Paypal help needed

[GetMeThere]

I let them into my house and I was alone. From now on anyone who enters my home and I don't know, I will have a piece in my back pocket, cocked and loaded!

Jay, it's better simply NOT to let anyone in your house under those kind of circumstances (i.e., unknown buyer you connected with through the classified/internet). It's a COMMON robbery scheme....and having a piece "in your back pocket" might FEEL comforting--but there's no guarantee you're gonna come out ahead in that kind of situation, and once a gun gets involved it gets pretty likely that SOMEBODY is gonna get killed (don't talk to me about gun rights--I'm MR gun rights, I've been shooting for over 50 years...and I once held a guy at gun point who broke into my house).

For a car, it would be better to meet the guy IN THE YARD--in public. If it has to be in the house, have a friend come over (and have the piece, too).

A LOT OF PEOPLE have been robbed (or worse) in those kind of situations. Furthermore, when a guy starts getting older, he starts LOOKING like a good victim--even if he really isn't. If sh** starts to happen, older guys seem to have a tendency to get hurt....

 

[pwd72s]

Damn....I feel for Jay, hope it is resolved.

And for all here & on stream chats who told me I was being a silly old curmudgeon for refusing to sign up with paypal?

PFFFFT!

Paypal is NOT a bank, and as Jay learned, it does NOT offer the protections that a bank does.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Even the guy I talked to on the phone had no explanation when I asked him that same question. I asked him what was the Statute of Limitations on making a claim, and he hemmed and hawed around without giving me a direct answer. I must have reminded him three times that it had been 18 months since this transaction. All he would concede is that it is strange that this happened, and he assured me that he would get to the bottom of it. Was I reassured? NO!

P.S. He told me it could take up to ten days to resolve this problem. I didn't like that at all but I bit my tongue.

PayPal and eBay's dispute time frames are one thing, but clearly this is way beyond those limits. This charge back is also well beyond what time frame a bank extends to its customers to file a dispute (which PayPal would hold you liable for even though it may go beyond their own time frame. If PayPal gets charged back, they will charge you back, that's all automatic). PayPal is on the hook forever for bank initiated charge backs, which this seems to me to be one of. I'm guessing its some type if ID theft or other fraud where the bank is just now seeking to limit their exposure, but it could be a lot of stuff. The credit card issuer took their $$ back from PayPal and PayPal took it back from you. I can guarantee you PayPal is within their rights here and unless they recover first, you will not recover from them. You are either going to be chasing the issuer or more likely the guy you sold the car to. And relying on PayPal (who is not out dime one) to do the chasing for you is the boob's game.

Call me

Kevin

818 317 0207

 

[kvinbrwr]

Damn....I feel for Jay, hope it is resolved.

And as for all here & on stream chats who told me I was being a silly old curmudgeon for refusing to sign up with paypal?

PFFFFT!

Paypal is NOT a bank, and as Jay learned, it does NOT offer the protections that a bank does.

Lots of folks assume they have protection from their bank that they don't have. PayPal operates with basically the same merchant agreements for its customers that any bank credit card processor does. If Jay had a bank provided credit card terminal and had processed this payment through that he would have found his account short $500 today.

Take a cashier's check to your bank. Cash it for cash. 90 days from now your bank finds out that the check is a forgery. What do you think happens? You think your bank is going to "protect" you in this instance?

Kevin

 

[cuejoey]

Good luck JAY....

 

[GetMeThere]

PayPal and eBay's dispute time frames are one thing, but clearly this is way beyond those limits. This charge back is also well beyond what time frame a bank extends to its customers to file a dispute (which PayPal would hold you liable for even though it may go beyond their own time frame. If PayPal gets charged back, they will charge you back, that's all automatic). PayPal is on the hook forever for bank initiated charge backs, which this seems to me to be one of. I'm guessing its some type if ID theft or other fraud where the bank is just now seeking to limit their exposure, but it could be a lot of stuff. The credit card issuer took their $$ back from PayPal and PayPal took it back from you. I can guarantee you PayPal is within their rights here and unless they recover first, you will not recover from them. You are either going to be chasing the issuer or more likely the guy you sold the car to. And relying on PayPal (who is not out dime one) to do the chasing for you is the boob's game.

Call me

Kevin

818 317 0207

That makes sense....except: Wouldn't even PayPal have a "time limitation" with the CC companies or banks it deals with? Afterall, NOBODY wants things to come back to haunt them after a year and a half. PayPal has no real guarantees, because Jay could have long ago closed his account (right? I don't really know or use paypal).

IOW Jay isn't the ONLY one who would have a problem with long, interminable chains of "charge backs" that can go on forever--paypal can get screwed on them too (the way you explain it).

