Parallel English - amount of squirt

precisepotting said:
Hi Mikepage,

Many of the players that I communicate with in this forum uses parallel English (or whatever you call it) if they use a LD shaft. They claim that they aimed at their target then parallel shift a little. No need to offset.

I am try to reconcile it with BHE. [...].
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I put little weight on what players--even pro players--claim they do for such subtle things.

Let me give you an example. A few decades ago the instructional books and instructors claimed that to make a ball frozen on the rail, you have to hit the ball and the rail at the same time. This is nearly always wrong.

A good player back then who could drill that shot with inside, outside and anything in between would have claimed to hit the ball and rail at the same time. The problem is when there was a disconnect between what worked and what was supposed to work, the solution was to rewire the perception; they thought what they actually did was what hitting them at the same time must really look like.

The people who claim to use parallel shift or whatever are actually using parallel shift plus other subtle small stuff with all the implicit bias money can buy...
 
mikepage said:
I put little weight on what players--even pro players--claim they do for such subtle things.

Let me give you an example. A few decades ago the instructional books and instructors claimed that to make a ball frozen on the rail, you have to hit the ball and the rail at the same time. This is nearly always wrong.

A good player back then who could drill that shot with inside, outside and anything in between would have claimed to hit the ball and rail at the same time. The problem is when there was a disconnect between what worked and what was supposed to work, the solution was to rewire the perception; they thought what they actually did was what hitting them at the same time must really look like.

The people who claim to use parallel shift or whatever are actually using parallel shift plus other subtle small stuff with all the implicit bias money can buy...
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Is that stuff for sale? The Rosetta Stone of pool?
 
buckets said:
Why?

There are two opposite forces at work, and all that matters is the net offset from the expected path at contact.
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because it obscures the understanding of the individual effects.

If you pay $50 a week for groceries, and your roommate is steeling $40 a week from your sock drawer, do you say your roommate is "effectively" steeling $90 a week? Yes, $90 a week is leaving your possession. But lumping them together obscures what is going on.
 
mikepage said:
because it obscures the understanding of the individual effects.

If you pay $50 a week for groceries, and your roommate is steeling $40 a week from your sock drawer, do you say your roommate is "effectively" steeling $90 a week? Yes, $90 a week is leaving your possession. But lumping them together obscures what is going on.
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buckets said:
It's a synthesis of that understanding.

Once you understand swerve and deflection, it's only natural to combine them into a single variable.
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You can accurately predict and allow for both forces at the same time until the break point occurs when the combined forces start to reduce the angle of the path.

 
buckets said:
It's a synthesis of that understanding.

Once you understand swerve and deflection, it's only natural to combine them into a single variable.
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I find it a pretty unnatural marriage.

If the Temperature outside is 30 degrees F and the wind is 10mph, it is natural and reasonable to speak of an effective temperature of 21 degrees F,the so-called wind-chill temperature. That's because those conditions act in many ways like a windless day of 21 degrees. Your Grande Skinny Mocha Latte cools off in the same amount of time; you die in the same amount of time. Windchill temperature: useful concept

The distance from this 150-yard tree to the green might be 150 yards, but with this rain and headwind, it plays like 175 yards. The effective distance is 175 yards--useful concept.

But a 20-inch pivot point stick elevated 10 degrees doesn't "play like" a 30-inch pivot point stick in any reasonable or useful way. Yes, for a particular shot--particular speed, particular distance to object ball, particular cloth--swerve will change the required aim compensation. But it will change it by a different amount for every shot depending on the values of cloth, speed, and distance.

No synthesis of understanding in any useful way here...
 
It always squirts when I hit it hard with my shaft lol I'm bored had to put my input in on this subject useful or not have a good morning all
 
mikepage said:
I find it a pretty unnatural marriage.

If the Temperature outside is 30 degrees F and the wind is 10mph, it is natural and reasonable to speak of an effective temperature of 21 degrees F,the so-called wind-chill temperature. That's because those conditions act in many ways like a windless day of 21 degrees. Your Grande Skinny Mocha Latte cools off in the same amount of time; you die in the same amount of time. Windchill temperature: useful concept

The distance from this 150-yard tree to the green might be 150 yards, but with this rain and headwind, it plays like 175 yards. The effective distance is 175 yards--useful concept.

But a 20-inch pivot point stick elevated 10 degrees doesn't "play like" a 30-inch pivot point stick in any reasonable or useful way. Yes, for a particular shot--particular speed, particular distance to object ball, particular cloth--swerve will change the required aim compensation. But it will change it by a different amount for every shot depending on the values of cloth, speed, and distance.

No synthesis of understanding in any useful way here...
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I think you're just really misunderstood.

But hey as long as they go into the hole, think whatever you want.
 
Analysis paralysis anyone? If your stroke is dependant on too many variables, I cannot imagine the game being very fun for you. The game is difficult enough without introducing cue pivot points, etc. into the equation. If the computer on your shoulders can't make the adjustments needed to pocket the ball, perhaps you need to change games to yard darts, horse shoes, or shuffleboard.
 
