Pad between ferrule and tip

manwon said:
I do not really understand:confused: I have seen anyone use a fiber backing on a ferrule unless it was Ivory.

The backing is mainly designed to help insulate the ferrule from shock due to hard hits.

This has been a standard for many cue makers for the last 20 years or more when using an Ivory ferrule. I have never preferred it myself, and I have never had a problem with breaking an Ivory ferrule without the fiber backing either.

In my opinion using a fiber backing with a normal ferrule would make the cue hit hard not softer, either way trying it is the best way to see if you like it.

Have a good day

Manwon
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The pad is softer than the ferrule so it has to make the cue hit softer, right?:confused:
 
dave fingers said:
And you believed this?
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The softer the pad the more deflection is reduced. The softest material we tried during BALL BUSTA J/B Q testing was implant grade silicon. Deflection was reduced by 6.69% if using 1 tip of L or RH spin and the Q ball is travelling between 10.69 and 14.69 mph. The effects of BHE have not been quantified.

Hope this helps:D

Happy New Year
 
Barry Szamboti uses a pad between the tip and the ferrule. They are made up of a super secret material that I am not privy to discuss. He told me he installs them to soften the blow to the ivory ferrule on the shaft.

Barbara~~~Hey ScottR ->Pbbbbthhhhh!!! I'm privy!! I'm privy!! Nyah! Nyah! Nyah!
 
dave fingers said:
And you believed this?
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Well Dave, considering the sources I tend to believe what they say.

Again, you point me out to question what I was told. Tell me, from your vast knowledge banks, why would you consider this to be incorrect?
I will reserve any further comments as I fully trust the cuemakers who have stated that this is the case.
Where did you get your information from?
 
Well I guess I'm old school. I simply don't believe that a very thin fibre pad under the tip is going to reduce deflection. But what do I know? Some people think a "red dot" helps reduce deflection too. :rolleyes:
Its pretty common knowledge that fiber pads are only needed for ferrules that have a higher chance of cracking, as in ivory or cheap ferrule material.
 
Harvywallbanger said:
The pad is softer than the ferrule so it has to make the cue hit softer, right?:confused:
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Partner, some of them are made out of a fiber felt type material, and the other ones (I have installed both) are very very hard almost like phenolic.

Prather sells them in .030 thickness and .062 thickness in bags of 50, and these are very very hard.

The hard ones are what I install the most of, because they are requested by the customer, however, I am having a hard time finding the soft backings.

Have a nice day!!

Manwon
 
dave fingers said:
Well I guess I'm old school. I simply don't believe that a very thin fibre pad under the tip is going to reduce deflection. But what do I know? Some people think a "red dot" helps reduce deflection too. :rolleyes:
Its pretty common knowledge that fiber pads are only needed for ferrules that have a higher chance of cracking, as in ivory or cheap ferrule material.
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Dave,

Not that it matters to you but you are growing into my least favorite poster. Until you make cues that people are raving about you should learn some humility and show some restraint before attacking others opinions on what works for them. I don't use a red dot shaft but have no problem with anyone who does. And guess what, some people may just like them more than any other shaft on the market. Who are you to roll your eyes and tell them they are wrong?

By the way, Joel Hercek uses fiber pads on all his cues. Do you think Joel is old-school or new-school and do you think you know better than Joel?

I offered my opinion and what I was told and got a flip response from you. Have a happy new year and I can say with confidence that I will be avoiding your posts like the plague. I can see where you have been following Varney because you seem to be almost as big of a bull in a china closet.

Koop - can't take anymore of this crap.
 
Pad

Barbara said:
Barry Szamboti uses a pad between the tip and the ferrule. They are made up of a super secret material that I am not privy to discuss. He told me he installs them to soften the blow to the ivory ferrule on the shaft.


Gus S. also used a pad, and he put one on a cue he made for me. Maybe because he knew I played mostly straight pool. Both tips lasted years before I had to change them.

Regards,
Hal
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Pad

14oneman said:
Well, I would'nt exactly consider Ivory a cheap ferrule! :eek: I personally like the hit of a pad, and all my cues have always had them. The ones with Ivory, and the ones with some other material.

I'll admit I am "old school" in most regards, and I play mostly Straight Pool, and I grew up in the "pad" era. ;) So, shoot me! :p
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14oneman,
I will agree with you 100%. I replaced a tip without the pad and later got two very small cracks in the ivory ferrule. After I discovered the cracks I replaced the tip with with a pad. The cracks have not grown in size.

I believe the pad does make the hit softer however that is not bad, espeically if you shoot straight pool.

Regards,
Hal
 
Hal2 said:
14oneman,
I will agree with you 100%. I replaced a tip without the pad and later got two very small cracks in the ivory ferrule. After I discovered the cracks I replaced the tip with with a pad. The cracks have not grown in size.

I believe the pad does make the hit softer however that is not bad, espeically if you shoot straight pool.

Regards,
Hal
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It absolutely does make the hit a bit softer and gentler on the ivory ferrule.

Hey Hal2! Keep that avatar up!! I love that man!!