Of course, on either end of these chains are always actual SINGLE HUMANS who WILL take it up the butt: for example, try complaining to your CARD COMPANY 18 months after a problem--and they'll tell you to take a hike. In this case, (the way you explain it) the CC company just took their own sweet time to pull back on a phony charge--because there's no way their CUSTOMER waited 18 months before saying he found a ripoff charge on his card.

 

[JB Cases]

Thank God I save all my records and e-mails. I sold this guy (Ryan Andrew then, Ray Andrew now) an old Volvo for $2,000 on eBay. He sent me a $500 deposit on Paypal, then flew to Los Angeles with his daughter a few days later. I picked him up at the airport and brought him to my house. He paid me the $1,500 balance in cash. I gave him the title and the car and he drove it home to Moab, Utah. He called me then to thank me. He uses the ID "seanandtyler" on eBay.

Good luck trying to talk to someone on Paypal or eBay. Virtually impossible! I did send e-mails to both sites. We'll see what happens.

This guy was a very big man who I didn't know. I guess I'm lucky I wasn't robbed and killed. I let them into my house and I was alone. From now on anyone who enters my home and I don't know, I will have a piece in my back pocket, cocked and loaded! My trust in my fellow man just took a big hit here.

This guy is obviously a scammer, but the fact that Paypal will entertain a fraud like this and withhold the money from my account concerns me. Maybe we have to go back to accepting bank checks or money orders only. And verifying them! Or cash!

This seems like a stupid question but in light of the fact that you have met him have you tried calling him?

I mean it's not out of the realm of possibility that just as you couldn't remember right off the bat what the transaction was then maybe he didn't either when he saw it on his PayPal.

To me on the face of it when you say he bought a car and brought you the money it doesn't sound as if he is deliberately trying to scam you here.

Maybe a phone call to him would resolve it.

 

[pwd72s]

Lots of folks assume they have protection from their bank that they don't have. PayPal operates with basically the same merchant agreements for its customers that any bank credit card processor does. If Jay had a bank provided credit card terminal and had processed this payment through that he would have found his account short $500 today.

Take a cashier's check to your bank. Cash it for cash. 90 days from now your bank finds out that the check is a forgery. What do you think happens? You think your bank is going to "protect" you in this instance?

Kevin

To answer your question...nope, I'd be stuck if I cashed a forged cashier's check...this is known as "collected funds". Bank to bank wire transfer is the way to fly for large transactions. When I sold a collector car to someone in Europe, I set up an account specifically for accepting the wire transfer...I trusted the buyer more than I trusted overseas bank employees. Once the transfer was complete, the money got shifted into my regular account, and the special account was closed. Only then did I turn the car and the title over to a well known automotive shipping company.

Seems to me Jay is likely to end up with a $500 hole in his paypal account.
This is sad, but these days if you lose only $500, it can be considered a cheap lesson?

No paypal for me...if paypal is the only way I can buy, then I don't buy...

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, it's better simply NOT to let anyone in your house under those kind of circumstances (i.e., unknown buyer you connected with through the classified/internet). It's a COMMON robbery scheme....and having a piece "in your back pocket" might FEEL comforting--but there's no guarantee you're gonna come out ahead in that kind of situation, and once a gun gets involved it gets pretty likely that SOMEBODY is gonna get killed (don't talk to me about gun rights--I'm MR gun rights, I've been shooting for over 50 years...and I once held a guy at gun point who broke into my house).

For a car, it would be better to meet the guy IN THE YARD--in public. If it has to be in the house, have a friend come over (and have the piece, too).

A LOT OF PEOPLE have been robbed (or worse) in those kind of situations. Furthermore, when a guy starts getting older, he starts LOOKING like a good victim--even if he really isn't. If sh** starts to happen, older guys seem to have a tendency to get hurt....

Thanks for the good advice. I was thinking the same thing. Just do any deals (like selling cars) right out in the driveway in full view of my neighbors. And maybe still have a friend with me in case we do go into the house. I had a weird experience a few years ago with two guys who came to pick up a Gold Crown I had sold on eBay. They were free lance movers. Two Russian guys (I asked) and they were getting a little too nosy inside my house while dismantling the table. I felt antsy enough to go to my bedroom and arm myself until they finished.

They asked me a few too many questions about who I lived with etc. I felt like they may be considering something a little more sinister. But I kept my eye on them the whole time and had a .38 one second away in the back pocket of my baggy jeans. These were not good guys, I could just feel it. I have a pretty good sixth sense about people, that usually doesn't fail me. Anyway they finish loading up their truck, after I had allowed them to use my floor dolly to move the slate and frame. This last part they did out in my garage.

Now here's the funny or should I say tell-tale part. They said good bye and were about to leave, when I noticed my dolly (I've had it for over 25 years, it's a good one) was missing. I asked them what happened to it and guess what. They opened the back of the truck and there it was. They made a couple of excuses ("Oh, I forgot") but I knew better. I was glad to see them go. I suspect they used their moving gigs to rob more than one person.

