PayPal "Gifts" and other seller requests

Did you know paying as a gift through paypal is a risk to both the buyer and seller?

  • Yes. I never use the gift option to buy goods

    Votes: 38 57.6%

  • Yes and I have no intention of stopping, it's worth the risk to save a couple of bucks

    Votes: 12 18.2%

  • No, I didn't know, but now I'll not use that option in the future

    Votes: 13 19.7%

  • No, but I'll continue taking the risk anyway

    Votes: 3 4.5%
  • Total voters
    66
I had to try it out.....



Seems to have worked, I have some stuff to list, so I'll give it a shot. I wouldn't mind taking the haggle out of a few deals.....
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I had to try it out.....



Seems to have worked, I have some stuff to list, so I'll give it a shot. I wouldn't mind taking the haggle out of a few deals.....
Click to expand...


And there goes FAST_N_LOOSE blazing new trails, going where no man has gone before, boldly testing new waters, and making a better world for the rest of us...:thumbup:



GLWYS :)


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FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I had to try it out.....



Seems to have worked, I have some stuff to list, so I'll give it a shot. I wouldn't mind taking the haggle out of a few deals.....
Click to expand...

Interesting, nice job
(for those viewing, it may take a slight understanding of how to tweak the code, it's not just a straight copy and paste from the code PP gives...make sure you test your results before adding to your thread)
edit: test to make sure it takes you to the page to buy....don't actually log in and buy it LOL

I'd suggest the Buy Now button over the Add To Cart though :thumbup:


 
There's No Problem.....

Look.......I just quoted someone the same arrangement, which by the way was how I identically acquired another item, and in both instances the buyer was quoted the transaction both ways.

When I bought my set of pool balls, I paid for it as a gift rather than pay the extra fee the seller quoted. It was my decision, not the seller's and he gave me the option. When I just quoted the sale of a set of pool balls, I quoted it the very same way.

Sure there's an element of risk but I was willing to assume it. We weren't talking a whole lot of money so I wasn't concerned (under $200) and the seller IMO seemed stand-up kinds guy.

When I quoted the sale, I did the same thing. So why do it at all? I suppose from a seller's perspective, it's the Vance Packard Theory of "Hidden Persuaders"....the subliminal message.....I'm less expensive....pick me. Department stores have done this since the 60's.

Somehow the majority of consumers would still pick the item marked at $4.99 over a similar item marked $5.00. So presenting the sale price of an item without including the actual cost of Paypal to the final, quoted (advertised) price of any Paypal obviously portrays the item more favorably and appealing to prospective buyers.

And by the way, Paypal doesn't give the seller immediate availability of the buyer's remitted funds. All a seller initially receives from Paypal is confirmation of payment sent but the funds aren't available for you to use until Paypal releases them. Paypal insists on getting confirmation from the buyer that the item was in fact received and there aren't any complaints. If the buyer alleges any problems with the item, then the funds are held in abeyance until the dispute is resolved which takes weeks, even months, with endless back & forth communication exchange & documentation sharing with Customer Resolution Center personnel. A big.....royal.....pain in the ass.But in no way whatsoever does the money the buyer sent via Paypal get released to the seller by Paypal until the buyer notifies Paypal the item was received and is satisfactory.

A USPS Postal Money Order would be much more simple for the seller since it's guaranteed instantly available money at the bank. But the buyer has to wait for the seller to get payment before shipping the item so there's delay to the buyer on receiving the item. So Paypal is really of service benefit tot he buyer because once you buy something, you usually want it right away. USPS payment exchange can add 10 days to 2 weeks delay before the buyer gets the item.

And the USPS Money order cost is only $1.25 up to $500 issuance value. That's a lot cheaper than the seller incurring the Paypal fees so there's always two sides to everything.

If I were buying a pool cue or just spending say $500 or more, rest assured I'd only pay thru Paypal as a purchase of goods. But for $200 or heaven forbid even less, shit.....I've lost that much on a bad poker night or in side action at a pool tournament......it's nothing to worry about.

