Pattern advice knowledge. step on in.

[DistinguishedBilliards]

I have been told recently by some Higher skill level players that my patterns in 8 ball could be better, Seems when I get BIH. I will choose my problem balls to get them cleared away but while giving up better patterns to up my percentage. The bigger deal is I just did not even see the pattern they did until they told me what is was. Is there better info out there on understanding this process or is it just keep shooting till you are there?

 

[WobblyStroke]

U can work on ur patterns away from the table to really speed up the process. one free option is to watch some 8b matches and pause after the break or when a player get BIH and try to solve the rack. then watch what the pro does. While a good option, a better one imo is to get Tor Lowry's pattern Puzzles ebook. it is like $25 and includes 100s of patterns with his highest percentage solution on the next page. The pattern puzzles are a really good way to 8mprove ur recognition of patterns and gets u to apply certain concepts he stresses throughout. Best resource Ive seen. If anyome has a better one, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

One common technique is to start with the last ball and work backwards, choosing the likeliest route to each ball, paying special attention to "trouble" balls/situations and dealing with them as early as possible.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

Most of the players I've encountered who wanted to work on their pattern play did not have the basic tools to play patterns. You need to have a bunch of standard position plays mastered. Then it will be much easier to string those together into a runout.

One drill is to set up a position on the table and figure out the best way for you to play it, trying the same position multiple times. Start with only a few balls -- maybe only three -- and work your way up. Don't add a ball until you can get through most 3-ball setups.

If you run into a particular shot -- say a thin cut with outside draw -- that you have trouble with and it's clear you need it in your arsenal, spend separate time to work on just that shot.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Most of the players I've encountered who wanted to work on their pattern play did not have the basic tools to play patterns. You need to have a bunch of standard position plays mastered. Then it will be much easier to string those together into a runout.

One drill is to set up a position on the table and figure out the best way for you to play it, trying the same position multiple times. Start with only a few balls -- maybe only three -- and work your way up. Don't add a ball until you can get through most 3-ball setups.

If you run into a particular shot -- say a thin cut with outside draw -- that you have trouble with and it's clear you need it in your arsenal, spend separate time to work on just that shot.

spot on. this building up of a shot arsenal is also why many put off pattern play too long. They spend a lot of time ironing out fundamentals and almost never bother to solve a rack in its entirety. to them, what's the point of finding a complete run pattern if they cant trust themselves to execute the 7or8 shots? Makes sense, kinda. but it stunts growth as a player imo.

I encourage students to marry the two...
1. Set up a position (perhaps one diagrammed in Tor's puzzle book I mentioned earlier).
2. Find a solution or two and play through them.
3. respot and reshoot shots that trip you up.
4. Check Tor's solution and see if it differs
5. repeat trying his solution.

This way, you work on pattern recognition and build up ur shots in the process. Obv, as Bob suggested, starting with patterns of fewer balls and working your way up is best, as is saving the real problem shots for more extensive drilling at another time. This is a great excercise to identify those.

 

[DistinguishedBilliards]

Thanks for the input. I downloaded Tor's book. I am prob going to livestream my practice on my youtube. If the group is interested in watching and chiming in with help or just general support. Looking to grow myself upward and help those below my level and any I can as I grow forward. I feel I need to put in more time just working on racks and tuning up my stroke and mental game and of course so much more. Thinking of starting with a pass or two at Tor's guide to get started on his easy stuff
then run through some racks.

 

[FranCrimi]

I have been told recently by some Higher skill level players that my patterns in 8 ball could be better, Seems when I get BIH. I will choose my problem balls to get them cleared away but while giving up better patterns to up my percentage. The bigger deal is I just did not even see the pattern they did until they told me what is was. Is there better info out there on understanding this process or is it just keep shooting till you are there?

If everyone took the balls off the table the same way, we'd all be clones. The tricky part about learning pattern play, particularly from another player, is that each player will favor their own strengths. For example, if your strength is ball-pocketing, then you may pay less attention to getting precise position.

So when someone makes a suggestion to you about a pattern you played or could play better, make sure you ask questions and understand their logic, because they are going to be favoring their own strengths.

 

[boogieman]

I'm not an instructor.

