pool cue" for $100.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[holland]

I believe the risk lies at overseas paypal, and then overseas paypal involved, no matter at what point of the transaction, the risk is still there and even the escrow guy would not be willing to take it.

Yep, usually.

But, you're forgetting why people won't use direct wire transfers or "moneygram" services like WU. There is no buyer protection. With a trusted middle man, lawyer or escrow, with legal binding contracts that part is settled. The buyer then has confidence that the wire transfer will actually result in item delivery with some guarantees. The seller will have comfort knowing that the item is delivered and they will get their money. Escrow usually deals only with wire transfer. All the times I've done escrow for houses, it's wire only. The buyer eats the wire and escrow fees. If people can trust escrow for multi million dollar items, a thousand dollars in comparison, should be handled with comfort.

In your case, Nam was acting as the intermediary/escrow. He didn't follow procedures to protect himself, should things go bad. If things did go bad, you can guarantee he would not do that again. You may have trust, but I have also seen trusted sellers take a turn for the worse because they all of a sudden have hit financial problems. I have seen that play out on forums for multi-thousand dollar items more than once (not pool related).

But, as kvinbrwr stated, if legal escrow services don't take some items (like ivory), then it'll never get off the ground.

 

[holland]

This is simply not true. I do it all the time, and seeing it is at my buyer's requests, I assume zero responsibility and only accept payments in such a way to insure it stays that way.

You really can't insure a cue shipped into most Countries for 5K and upward, even if your buyer was willing to pay the duties (which they are not ever). You are just begging customs to open the package and call anything they see as "ivory" (and probably be right at that price).

I'm not saying don't do it. I do it quite often. I'm saying there is no way that is safe for everyone. If you are going to do it with me, you as a buyer assume all the risk and pay me in a non-reversible fashion. Don't want to do it that way? I completely understand, I wouldn't buy that way either. Then again, my profit margins are very small, which I understand may not be the case with some foreign cue dealers.

Even though I'm not at risk, I still sweat the delivery like crazy. Luckily, thus far, no problems.

I ship Internationally USPS Express Mail, insured and declared as "used pool cue" for $100.

Thanks

Kevin

Yes, but I clarified later in the post. The context of the quote was in relation to an agreed upon transaction that is protected to complete. Non-refundable is the only way if you want to under insure, as I stated later in the post.

Curious, why USPS Express instead of companies like FedEx or DHL? I'm not a seller, just a buyer, and usually like FedEx.

Edit: understood about the ivory, I didn't think about the government confiscation part. Good info again.

Under insuring is the seller and buyer's problem. Before going to escrow, agreements are made and those agreements are put into action via the middle man. If you under insure, seller assumes the risk. There's no way around it.

...

If you want to under insure, then just send the money directly to the seller and wait, because it's the same risk. As a buyer you may never get the item, or the item may not be as described because it was smashed or trust was misplaced.

It seems logical to me. Don't under insure, unless the buyer doesn't care and will fund the buyer directly before shipping.

 

[ctran]

Yep, usually.

But, you're forgetting why people won't use direct wire transfers or "moneygram" services like WU. There is no buyer protection. With a trusted middle man, lawyer or escrow, with legal binding contracts that part is settled. The buyer then has confidence that the wire transfer will actually result in item delivery with some guarantees. The seller will have comfort knowing that the item is delivered and they will get their money. Escrow usually deals only with wire transfer. All the times I've done escrow for houses, it's wire only. The buyer eats the wire and escrow fees. If people can trust escrow for multi million dollar items, a thousand dollars in comparison, should be handled with comfort.

In your case, Nam was acting as the intermediary/escrow. He didn't follow procedures to protect himself, should things go bad. If things did go bad, you can guarantee he would not do that again. You may have trust, but I have also seen trusted sellers take a turn for the worse because they all of a sudden have hit financial problems. I have seen that play out on forums for multi-thousand dollar items more than once (not pool related).

But, as kvinbrwr stated, if legal escrow services don't take some items (like ivory), then it'll never get off the ground.

You are correct, if someone sells an escrow service, he should be the one who takes the risk if any, and he is paid for it.

and also about the financial problems, people may act unpredictably with his back to the wall. so that's what we have to do homework about, it's always better if you know the person.

 

[holland]

it's always better if you know the person.

True, as long as they are of good character. I've had relatives try to scam me out of money. Well, not scam, just depend on good faith and being a relative, and trust and, and looking for the absolute best deal (where you take minimal gains, but they don't). I guess knowing well enough, but not too well. Doing business with family does not always end well, and in some cases can fracture ties.

 

[cuesmith]

Probably because W.U.! When ever I'm asked to use WU I see it as a "red flag". It's used commonly by scammers because the funds can be picked up anywhere in the world and as soon as they are there is no way to recover the funds. WU is probably the most expensive way to send money and the advantages of using it are often the same reasons not to. JMHO

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

overseas sales

I really do not want to take certain risks if I dont need to.
This was a brand new member out of country , zero I trader, zero posts ,zero friends and will only do pay pal from a country that also allows western union.

It made me nevous. to many yellow and red flags.
MMike

 

[kvinbrwr]

Yes, but I clarified later in the post. The context of the quote was in relation to an agreed upon transaction that is protected to complete. Non-refundable is the only way if you want to under insure, as I stated later in the post.

Curious, why USPS Express instead of companies like FedEx or DHL? I'm not a seller, just a buyer, and usually like FedEx.

Edit: understood about the ivory, I didn't think about the government confiscation part. Good info again.