And by the way, did you ever stop to think that Paypal averages more than 7 days use of the money exchanged in the system.....that's interest free money they get to play with in this booming market.....not equities of course but fed funds overnight or jumbo 7-day CD's.........hundreds of millions of dollars........most of e-bay now goes through Paypal exchange.............all interest free.....plus the e-Bay fees collected.....and the seller Paypal fees........what a freakin' racquet.

So yeah, I feel perfectly fine letting the buyer decide how to pay for the item because after all, it's their money, not mine until I get payment which AGAIN....is not immediate with Paypal. Apparently that other person that posted hasn't used Paypal much as a seller versus a buyer.
 
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Bavafongoul,
I don't know if it's because I just woke up 5 minutes ago or what, but most of that post made me dizzy lol

So I'll just respond to the following sections individually

Bavafongoul said:
And by the way, Paypal doesn't give the seller immediate availability of the buyer's remitted funds. All a seller initially receives from Paypal is confirmation of payment sent but the funds aren't available for you to use until Paypal releases them. Paypal insists on getting confirmation from the buyer that the item was in fact received and there aren't any complaints. If the buyer alleges any problems with the item, then the funds are held in abeyance until the dispute is resolved which takes weeks, even months, with endless back & forth communication exchange & documentation sharing with Customer Resolution Center personnel. A big.....royal.....pain in the ass.But in no way whatsoever does the money the buyer sent via Paypal get released to the seller by Paypal until the buyer notifies Paypal the item was received and is satisfactory.
Click to expand...
This is simply not true at all. I can say this with certainty because I've been on both sides of the transaction when money has been withdrawn before finding out there was a problem.
In one case I had sent payment for an item that was never received, the seller told me he would send a refund and strung me along for about a week before I finally just filed a dispute. Paypal agreed to the refund, but I had to continue to wait another couple of weeks because they guy didn't have the funds still in his PP account and the bank account that funds his PP was overdrawn.
In another case I was the seller. Now normally I leave the money in there until the buyer tells me they're satisfied...but in this case I was selling to someone I trusted, so I wasn't worried about it and I scheduled the withdrawl as soon as I shipped the item. As it turned out, that one got damaged in shipping so I had to issue a refund....not a problem, as I didn't spend the money, but it did have to pull back from my bank account.

Don't believe me? Use the button I posted above to send me a dollar. I'll schedule the withdrawal to my bank account today, have it in my account by Friday or Saturday. I'll send you a screenshot of my PP account having a zero balance at least a week before PP would allow you to file a dispute (they will first tell you to wait, I believe it was about a week after the estimated delivery date, to make sure it wasn't just lost in the mail and might show up soon. Then they will tell you to try to contact me to resolve the matter directly. Then if we can't work it out, they'll open a dispute). When you're satisfied that I have withdrawn your payment, and you were never required to tell PP you're happy, then I'll send you your dollar back.
They're a payment service, not an escrow service.

The only part of that statement that was correct is that IF the seller leaves the money sitting in the PP account AND the buyer files a dispute while the money is in there, THEN it will be held during a dispute. If the sellers PP balance is $0, there's nothing for them to hold. At most they can freeze the users account so other transactions can't be made in the interim.


Bavafongoul said:
And by the way, did you ever stop to think that Paypal averages more than 7 days use of the money exchanged in the system.....that's interest free money they get to play with in this booming market.....not equities of course but fed funds overnight or jumbo 7-day CD's.........hundreds of millions of dollars........most of e-bay now goes through Paypal exchange.............all interest free.....plus the e-Bay fees collected.....and the seller Paypal fees........what a freakin' racquet.
Click to expand...
I'm well aware that PP makes good money off the money that people leave sitting in there account......but, why shouldn't they? That's the basis for their entire business model.
Do you tell your bank you're not going to pay the interest on your car loan because they're making boat loads of money investing the money from everyone's savings accounts? :rolleyes:

I'd assume you knew all this when you willingly signed up for the service and agreed to the terms


Bavafongoul said:
Apparently that other person that posted hasn't used Paypal much as a seller versus a buyer.
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Not sure who you're referring to....but I've used it plenty both ways
 
kavik79 said:
Bavafongoul,
I don't know if it's because I just woke up 5 minutes ago or what, but most of that post made me dizzy lol
Click to expand...