Patterns were always a bit of a thorn in my side. It's not that I couldn't play good patterns, it's that my damn head just didn't remember them in an analytical way. I could decide where I want the CB then my subconscious just kind of did it. It worked as perfect as you could ask for (sometimes multiple rail routes that left better players scratching their heads) or it failed miserably. No in between.

It wasn't until I consciously made an effort to not use any kind of side spin that I started to understand position. If you eliminate side spin it simplifies the analytical/thinking part. Stun/stop is tangent line. Follow bends the tangent line forward, draw bends it backwards from the tangent line.

I was just a guy that just jumped all over english when I knew it was a thing. I loved it! Every shot was "inside" or "outside" or "running english" or "hold up english." Never learning how well you could move a ball with no side spin. If you don't know you don't know.

You have to use english/side spin to get position, maybe not every shot but at times you do, especially if you get out of line. This means you have to know it, but in all honesty you can mostly get position with more or less follow or draw. Sometimes you have to put an amazing near miscue limit stroke to the CB but you can get the shape without any side spin.

The trick is to figure out your "pattern" with no side spin. Once you figure that out, ask yourself if applying a little english will help? It's not an easy question. After actually working out through practice the whole not using side spin thing, you will notice your pocketing percentage will skyrocket! So when you think about how to get the CB where you want, you may find yourself just using a bit more follow or draw instead. It does greatly simplify things. But again, you have to know side spin/english because you must master it's usage.

As for patterns, sometimes I'll just work back from the money ball, ie where would the best shape be to shoot it, how do I get there from the 8... all the way back. Sometimes you'll recognize groupings. I have 3 sequential balls near a pocket... oh, that's the corner pocket drill. The 3 sequential balls are on opposite ends of the table... I need to move the CB back and forth like a yo yo rack. There's a nice duck sitting by the side pocket... I can use it to get anywhere on the table, or... I might need to use that as a "fat pocket" to carom a trouble ball into the side.

It's kind of just pattern recognition and a lot of that comes from practice or playing. Doing common drills is a way to program this stuff in. Heck, you can look up pool drills on youtube and pay real close attention to shape while doing the easy versions of the drills. If you're learning patterns you don't have to do hard drills made for pro level players. Do the easier stuff and pay attention.

Following along the pattern puzzle book sounds like a good idea.

 

[BC21]

Think about the fundamentals of playing position: You'd like the cb to enter the position zone for each shot on the wide end, moving toward the ob (relative to the shot line) rather than across the position zone (lateral/sideways to the shot line).

When you look at a layout, look at the position zone for each ob. Pay attention to how the cb should move into each shot, according to the fundamentals of position play. This can make it easier to plot which balls to shoot and where to play them in order to keep in line from shot to shot.

Above all, play the shots you feel comfortable playing, and don't focus on playing perfect position. Simply focus on pocketing the ball and getting the cb moving toward the next shot in the simplest, most straitforward manner possible (no flashy spin or multiple rail moves, unless it's absolutely necessary).

Try grouping shots together in order to divide the runout into segments. Rather than running 8 balls, think of it as running a group of 2, then a group of 3, then 3 more. Here's a video that explains it...

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Try grouping shots together in order to divide the runout into segments. Rather than running 8 balls, think of it as running a group of 2, then a group of 3, then 3 more.

I like focusing on the “current group of 3”, the ball you’re shooting plus the next ball plus the one after that. The third ball tells you what kind of shape you need on the second ball to facilitate getting shape on the third.

pj
chgo

 

[Island Drive]

Pattern play and speed control go hand in hand.
These are the two most important parts of play.
My pattern play choices are steered by the layout.
Trying to simplify cue ball movement.

 

[David in FL]

I like focusing on the “current group of 3”, the ball you’re shooting plus the next ball plus the one after that. The third ball tells you what kind of shape you need on the second ball to facilitate getting shape on the third.

pj
chgo

Exactly.

Too often newer/less skilled players think "getting shape" simply means being able to make that next ball in line.

To show them the difference, I like to work backwards and ask them to show me where they would put the cue ball on that last ball if they had ball in hand.

I then mark that spot and move to the ball prior to that and ask them to do the same. If they had ball in hand on that ball, where would they put it to get to that spot that we marked for the last ball.

And so on, and so on. A three ball BIH ghost is a great drill for that type of thing, adding more balls as they progress.

Once they start thinking in terms of more than simply being able to make the next ball in line, they're on their way to actually stringing more than two or occasionally three balls together. It also helps clarify better patterns when they have to visualize more precisely where they have to go from one ball to another.