Apparently both FedEx and UPS (which have their own customs brokerages) are tougher to pass things through than USPS. Every International buyer I've had has asked me to under declare, under insure and ship USPS Express. I must admit, so far, it has worked like a charm.

Kevin

 

[Jive]

Yes, but I clarified later in the post. The context of the quote was in relation to an agreed upon transaction that is protected to complete. Non-refundable is the only way if you want to under insure, as I stated later in the post.

Curious, why USPS Express instead of companies like FedEx or DHL? I'm not a seller, just a buyer, and usually like FedEx.

Edit: understood about the ivory, I didn't think about the government confiscation part. Good info again.

I've bought quite some cues from the U.S and have used DHL, UPS and Fedex. When i started out i would not even consider USPS...too slow and in my opinion then too risky. The rest of the famed courier's generally cost 100-200% more than USPS but they were trackable all the way and quick. However 8 out of 10 times my goods would be checked by Chinese customs and that delayed 1-3days and 10 out of 10 times i have to pay taxes for them no matter how small an amount i declared.

Once i declared $50 on a cue shipped to me and DHL called me and said the customs claim that the value is too little cos the shipping cost $150....that don't make sense. So they gave me a choice to revalue the item or have the item ship back. Naturally i told them $300 and paid about $50 or so in taxes.

From then on, i value all cues at $100-150 depending on how flashy they look and still had to pay taxes but it gets stuck at customs for a shorter time.
Honestly i don't mind paying the extra $50 since the cues i buy generally cost between $2-5k but it's the thought of the customs opening up the package and if one smart alec realises there's ivory then i'd say bye bye to the cue.

Then i learnt about USPS.....

I think customs have the logic that anything expensive won't be sent by USPS cos no one would wait 10days for an expensive item and ship it uninsured...when USPS arrives into china it's transferred to China Postal which is EMS. 9 out of 10 parcels are untrackable to me once the parcels arrive in China...
However i've never lost a parcel with them (knock on wood) and have never had my cue stuck in customs or paid a single dime in taxes.

So to sum it up...USPS for me. :thumbup:

Oh and about the ivory bit, most countries out of U.S don't have pool cues as red flag for ivory...they see white on cues and they don't think much of it. Only problem you have is with U.S Customs. Once it's leaves the U.S 99% chance you won't get into trouble with the ivory anymore.

 

[Jive]

Jive

I can't wait. I understand a big Gina is quite an item in China.

I guess I've heard of the problems with sending International wires from China, but I've also received some (maybe those guys have US bank connections or something) for very large amounts.

Thanks

Kevin

GINA's are popular in China alright.

It's easier for a local chinese to wire money out of China, but they still have a quota. I'm a foreigner in China so it's a real b*tch. I have my own quota as well but i use it to wire my income out of china and can only do so much. Reason i prefer paypal is cos i use my chinese credit card to make purchases and i can in turn pay for them in China.

 

[timothysoong]

I pay small amount with paypal, but big amounts in WU.

If I were to receive money for a cue I sell, I prefer WU, its more of hassle to withdraw cash out of paypal.

Btw, I'm from Taiwan.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

amount of money

I pay small amount with paypal, but big amounts in WU.

If I were to receive money for a cue I sell, I prefer WU, its more of hassle to withdraw cash out of paypal.

Btw, I'm from Taiwan.

Special orders , the pay pal will clear the account before the item is shipped makes a difference, also the amount,

I trader ratings and how long the person has been a member, you also get feel of the person, in the way they talk, But in the end its always a chance of problems.

I have to go I have work to do or I may not make a dead line.
MMike

 

[timothysoong]

Special orders , the pay pal will clear the account before the item is shipped makes a difference, also the amount,

I trader ratings and how long the person has been a member, you also get feel of the person, in the way they talk, But in the end its always a chance of problems.

I have to go I have work to do or I may not make a dead line.
MMike

lol, did i say something wrong here?

Its could barely withdrew my paypal funds here in Taiwan. I tried withdrewing sometime ago, I have to wait months before I actually get the money.

Tim

 

[perspicaz]

Western Union is really unknown here in Spain, maybe immigrants use it to send money back home but most people have never heard of it at all. That's why I would rather not use it, not very convenient.

I have paid (usually buying from the US) with credit card, paypal or bank wire transfer (rather slow and expensive).

I used to prefer shipping by USPS with as low a declared value as possible, but now it's not the best option since our postal changed customs handlers and now stop everything delaying it for a week or two and they charge as much as a courier in fees.

For that reason now I tend to prefer shipping by UPS or FedEx with low declared value, it will breeze through customs but I will be charged VAT+5% over declared value + fee (30€ or so). Current VAT is 21% in Spain (used to be 16% some years ago). In many cases, buying from the US is still cheaper than buying local, even if I add customs, currency exchange and shipping.

In the end, it's all about trust. I won't buy from someone I don't trust and, sometimes, sellers won't trust me or request too many things like photo id that make me not even bother anymore. Nevertheless, it works pretty good in general with experienced and reputable sellers.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

pay pal funds

lol, did i say something wrong here?

Its could barely withdrew my paypal funds here in Taiwan. I tried withdrewing sometime ago, I have to wait months before I actually get the money.

Tim

NO No you said nothing wrong,
I dont know so far I havent had a problem to that degree,
I rather not have a problem to start off with, If I do have any problems I offer a no
questions asked return policy.
I dont know of any other way to conduct business,
MMike