Overheard from two money players:

av84fun,

are you sure you are saying that sigel ducked allison? And you know that how?

I know differently. I know the facts of the situation. Because I know the facts, I know you don't.

The facts are: the ipt INVITED allison first. The wpba FORBID her to participate when she asked for permission.

The ipt then asked LLJ. She asked the wpba for permission. They forbid her to participate.

LLJ then figured she was towards the end of her career, and the money offered by the ipt was more than she would make the rest of her life with the wpba.

LLJ then RENOUNCED her membership to the wpba and went and played sigel.

When you state something as fact, and it is clearly not so, it detracts from your overall credibility.

BTW, i am quite sure that EVERY male, ranked top 50 in the ipt, would be happy to play alison straight up, race to 100, AND alternating breaks. I'd be willing to stuff 6 figures into the lights. YOU?

rg
 
NYC cue dude said:
.BTW, i am quite sure that EVERY male, ranked top 50 in the ipt, would be happy to play alison straight up, race to 100, AND alternating breaks. I'd be willing to stuff 6 figures into the lights. YOU?rg
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Be careful! You should probably ask for a spot from Allison since the only men who can beat her are in the top 12. :p
 
NYC cue dude said:
av84fun,

are you sure you are saying that sigel ducked allison? And you know that how?

I know differently. I know the facts of the situation. Because I know the facts, I know you don't.

The facts are: the ipt INVITED allison first. The wpba FORBID her to participate when she asked for permission.

The ipt then asked LLJ. She asked the wpba for permission. They forbid her to participate.

LLJ then figured she was towards the end of her career, and the money offered by the ipt was more than she would make the rest of her life with the wpba.

LLJ then RENOUNCED her membership to the wpba and went and played sigel.

When you state something as fact, and it is clearly not so, it detracts from your overall credibility.

BTW, i am quite sure that EVERY male, ranked top 50 in the ipt, would be happy to play alison straight up, race to 100, AND alternating breaks. I'd be willing to stuff 6 figures into the lights. YOU?

rg
Click to expand...

Correct Randy. Allison was definitely contacted first. After some delay, LJ was contacted and she gave a quick affirmative response, when told how much money she was guaranteed.
 
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rossaroni...<<I wouldn't really call 84/86 place proving everyone wrong about the women.>>

Well, that sort of depends upon what "everyone else" thinks. Many here have suggested...in effect...that Allision has no chance against male pros IN GENERAL. That is what I am suggesting is not true and since there are VERY few statistics to rely on then I just pointed to her IPT finishes.

While I agree with you that they don't PROVE anything the fact remains that she finished higher than well over 100 players...quite a few of which were name touring pros.

And thanks (in one of your other responses I think) saying that you thought I might be a level-headed guy. I think I am and I am NOT kidding about my OPINION that Allision can...on any given day...beat any male pro. Maybe she'd have to have a great day and the man have is B game but as I said...on any given day.

In addtion, it is my opinion that she would be a perfectly reasonable bet to beat A LOT of male touring pros more than half the time....IN 9 BALL.

Some other poster was talking about giving her the 6 out against certain players. Unfortunately, it will never happen because she wouldn't have anything to do with it but that is CRAZY weight in an alternate break format. That person just hasn't watched many of her matches. Who cares if it's a man or a woman or a gorilla if her routes and speed control are PERFECT!

By that way, re: the break and run stats you said you found, was that 8 Ball or 9 Ball. The 8 Ball stats are all up on the IPT site. I was talking about 9 Ball. Would you kindly point me to your source?

THANKS!

Jim
 
Can'tEverWin<<<Mike isnt playing that well right now, but ducking? I think he's still the favorite in that match. Allison play's well. Maybe the best female player ever. >>>

Actually, it is well known that he DID duck...not only Allision but every other top ranked female when he chose to do the King of the Hill even against LJJ. Again, and with HUGE respect for LJJ, she is NOW not a top ranked player.

I also think that MS is one of THE greatest of ALL TIME but he just bashes the women incessently. Sure a lot of his hype about being "the guy to beat" on the IPT was good "pre-fight marketing" but in 9 Ball, alternate break (although Alli breaks just about as well as he does these days) I would back Alli...and with the 6/7 spot someone else suggested, she would ROB him. MS has been out of competitive play for too long and has lost quite a few steps.

BTW, how do I know Alli breaks as well as MS now? I "invented" a break measurement system that I call Rate-a-Break and for anyone who wants to measure themselves. Here it is.

First, the theory.

A. You can't make a ball on the break without moving the balls and
B) Based on geometric truth, the greater distance the balls travel, the more likley they are to go in a hole.

With that said, here is what you do.

1. Score 1 point for every ball that drops...obviously.
2. Score an additional point for every ball that passes the centerline of the table...on the thoeory that such balls COULD drop on 4 of the 6 pockets (2 side and two corners at the head end.)
3. Score 1 point for every ball that travels BACK across the centerline...on the theory that they COULD drop in 4 of 6 pockets coming the other way.