JolietJames said:
Analysis paralysis anyone? If your stroke is dependant on too many variables, I cannot imagine the game being very fun for you. The game is difficult enough without introducing cue pivot points, etc. into the equation. If the computer on your shoulders can't make the adjustments needed to pocket the ball, perhaps you need to change games to yard darts, horse shoes, or shuffleboard.
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For some people analysis is fun. What I found out is that after the analysis I still do what is most comfortable for me and learn to do whatever it takes around that.My favorite pivot is around 12 inches. I know how to adjust.
 
HawaiianEye said:
Watch this video of Willie Mosconi.

When he gets down to shoot, he isn't making any adjustments or using BHE. His cue is offset on the cue ball when his bridge hand is set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ASYPY3QJTs&feature=youtu.be&t=4m15s
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Without even reviewing that particular video, I can tell you there is other video readily available on YouTube showing Mosconi taking BHE practice strokes to extreme points on the cue ball and then BHE strokes to strike the cue ball.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Without even reviewing that particular video, I can tell you there is other video readily available on YouTube showing Mosconi taking BHE practice strokes to extreme points on the cue ball and then BHE strokes to strike the cue ball.
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I thought he hit the ball sideways a bit in the first shot. I don't believe those guys understood it to be called BHE in the days in which Mosconi learned it, they just knew from playing it worked. Also you wont see them do the sideways pivot after getting down. I cant do that either. So I go into the shot ready to hit the cue ball to the side but aim my cue ball where I know I need to.
 
The Conundrum of Inside Spin

Another thing I rarely see mentioned concerning Side Spin is why Inside seems to be different? Do you ever think about it?
 
To me, I think of deflection and swerve as being controllable, like a bowling ball being thrown with a "hook" or "curve".

Once you have figured out the speed and amount of "hook" for that particular speed, you usually are better at hitting the "pocket" on the pins.

The same goes for pool. It takes practice, is never 100% accurate, and is affected by the equipment being used, the table, and the conditions.

I hit inside on the cue ball for the majority of my shots and playing that style it is imperative that you figure it out, or it isn't going to work. When you hit inside, the cue ball deflects outward and then swerves back into line (hopefully) and brings you into the correct contact point on the object ball. If you are shooting a thin cut and hit too far inside and put too much deflection on the cue ball, you have a good chance of missing the object ball completely.

If you are playing outside on the cue ball, you are shooting "fuller" into the object ball and the cue ball then "hooks" outward and "spins" off the contact point when hitting the object ball. In this case, if you shoot a bit too much deflection, you usually will hit too thick on the object ball, but you won't miss it completely.

In bowling there aren't as many variables as there are in pool, but the concept is very similar.
 
JolietJames said:
Analysis paralysis anyone? If your stroke is dependant on too many variables, I cannot imagine the game being very fun for you. The game is difficult enough without introducing cue pivot points, etc. into the equation. If the computer on your shoulders can't make the adjustments needed to pocket the ball, perhaps you need to change games to yard darts, horse shoes, or shuffleboard.
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I agree! Too much thinking, not as much fun! Use your super computer. I find the game is easier when I'm loose and not thinking so much. Someone said in another post that muscle memory is it. Well, for me it's a combination of both. My super computer remembers all the shots I have tried to make. The different angles, distances, objects in the way(other balls). It then automatically compares the current shot with previous shots and outcomes. Based on experience you can anticipate the deflection of the CB, and depending on the speed with which you hit it, will position it for the next OB. This is when muscle memory takes over. Your body gets into it's rhythm. All automatic after awhile. I find that if I set up for the shot on automatic, and take the shot prior to even aiming, I make the shot at least 50% of the time. That's how accurate your supercomputer is when used with muscle memory. Trust yourself. Double check your aim(for me, Ghost Ball it, and compare). Make sure the speed is correct, Simple. Play loose. Play fast. Too much time, too much thinking=too much sitting. IMO.
 
dbgordie said:
I agree! Too much thinking, not as much fun! Use your super computer. I find the game is easier when I'm loose and not thinking so much. [...].
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There is a disconnect here. The people who dissect the different effects and what they depend upon do not necessarily disagree with you on this.

But this forum has many people from all facets of this game.

In some instances you may have cuemakers debating the tensile properties of materials. or casemakers discussing stitching techniques.

You may have league operators and software developers talking about scheduling algorithms

And yes you have certain technical types discussing nuanced effects that add to the physical outcomes we see on the pool table.

That's not the same thing as suggesting you should consider any of these things in the manner they are discussed here when you're bending over the pool table
 
mikepage said:
There is a disconnect here. The people who dissect the different effects and what they depend upon do not necessarily disagree with you on this.

But this forum has many people from all facets of this game.

In some instances you may have cuemakers debating the tensile properties of materials. or casemakers discussing stitching techniques.

You may have league operators and software developers talking about scheduling algorithms

And yes you have certain technical types discussing nuanced effects that add to the physical outcomes we see on the pool table.

That's not the same thing as suggesting you should consider any of these things in the manner they are discussed here when you're bending over the pool table
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Thanks for not just ripping into me. I'm new to playing(1 1/2 years), so I'm not the most knowledgeable about all this technical talk. When I go to a thread to learn about different aspects of the game(to hopefully improve my own), and all it does is confuse me, I can't help but agree that it is too much analysis. It takes repetition(super computer) and practice(muscle memory). That's how I feel, and what I think. But what do I know, I'm nobody.

AKA Noah Buddy
 
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