 

[FranCrimi]

It's good to study other players, but you will still have to assimilate that information into your own set of skills. You may not be ready for some of it yet, which shouldn't frustrate you because that's part of the fun of the game --- learning new things and improving your skills a little at a time. Some of it may not be favorable to your style of play. Should you learn it anyway? Discard it? Tough choices. In time you'll find the answers as you continue to develop your style.

Here are a few guidelines that may help, regardless of your skill level or style of play:

1.)Assess the table and decide whether or not you want to attempt to win the game this inning.

2.) If yes, then map out a position route that leads you to the game ball. Then as you proceed, if you do not obtain the position you want on a shot, then step back and reassess the situation. If you want to continue to try and win, then remap your position shots. Usually it just means getting back in line for what you already had planned.

3.) If you don't see a way to win this inning, then determine the best way to end your inning that will give you back control of the table right away, so you can continue to advance towards winning. Sometimes that means pocketing a few balls and then playing safe. Other times it may mean a combination strategy of breaking out one of your balls and playing safe at the same time. Or playing a safe shot that forces your opponent to kick in a way that assists you by breaking into some of your balls that have been locked up. But the end result of your choice is to get you back to the table and in control with your opponent advancing as little as possible.

 

[DistinguishedBilliards]

All these examples are solid advice: My progress is improving but is ongoing as well I think sharing some backstory here is also a good idea.

I once already was a solid player In my opinion. I think I even have been apart of this forum before but I cannot recall for sure. I grew up in a very bad place and pool kept me out of trouble unlike my peers. I played alot back then pretty much all I did outside of work. leading up to 06-07 when I played against John schmidt in Pensacola FL. back when he was Mr. 400 and I could hold up but he would often beat me. Then life priorities changed and I stopped playing for well over 10 years. Then one day pool came knocking again and I answered about a year ago. I thought It would be like riding a bike. Got the table set up at my house and found out I was wrong, I also thought give a few months and it will be like a light switch I was wrong again. So I did and started on the path I think I know, start from scratch and put in the work. Not only has pool changed since I stopped and restarted so had I. So I am relearning everything I think I thought I knew, I also found in my area and general pool needs people like me and us to promote it so I am also doing what I can there and sharing my growth where I can to help others while doing so.

Thank you all for being apart of our passion and helping myself and those searching for their path. that's where I am currently and why I am here today.

 

[WobblyStroke]

All these examples are solid advice: My progress is improving but is ongoing as well I think sharing some backstory here is also a good idea.

I once already was a solid player In my opinion. I think I even have been apart of this forum before but I cannot recall for sure. I grew up in a very bad place and pool kept me out of trouble unlike my peers. I played alot back then pretty much all I did outside of work. leading up to 06-07 when I played against John schmidt in Pensacola FL. back when he was Mr. 400 and I could hold up but he would often beat me. Then life priorities changed and I stopped playing for well over 10 years. Then one day pool came knocking again and I answered about a year ago. I thought It would be like riding a bike. Got the table set up at my house and found out I was wrong, I also thought give a few months and it will be like a light switch I was wrong again. So I did and started on the path I think I know, start from scratch and put in the work. Not only has pool changed since I stopped and restarted so had I. So I am relearning everything I think I thought I knew, I also found in my area and general pool needs people like me and us to promote it so I am also doing what I can there and sharing my growth where I can to help others while doing so.

Thank you all for being apart of our passion and helping myself and those searching for their path. that's where I am currently and why I am here today.

Shmidt musta really wanted to keep you on the hook if he just won often and not every single time At my best 20yrs ago, I managed to steal a short set off a pro a few times when tables broke easy and runouts were there to be had. Never did I imagine I could hold up with them. I was an impossibly huge dog in any tactical rack and not a single onlooker would think I could hold my own with those guys, even if I did manage to get a lucky short race win.

I too took 12 years off after a back injury and other passions putting a halt to my pool playing days. You are def right that it is not like riding a bicycle and tbh I never really expect to be the player I was given I used to play every day the amount I now play in a week (and much much less seriously at that). I couldn't see things at the table as I did and I frequently just misaimed shots or failed to adjust for sidespin correctly as I once did effortlessly subconsciously, let alone be able to execute what I did manage to see right with anywhere near the regularity. That said, seeing connected balls and finding efficient runout patterns using solid positional fundamentals never left me. That stuff made it into what psychologists refer to as 'procedural memory'....basically stuff you've done competently so many times that you never forget it. I had to relearn how to shoot and how to see shots at the table and when down, but I could diagram out runouts as well when I got back as before I stopped playing...that never leaves you.