If you add up the points the VERY, VERY top breakers...Busta...Thorsten...Santos etc. will score 10-12 points. 9-10 points is a VERY good score for most men. Alli scords 8-9 most of the time and would almost certainly rank right up there with MS.

Finally, here is the FLAW in the system. The PERFECT break may well be making a single ball and squatting the rock in the center of the table. That might score low on the point system while nevertheless being perfect. But the best breakers generally put thunderous breaks on, and do not lay off expecting to make a single ball.

Enjoy.

Jim
 
av84fun said:
Can'tEverWin<<<Mike isnt playing that well right now, but ducking? I think he's still the favorite in that match. Allison play's well. Maybe the best female player ever. >>>

Actually, it is well known that he DID duck...not only Allision but every other top ranked female when he chose to do the King of the Hill even against LJJ. Again, and with HUGE respect for LJJ, she is NOW not a top ranked player.

I also think that MS is one of THE greatest of ALL TIME but he just bashes the women incessently. Sure a lot of his hype about being "the guy to beat" on the IPT was good "pre-fight marketing" but in 9 Ball, alternate break (although Alli breaks just about as well as he does these days) I would back Alli...and with the 6/7 spot someone else suggested, she would ROB him. MS has been out of competitive play for too long and has lost quite a few steps.

BTW, how do I know Alli breaks as well as MS now? I "invented" a break measurement system that I call Rate-a-Break and for anyone who wants to measure themselves. Here it is.

First, the theory.

A. You can't make a ball on the break without moving the balls and
B) Based on geometric truth, the greater distance the balls travel, the more likley they are to go in a hole.

With that said, here is what you do.

1. Score 1 point for every ball that drops...obviously.
2. Score an additional point for every ball that passes the centerline of the table...on the thoeory that such balls COULD drop on 4 of the 6 pockets (2 side and two corners at the head end.)
3. Score 1 point for every ball that travels BACK across the centerline...on the theory that they COULD drop in 4 of 6 pockets coming the other way.

If you add up the points the VERY, VERY top breakers...Busta...Thorsten...Santos etc. will score 10-12 points. 9-10 points is a VERY good score for most men. Alli scords 8-9 most of the time and would almost certainly rank right up there with MS.

Finally, here is the FLAW in the system. The PERFECT break may well be making a single ball and squatting the rock in the center of the table. That might score low on the point system while nevertheless being perfect. But the best breakers generally put thunderous breaks on, and do not lay off expecting to make a single ball.

Enjoy.

Jim
Click to expand...


Jim, I take back what I said about you being level headed!:) Hey, you never answered my question about Cliff giving her the 6 ball and beating her. I've asked you a few times now. Why are you ducking me?:confused: Cliff (not a top nine ball player) DID give her the 6 ball and beat her!

P.S. When your break measure system takes off and makes you rich, remember that I was always nice to you!
 
NYC..."are you sure you are saying that sigel ducked allison? And you know that how?>>

And you know differently how?

So it was NOT ok for her to have played an IPT event against MS but it IS ok for her to play on the entire rest of the IPT tour?? Why...exactly...do you think that is?

<<BTW, i am quite sure that EVERY male, ranked top 50 in the ipt, would be happy to play alison straight up, race to 100, AND alternating breaks. I'd be willing to stuff 6 figures into the lights. YOU?>>

I am talking about 9 Ball not 8 Ball so I don't know why you used the IPT rankings. And by "six figures" do you mean 100 grand? That's what 6 fugures usually means.

But you are talking about guys like Ernesto, Varner, Parica and Feijen...who Allison BEAT in a game she hadly plays...winner breaks. Lucky for you you didn't stuff "6 figures" in the lights for THAT one!!

As I have said, I don't believe that Allison would involve herself with gambling in any way but I'll tell ya what. If there is EVER a match involving her and the kind of male players you are talking about, I'll show up with 5 grand anywhere in the continental U.S.

Here's my e-mail address so you can get in touch with me if you hear it is going to happen.
av84fun@aol.com

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
But you are talking about guys like Ernesto, Varner, Parica and Feijen...who Allison BEAT in a game she hadly plays...winner breaks. Lucky for you you didn't stuff "6 figures" in the lights for THAT one!!Regards,Jim
Click to expand...

I missed it. How bad did Allison beat these guys? Did they play over one day or two. Race to 100 is a long race. I'm sure she deserved every bit of it. Anyone can win a short race, but a race to 100, that is impressive. The better player will almost always win a race to 100, but anyone can win a short race. I apoligize, I've been wrong this whole time AV84FUN. She already played these guys a race to 100 and won. Why are we even debating this then?

P.S. What about Cliff???? ;)
 
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Sorry, I missed that question. But if the post copied below is where you started...Cliff who? Joyner I suppose? NOT A TOP 9 BALL PLAYER??? Are you SERIOUS? He may be more noted for 1 hole play but he is a GREAT 9 Ball player.

I don't know anything about a 9 Ball match between Allision and Joyner so I can't comment on her getting the 6 ball but my GUESS is that if it happened it was for grins...but yes, I would stake Allision against Cliff...but it will never happen for money I would expect.