Thought it was just me, I was semi-coherent and it made me dizzy too.
Bava is a ****ing monster.
It was like the War & Peace of AZ posting.
Bava gives JB the 7-ball when it comes to long posts.>>:smile:
I couldn't imagine playing Bava a race-to-11 9B
 
kavik79 said:
I'd assume you knew all this when you willingly signed up for the service and agreed to the terms
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I think that is the main point.

People agree, formally, to terms of service, in other words enter into a contractual agreement.....then violate that? Knowingly? Willingly? For profit?


There is a term for that......



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Chopdoc said:
I think that is the main point.

People agree, formally, to terms of service, in other words enter into a contractual agreement.....then violate that? Knowingly? Willingly? For profit?


There is a term for that......
Click to expand...

I call it fraud, but that term tends to get people all riled up lol
 
Bavafongoul said:
....not mine until I get payment which AGAIN....is not immediate with Paypal. Apparently that other person that posted hasn't used Paypal much as a seller versus a buyer.
Click to expand...

I have used paypal on both sides and can say without a doubt that this statement is flat wrong. The money is available as soon as the payment has been processed. In fact with the paypal debit card you can withdraw the cash at an atm and not even have to wait the few days for them to do a transfer.

It always amazes me when people seem upset that a company actually tries to make a profit. Paypal offers a service that is much needed and is very useful. And there is some protection there for the buyers. I just received a refund from a company that would not stand behind the guarantee posted on there website because of paypal.

By sending it as a gift you are stealing from paypal no matter how you try to justify it in your mind. Im not judging, just stating the way it is. I sent a payment as a gift one time, and will not do it again. Funny once you start trying to run your own business how you start to look at things differently.

Im surprised paypal even offers the option to send money as a gift without a charge. A gesture that Im sure will change if enough people continue to try and abuse the system.

Woody
 
woody_968 said:
I have used paypal on both sides and can say without a doubt that this statement is flat wrong. The money is available as soon as the payment has been processed. In fact with the paypal debit card you can withdraw the cash at an atm and not even have to wait the few days for them to do a transfer.
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Just as a heads up......... Not all Paypal accounts make funds available instantly. The type of sale sometimes also delays the funds.

I had a buddy sell parts on Ebay for a rat rod we're working on, and the money from the parts we sold was not available until the buyer actually got the parts and verified they had them. That was the last time we used his account for anything.

There are several different levels of Paypal accounts, and not all are treated the same.
 
fast_n_loose
that may be....but you never know what the other persons account is set up like

mine is just a regular personal account, linked to a checking account and with a credit card on file as a backup. Simple enough setup that anyone could do....and with that I can transfer the money out to my bank as soon as I get it, or I could easily sign up for the debit card like woody mentioned

just saying, it doesn't take anything special for anyone to setup their account to allow instant withdrawls
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
Just as a heads up......... Not all Paypal accounts make funds available instantly. The type of sale sometimes also delays the funds.

I had a buddy sell parts on Ebay for a rat rod we're working on, and the money from the parts we sold was not available until the buyer actually got the parts and verified they had them. That was the last time we used his account for anything.

There are several different levels of Paypal accounts, and not all are treated the same.
Click to expand...

That's for sure true. At a certain dollar amount of business, they cut you a break on fees.

Also, I don't know if it was a function of time or volume, but they no longer hold the disputed amount in my account during a chargeback dispute. I'm now given some time to settle it before they interrupt my account.

The deal with them holding the release of funds until the buyer signals them that the items were received (or 3 days from proof of delivery) is for very new accounts and goes away after just a few transactions.

Some accounts also have a limit on how much money you can withdraw within a given period.

The level of verification you have gone through with PayPal, time with them, and dollar volume all effect how your PayPal account operates.

Kevin
 
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FAST_N_LOOSE said:
There are several different levels of Paypal accounts, and not all are treated the same.
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Very true, and rightly so as not all users present the same risks in transactions.

I have a business Paypal account. The services are excellent and include many options and utilities. I am only now barely scratching the surface as a user but I can say that my revenue stream depends a great deal on Paypal, in fact almost totally.

I have no problem with access to funds etc, the costs are minimal, and the services available at no additional charge are extensive to say the least.