Long story short: No, you never could hold up with John Shmidt ...welcome to the 99.9% of forum members who never could either.
Cool story tho.

 

[DistinguishedBilliards]

Shmidt musta really wanted to keep you on the hook if he just won often and not every single time At my best 20yrs ago, I managed to steal a short set off a pro a few times when tables broke easy and runouts were there to be had. Never did I imagine I could hold up with them. I was an impossibly huge dog in any tactical rack and not a single onlooker would think I could hold my own with those guys, even if I did manage to get a lucky short race win.

I too took 12 years off after a back injury and other passions putting a halt to my pool playing days. You are def right that it is not like riding a bicycle and tbh I never really expect to be the player I was given I used to play every day the amount I now play in a week (and much much less seriously at that). I couldn't see things at the table as I did and I frequently just misaimed shots or failed to adjust for sidespin correctly as I once did effortlessly subconsciously, let alone be able to execute what I did manage to see right with anywhere near the regularity. That said, seeing connected balls and finding efficient runout patterns using solid positional fundamentals never left me. That stuff made it into what psychologists refer to as 'procedural memory'....basically stuff you've done competently so many times that you never forget it. I had to relearn how to shoot and how to see shots at the table and when down, but I could diagram out runouts as well when I got back as before I stopped playing...that never leaves you.

Long story short: No, you never could hold up with John Shmidt
Cool story tho.

I am not going to disagree with you on that regard and I get that we build memories incorrectly in our minds often times. I was just trying to highlight I could play well enough at one time and am working on growing that direction the best I can and appreciate everyone taking their time to give insight and help.

Seemed like 9 ball was the most popular game back then as well, which has fallen to a less popular game now.

 

[WobblyStroke]

I am not going to disagree with you on that regard and I get that we build memories incorrectly in our minds often times. I was just trying to highlight I could play well enough at one time and am working on growing that direction the best I can and appreciate everyone taking their time to give insight and help.

Seemed like 9 ball was the most popular game back then as well, which has fallen to a less popular game now.

"The older I get, the better I was."

Gets us all.

 

[evergruven]

I then mark that spot and move to the ball prior to that and ask them to do the same. If they had ball in hand on that ball, where would they put it to get to that spot that we marked for the last ball.

And so on, and so on. A three ball BIH ghost is a great drill for that type of thing, adding more balls as they progress.

Once they start thinking in terms of more than simply being able to make the next ball in line, they're on their way to actually stringing more than two or occasionally three balls together. It also helps clarify better patterns when they have to visualize more precisely where they have to go from one ball to another.

I thought of this post when I was playing 5-ball ghost tonight. I've been working my way up from 3, but get stuck on 5 about half the time. when I started tonight, I tried putting a break pad where I wanted the cb, and I did that after every shot for the first few games. I played pretty well those games, and in general felt decent, so I lost the pad. I then continued to play pretty well, and I think starting with the pad helped me get in a good frame of mind to play. thanks for the post

edit: happy bday!!

 

[BC21]

I thought of this post when I was playing 5-ball ghost tonight. I've been working my way up from 3, but get stuck on 5 about half the time. when I started tonight, I tried putting a break pad where I wanted the cb, and I did that after every shot for the first few games. I played pretty well those games, and in general felt decent, so I lost the pad. I then continued to play pretty well, and I think starting with the pad helped me get in a good frame of mind to play. thanks for the post

edit: happy bday!!

The pad helped your mind visualize a more precise target area. That's a great way to develop stronger visualization skills.

The better you are at visualizing shots and cb positions, the more successful you'll be when it comes to making those shots and achieving those desired positions.

 

[evergruven]

The pad helped your mind visualize a more precise target area. That's a great way to develop stronger visualization skills.

The better you are at visualizing shots and cb positions, the more successful you'll be when it comes to making those shots and achieving those desired positions.

totally agree. I think it also helped me do a better job of planning ahead, in general
in an actual game, I take my time and am more thoughtful than in practice..trying to improve that