Parabolic taper
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
the simplest explanation i've ever heard to describe the taper is if you look at the neck of an old glass coke bottle you see the neck gradually get thicker, not to sever in most cases, although some cue makers use a slightly altered parabolic, what ever that means.
I use a parabolic taper and to be honest the reason is because my uncle built 3-4 lathes: 1 was for Jerry Franklin and I'm not sure if Jerry ever took possession of the lathe he ordered or I have the 1 that was ment for him, I believe 1 went to Mike Lambros....not 100% on that, but it went to Maryland for sure, and 1 went to Hawaii. I have mine set at 12in, (although I can change anywhere from 4in-20in) what this means for me is after 10in the shaft taper becomes very stiff, first 10 is very gradual and the next 4- in you can really tell the difference.
I use a parabolic taper and to be honest the reason is because my uncle built 3-4 lathes: 1 was for Jerry Franklin and I'm not sure if Jerry ever took possession of the lathe he ordered or I have the 1 that was ment for him, I believe 1 went to Mike Lambros....not 100% on that, but it went to Maryland for sure, and 1 went to Hawaii. I have mine set at 12in, (although I can change anywhere from 4in-20in) what this means for me is after 10in the shaft taper becomes very stiff, first 10 is very gradual and the next 4- in you can really tell the difference.
If you have a 36 inch wood are metal ruler grab the ends and flex it very slightly. Jeff
Hi,
When plotted on an axis the parabolic taper is a series of small arcs (parabolic sub-groups) that join to create an overall arc over a distance. Linear tapers are straighter arranged in or extending along a straight or nearly straight line.
No exact geometry is required but shaft tapers that have parabolic tapers generally have a sweeping arc from the joint to somewhere in the middle of the shaft. Then the taper flattens out to an individual cue maker's design so the player's bridge fingers do not experience such a dramatic change in size over the last 12".
The cues and butts from our shop both have different and distinctive parabolic tapers. I am so happy with the stiff hit we get from this design and our customer feed back, that I will not produce a custom shaft taper for a customer. 13 MM or 12.75 MM only with our taper.
Rick G
When plotted on an axis the parabolic taper is a series of small arcs (parabolic sub-groups) that join to create an overall arc over a distance. Linear tapers are straighter arranged in or extending along a straight or nearly straight line.
No exact geometry is required but shaft tapers that have parabolic tapers generally have a sweeping arc from the joint to somewhere in the middle of the shaft. Then the taper flattens out to an individual cue maker's design so the player's bridge fingers do not experience such a dramatic change in size over the last 12".
The cues and butts from our shop both have different and distinctive parabolic tapers. I am so happy with the stiff hit we get from this design and our customer feed back, that I will not produce a custom shaft taper for a customer. 13 MM or 12.75 MM only with our taper.
Rick G
Apparently a lot of cuemakers didn't make it beyond 4th grade math.
He's the the formula's for a true parabolic curve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabola
I've never seen a pool cue or a pool cue shaft that was a true parabolic curve. I've seen some that where a combination, and maybe some part of it was a true parabola, but never a full length one. But hey, it sure sounds good!!!. Gus and George used compound tapers for their butts. Most cuemakers shafts are made up of about 8 different segments with different straight tapers in each. Just for fun, someone show me a cnc program that will cut a parabolic taper, and I don't mean a lot of little straight lines. And for you taper bar guys, how did you lay it out before you ground it. Bet you connected a bunch of dot's. Ain't no straight in parabolic.
Sorry to be so negative, but I just ran out of coffee and my Doodles haven't arrived yet.
He's the the formula's for a true parabolic curve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabola
I've never seen a pool cue or a pool cue shaft that was a true parabolic curve. I've seen some that where a combination, and maybe some part of it was a true parabola, but never a full length one. But hey, it sure sounds good!!!. Gus and George used compound tapers for their butts. Most cuemakers shafts are made up of about 8 different segments with different straight tapers in each. Just for fun, someone show me a cnc program that will cut a parabolic taper, and I don't mean a lot of little straight lines. And for you taper bar guys, how did you lay it out before you ground it. Bet you connected a bunch of dot's. Ain't no straight in parabolic.
Sorry to be so negative, but I just ran out of coffee and my Doodles haven't arrived yet.
so basically your saying that its impossible to cut a true parabolic curve?
What about a circle? Not that that pertains to cues.
I see where your coming from on a pure math standpoint I believe......
-Grey Ghost-
Ok so they should call it a "parabola" taper then because it lacks a vertex. LOL Get some coffee.