At this point I have a fairly well established reputation with Paypal and have a decent revenue stream going through it. I don't need to contact them....they contact me. I have no problems with availability of funds, speedy transfers, or other such issues. It wasn't like that when I was a "regular/non business" user.




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Chopdoc said:
Very true, and rightly so as not all users present the same risks in transactions.

I have a business Paypal account. The services are excellent and include many options and utilities. I am only now barely scratching the surface as a user but I can say that my revenue stream depends a great deal on Paypal, in fact almost totally.

I have no problem with access to funds etc, the costs are minimal, and the services available at no additional charge are extensive to say the least.

At this point I have a fairly well established reputation with Paypal and have a decent revenue stream going through it. I don't need to contact them....they contact me. I have no problems with availability of funds, speedy transfers, or other such issues. It wasn't like that when I was a "regular/non business" user.




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Right, I feel the same way. I've had merchant processing accounts and PayPal is actually a better deal (more cost effective and more reactive and protective) than any of the other merchant bank accounts I've had. I dumped my terminal and now process all credit card transactions through them.

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
The level of verification you have gone through with PayPal,

Kevin
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This one is key. I had the 500 limit on my account, took one quick verification to remove it.

Paypal is very easy to work with and is a major part of todays online world. With all they have to offer the fees are very reasonable.

Im sure there are plenty of horror stories out there, and anytime you have sums of money stored in an online account you can always be at risk of a dispute and moneys being held. But I could not be happier with the service I have received from them and am happy to pay the fees for such a valuable service.
 
kvinbrwr said:
Right, I feel the same way. I've had merchant processing accounts and PayPal is actually a better deal (more cost effective and more reactive and protective) than any of the other merchant bank accounts I've had. I dumped my terminal and now process all credit card transactions through them.

Kevin
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Than you need a better merchant provider. If I had to pay 2.9% on my shop transactions, I wouldn't take credit cards.

This isn't a bash on Paypal, because they allow people to accept CC's without being a business, but as a merchant, your rates should have been much lower.
 
Baloney About Paypal Funds

The only way Paypal releases the funds is after the buyer gets an e-mail from Paypal asking if the item was received. Until the buyer responds, the seller has to wait for release of the funds, or ten business days (approx.)without the buyer responding......which ever comes first. CLARIFICATION: That hold on funds is with e-bay purchases and the sale item/identity is known to exist.

I bought cues this way and sold cues this way....that's how the system works if the transaction goes thru e-bay. If you just circumvent that and send payment direct thru Paypal, unless you had sufficient funds already deposited in you Paypal account to cover the transaction, the seller does not receive instant availability. Why? Here's how the banking system works......Paypal doesn't even know when you initiate payment instructions if your bank account has sufficient funds available to cover the transaction.

Paypal initiates an electronic debit drawn on your DDA at your bank and until the bank honors it with funds release, Paypal doesn't even know if you have enough money in your bank account to cover it. So Paypal only releases money after it's collected. If the sender happens to have collected funds already available in their "Paypal" account, then and only then does the money get sent to the recipient as immediately available. But if e-bay is involved, the funds do get released until the buyer says the item was received.

And keep in mind that the offer of a gift or as a purchase is ultimately decided by the buyer, not the seller. So before assuming the moral high ground on this one, the sellers that make this offer, such as I recently did, are complicit but the buyer is the one that pulls the trigger. If everyone just responded to offers of a gift or purchase always as a purchase, this would be an academic issue......no one would be using the gift option.

Come-on now.....are you naive to think that Paypal would not hold the money a little longer than needed.......do you comprehend the significance between clearing house funds and federal funds (book balances vs collected balances) and its value relationship to selling funds overnite thru the Fed as day loans......just 1-2 days delay on releasing the funds to you nets Paypal huge profits. And please do not talk about morals when it comes to Banking. The long business history of banking is notoriously immoral....doubt me? Ever hear of Andrew Mellon, Rockefeller, even Alexander Hamilton was not without sin and how about even today with Jamie Dimon, CEO, Morgan Chase Bank......Duh? If the buyer wants to pay as a gift, that's their decision.
 
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