Barbara
 
dave fingers said:
I'm sorry, I did not mean ivory. I was refering to some mass produced break cues that use a pad because its needed due to cheap ferrule material.
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See, I'm going to let this one go unless you choose to specify this "mass produced break cue"...I hope for your sake that you do not.

With fiber pads, I've heard a dozen reasons for using them and the only one that makes any sense is when you use ivory ferrules with a softer tip, the pad allows the tip to spread and mushroom w/o stretching the ivory, hence preventing cracks.

There are secondary benefits for ivory ferrules, such as when a tip gets really thin it does provide some shock protection. And on ferrule materials that do not require pads, some people like to use them because they look nice, change the hit (somewhat), and you don't have to face off the ferrule for at least a few tip changes.

-Roger
 
My Josey has a thin black fiber pad installed under the Moori tip. The ferrules are whatever the standard ferrule is that Keith uses, and not ivory.

I have now had a fiber pad on both ivory and non-ivory ferrules, and since I prefer using a layered tip...I like them. My tips last what seems like forever, and it looks neat and clean....and the previously mentioned: saves wear and tear on your ferrule from refacing during tip replacements.

Considering how well I have been moving the CB ball around with this Josey cue, I am certainly not going to change the current set-up of tip, pad, and ferrule.

Lisa
 
Sniper is a regular laminated tip and after few hours of play becomes very hard, as hard as moori medium tip and best of all doesn't mushroom. It will 'protect' any ferrule..

Ob-1 uses carbon fiber black pad to protect the laminated wooden ferrule, x-breaker has a black pad as well, not sure how hard or soft.

Pinocchio said:
www.cuestik.com
If you have ivory ferrel an use pad an a soft tip (sniper) it will make your
cue hit like a breaded mushroom. If you use a regular laminated tip (moori)
each layer serves as pad an you should have no problem with ivory ferrel.
If you've got to try one I think Atlas (www.cuestik.com) carries brown an black.
Pinocchio
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I like ridewiththewind's point about the pad helping to protect the ferrule when retipping. My Scruggs has ivory ferrules from Tim and no pads, they seem to have held up over time. Experiment; see what feels good.
 
With my limited experience, on break cues, a pad is used on the Predator BK2, Mezz Power Break, and X breaker. To my best knowledge, the X Breaker was actually the first one who offered a pad among the three above mentioned companies.

Schon, Lambros, Gina, James White, Josey...all use a pad. A pad is not only used on an ivory ferrule.

A pad does a few things, to prevent the ferrule from cracking is one of them. I cannot speak for others, but that is not really the main reason why a pad is used on a X breaker.

We spend a lot of time and money on research, and I am sure the same holds true with Mezz and Predator.

Thank you.

Richard
 
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I also want to point out that whether a material is "inferior/poor quality" or not is not in direct relation to how "hard" it is, or how easy it will break.

One perfect example would be ivory, which is more brittle but also more expensive. Ivorene 3 is not a "poor quality" material, but I have seen my fair share of brokerage. Some expensive materials break easier than cheaper materials, because not all materials were invented for the same purpose.

With regard to whether something will break, you really need to look at the compressive strength but also the modulus of elasticity. Something with a very high compressive strength will still break if it is brittle, which is what the modulus of elasticity reflects.

The microscopic structure of a material is also very important, and how it is treated can affect its properties to a very large extend.

Thank you.

Richard
 
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Try a Champion or triumph tip, ther both have the red fiber pad on them that way you'll only have to buy a few inexpansive tips and not a whole bag. They are both nice tips. Mullers has them in lots of 3
 
buddha162 said:
See, I'm going to let this one go unless you choose to specify this "mass produced break cue"...I hope for your sake that you do not.

With fiber pads, I've heard a dozen reasons for using them and the only one that makes any sense is when you use ivory ferrules with a softer tip, the pad allows the tip to spread and mushroom w/o stretching the ivory, hence preventing cracks.

There are secondary benefits for ivory ferrules, such as when a tip gets really thin it does provide some shock protection. And on ferrule materials that do not require pads, some people like to use them because they look nice, change the hit (somewhat), and you don't have to face off the ferrule for at least a few tip changes.

-Roger
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Finally a post that makes sense. Those reasons are exactly why I use them. If the tip spreads it could crack the ferrule and it's happened to me twice many years ago, none since. I also don't like trimming the ferrule, shorter or diameter, it gets trimmed back to the pad. Sometimes, some cue repair guys get pretty aggressive your ferrule just keeps getting smaller and shorter.

As for feel/hit I don't believe there is any difference. The pad is harder than any tip with exception to phenolic. I don't see how that could soften the hit. I imagine it is a wee bit softer than many ferrules but I seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference. Durometer test?

As for deflection, well I don't know but adding weight goes against the grain on that one. Softer gel like pad may but I know for sure that would change the feel. The idea is to keep the same feel and protect the ferrule. If it is 6% for gel (or whatever the number was), is your stroke error any better?

Everyone believe what they want but I KNOW why I use them.

Rod
 
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