Re: Rate-a-Rack it is not a product for sale. I just invented it...along with a practice drill called Tag that was featured in an article in Pool and Billiard Magazine BTW...which I also contributed to the community for free.
 
Jay...<<Correct Randy. Allison was definitely contacted first. After some delay, LJ was contacted and she gave a quick affirmative reponse,>>

But what you said does not confirm NY's version. Yes, Allision was contacted first but on what authority can anyone confirm that she was FORBADE by the WPBA to play MS...and then ALLOWED to play him or any other man in later IPT events.

Do you KNOW that? If so, how if I might ask...and whether that did or did not happen, does it make any sense to you?
Regards,
Jim
 
rossaroni...<<I missed it. How bad did Allison beat these guys?>>

C'mon. I was referring to the LAST person on that list...which is proper sentence structure...Feijen who she beat at the first IPT if memory serves...Look it up.

And I DID respond re: Cliff.
 
av84fun said:
rossaroni...<<I missed it. How bad did Allison beat these guys?>>

C'mon. I was referring to the LAST person on that list...which is proper sentence structure...Feijen who she beat at the first IPT if memory serves...Look it up.

And I DID respond re: Cliff.
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You like Allison against Feijen? BTW, I think most people would agree that Cliff is outside your top 12 players. It's been fun chatting with you, but this was a big joke right? I figured it out- You work for the IPT and started this little debate to get everyone's minds off of the IPT and your boss KT! ;)
 
av84fun said:
cuetech...<<6 out or the 6,7, and the last two, depending on the female player. >>

First, it will never happen because AF won't involve herself with gambling. Next Alcano and Orcullo finished 11 and 5 in either Vegas or Reno unless I am mistaken. So for the "dream match" why not Top 50 UPA players like Chamat, Krah, Korsiak, Stalev or Troy Frank for example.
Click to expand...

First you said you would take Allison against any male player in an alternate breaks format, playing even, and now you wouldn't even take Allison against these guys getting the 6 out??? And yes some of the female players gamble, and this offer still stands.
 
av84fun said:
Jay...<<Correct Randy. Allison was definitely contacted first. After some delay, LJ was contacted and she gave a quick affirmative reponse,>>

But what you said does not confirm NY's version. Yes, Allision was contacted first but on what authority can anyone confirm that she was FORBADE by the WPBA to play MS...and then ALLOWED to play him or any other man in later IPT events.

Do you KNOW that? If so, how if I might ask...and whether that did or did not happen, does it make any sense to you?
Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

I didn't say that. Maybe you need to read my post again and not read into it something that is not there.
 
It is my understanding that Allison was asked first but had a prior commitment with the APA that she could not break. The WPBA may have also entered into the decision.

I do know that I spoke to Monica Webb while we were in line for photos at the KOH and the WPBA was discussing participation of their players as we spoke. Some agreement was obviously reached.
 
ross old pal. Do you suffer from ADD?? <<You like Allison against Feijen? >>

READ MY CYBER LIPS...She BEAT Feijen...at the IPT...in an 8 Ball match...a game she has hardly ever played!!

<<I think most people would agree that Cliff is outside your top 12 players.>>

I already accept Cliff as a realistic opponent.

(-:
 
rossaroni said:
Here you go! http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=16671&highlight=cliff+joyner
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OK ross old boy. That ridiculous post gets you into the penalty box.
#1...the post was not FACT just hearsay about some supposed match years ago...and the match never took place.

You made it sound like he had beaten her with the six. False pretenses my may. And by the way, the post states that the match was refused by her backers...but let me give you a clue. SHE HAS NO BACKERS. She NEVER gambles...she does not even use a booking agent for non-tour appearances. That post was totally bogus.

And thank heaven, I have nothing whatsoever to do with the IPT.
Jim
 
av84fun said:
ross old pal. Do you suffer from ADD?? <<You like Allison against Feijen? >>

READ MY CYBER LIPS...She BEAT Feijen...at the IPT...in an 8 Ball match...a game she has hardly ever played!!

<<I think most people would agree that Cliff is outside your top 12 players.>>

I already accept Cliff as a realistic opponent.

(-:
Click to expand...


What does my ADD have to do with liking Feijen against Allison?
Allison vs. Cliff- this shows everyone where you are at! He gave her the six ball and won. How many times do I have to say that.
Why don't you have a poll to see who likes Allison and who likes Feijen in a LONG match?
Hey, by the way, Nita Vita beat Cliff at the recent U.S. Open 1 Pocket. So, according to you, Nick must play better then Cliff. :confused:
 
av84fun said:
OK ross old boy. That ridiculous post gets you into the penalty box.
#1...the post was not FACT just hearsay about some supposed match years ago...and the match never took place.

You made it sound like he had beaten her with the six. False pretenses my may. And by the way, the post states that the match was refused by her backers...but let me give you a clue. SHE HAS NO BACKERS. She NEVER gambles...she does not even use a booking agent for non-tour appearances. That post was totally bogus.

And thank heaven, I have nothing whatsoever to do with the IPT.
Jim
Click to expand...
Deno, is that you??? Wondering where you went!
 
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