A circle has a constant radius, if you were to think of a parabola as part of a circle, it would have a constantly changing radius. That's the problem.
My post was more of a response to the common trend of making up fancy (but incorrect) terms to try to enhance products. Another great term is zero-deflection. Newton would probably have something to say about that.
Just because a cue or shaft has a supposed parabolic taper, doesn't make in any better than a shaft or cue with a series of straight tapers. Materials, workmanship, and mechanical design make a cue what it is. Hey there are plenty of really good cues out there, that say they have parabolic tapers.
My point is that with a good cue, at least know what you are really talking about. Just by invoking the term parabola doesn't make anything magically better. Off to buy more Coffee!
My post was more of a response to the common trend of making up fancy (but incorrect) terms to try to enhance products. Another great term is zero-deflection. Newton would probably have something to say about that.
Just because a cue or shaft has a supposed parabolic taper, doesn't make in any better than a shaft or cue with a series of straight tapers. Materials, workmanship, and mechanical design make a cue what it is. Hey there are plenty of really good cues out there, that say they have parabolic tapers.
My point is that with a good cue, at least know what you are really talking about. Just by invoking the term parabola doesn't make anything magically better. Off to buy more Coffee!
Agreed. Though I think the originators of the term were not utilizing it as a "fancy term" marketing gimmic. I would tend to believe that the driving idea for the FIRST parabolic tapers was indeed a parabola. Therefore, the builders named it after the design element used to build it. I could be mistaken but I believe Franklin & Kersenbrock were the first to use the term and it's doubtful they did so to make it sound fancy. It would make more sense that they were simply describing it & trusted that folks were educated enough to know what parabolic meant.
That said, I do believe the term has been associated with great cues & therefore is utilized by many others in attempt to validate the quality of the cues they build. Rather than originate a description of their own taper, they piggy-back on already successful descriptions that may likely describe nothing about their taper.
Personally, I describe my taper as a compound conical or compound euro taper, which is very much accurate. It has two distinct conical tapers that meet at a point of 11.5" from the tip. It may sound like a fancy term description but in reality it's the most basic & accurate term for describing the taper shape. I would think the first guys to use the term "parabolic" were using it as the most basic & direct description they could think of. The fancy sound is only a byproduct of an accurate description. And naturally others will piggy back & copy what seems to be successful so they can hopefully tap in to some of that success for themselves.
Here's another one for ya....
( .512 to .850 )
N4 G01 Y0. F20.
N5 X14. Y-.0197
N6 G02 X30. Y-.1691 I-2.8437 J-1161.3056
N7 G00 Y-.5
G00 X0.
N8 M30
From Sheldon.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=932090&postcount=28
I and J's included.
Joey~Wonders what number of angles are the minimum before a butt is considered a compound taper~
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G2 is a clockwise arc command. So this program is for a very shallow(large radius), but constant arc. Not a parabola.
Erik probably said it better than I can, the original guys had to name it something because it was new. But you can be sure they understood what they had, and why it worked.
Again, I'm not out to knock anybody, I just believe an informed billiard community is good for everyone. Including builders.
I always thought DPK invented the term and the taper.
Joey~Thinks those saying they want a stiff taper usually don't know what it is~
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I thinks Joey is right on that remark
Ok, smarty pants, since you seem so offended by the parabolic label, come up with a better one. :grin:
Not that I disagree with you... :wink:
"Constant arc" taper?
Hi,
I don't know what 4th grade class you went to but basic algebra and plane geometry was not introduced until 7th grade in my day.
Yes the term Parabolic taper is a loosely used term in cue making and it tends to be a generalization. I think it is common knowledge that parabolic tapered shafts do not run the full length of the shaft as I stated in my description. My partner is a tool and die engineer and he plotted a true parabolic taper on auto cad (a series of small arcs "parabolic sub-groups" that join to create an overall arc over a distance) and our taper bars were cut on a CNC. The trouble with this system is that the wood shafts have to be sanded and the true geometry will be skewed or quantized as the taper flattens out toward the end of the unit. This is the reason that shaft tapering machines should have vernier control over the lathe speed and travel so that as little sanding as possible can be achieved thus assuring the closest repeatable process control over transferring the taper from the bar to the work piece.
Carczar was asking a general question. Dropping the wikipedia math formulas is not something most people can relate to in a practical sense.
The statement "Apparently a lot of cuemakers didn't make it beyond 4th grade math" is pretty condescending and makes you look like a person who is attacking and not sharing information constructively.
You being sorry about being negative is not consistent with your intentions posted.
Criticism is always more effective when it is delivered in a constructive and respectful manner without the introduction of ego.
Rick G
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