By the way, I'm not so old that I'm not proficient with a hand gun. I have taken all my guns to ranges and the desert to fire them on many occasions. I target shoot as well, and within 20 feet I'm VERY accurate. I can hit a three inch bulls eye with one of my pistols from that distance, with only a second to set up. I shoot by feel, kind of like the way I play pool.

I hope I never have to shoot anyone, but it seems like the times have taken a turn for the worse. I've already had one bad experience with a new neighbor (nice girl but living with a bad guy) which I'd rather not discuss on here. He's a pill head and ex-con. He tried to pull a little two bit move on me and I caught him at his game. He didn't like it one bit.

 

[johnqbs]

My system

Hi jay I see you quiet a bit on az, and from what i can tell you are a stand up guy. Sorry about that thing on paypal I to have a paypal account.
I have a system that I use to protect my self much as possible, I will tell
what I do and it may help other people. First i will say I don't have a lot of money but what I have got I work hard for it. I only keep 100.00 to 150.00
in my paypal account, when I think I am going to make a purchase and its
more than I have in my paypal I will transfer what I need from my primary
to paypal after I see the money in paypal I will make that purchase right a way. Yes I do know that paypal has my primary checking account number. I work that the same way only deposit what I need for paypal and tranfer it to paypal the same day. Sure it takes a few days to show up in paypal, so what if i may miss a buy. I feel safer this way, I am sure this is not 100% fool proof. My system has worked fine for Me about three years.
wish You the best. take care, Johnqbs

 

[slyfox]

What is wrong with people today? Everything I have ever heard or seen or been given wind of when it comes to Jay is that he is a stand up guy and a valuable asset to AZ. I would agree STRONGLY. It's always the best guys that get screwed over it seems. I say you give em hell Jay. I have multiple connections in Law Enforcement as I am sure some of the guys on AZ do also. Hope the paypal thing gets resolved. Regardless, get the local PD or FEDs involved. Over the past few years, ID Theft and Fraud Scammers like these guys face alot harsher punishment. Taking from a Good man is something that should not go unpunished. If you need any help getting ahold of someone in law enforcement that can GET this guy PM me and I will start going down the list of guys I know that can help. I know there is plenty of support from the AZ community.... Getting fired up and wanting to quote a line from Boondock Saints now. I wish it was like ancient times where if someone stole, they got a hand chopped off. GET EM JAY!

 

[PocketPoint]

I had a guy file a chargeback on his CC, file a paypal claim, and file an Ebay dispute all for the same transaction.

It was for $1,250.

My CC was charged $1,250 three times, and sent over the limit. Only got one of the charges back, so I refunded the guy $2,500.

 

[jay helfert]

I had a guy file a chargeback on his CC, file a paypal claim, and file an Ebay dispute all for the same transaction.

It was for $1,250.

My CC was charged $1,250 three times, and sent over the limit. Only got one of the charges back, so I refunded the guy $2,500.

Brutal! This guy dinged my account twice but Paypal only took $500 out one time. The money isn't gone yet. It's on a hold of some kind. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[strokerace]

I have NEVER kept any money in my Pay Pal account. It gets transferred directly t my checking accoun as soon as I receive it.

Any issues get reportedto my CC and they take care of it.

I do the same..no more than $100 at anytime..i hooked paypal to my
primary account..then i attached a $600 limited MC to it as back up..
Its the card i make all small purchases with and make phone payments
on it about 3-4 times a month..which posts immediately..
I also have a secondary checking account and a savings account..
most of my bills are on auto pilot monthly through my banks online bill pay..which is about the greatest thing that ever happened since i pay
alot of accounts..all incoming income goes to my 2nd account that no
one has cause i pay no bills from it..i transferr from this account to my
primary bill paying account as needed..here again the transferrs are
immediate...then any excess proceeds goes to my savings acct...and i
draw from that if needed..sounds like a lot of work..but with online
services it really doesn't require all that much..Identity theft is my main
motivation..but it protects with paypal as well..its been a different world out there for some time..one must do what it takes to avoid a loss on anything..mainly scammers..lots of luck to Jay..SA

 

[bboxgrinder]

I hope all works out for you Jay. This is an aye opening scenario for us all. Too bad this had to happen for us to open an eye to realise it. As for the gun goes, I'm all for the right to bare arms but I've always been involved in self defense for many years and pulling guns in volitile situations especially in close quarter circumstances don't always work out like the movies. Real life situations are ummm a bit different to say the least. Good luck to you on this Jay and merry Christams and New year ahead.

 

[maha]

they didnt take your money they are holding it until they can figure out what happened. that is good protection from both sides. if you are in the clear you will get it back. probably anyway.

maybe you should call this guy and ask him what it is all about. or email him as you have his from ebay. you may find he isnt involved or has a problem you may clear up that he feels is justified.

if he is a creep you will find out and can deal with it.


it is good pay pal locks up wherever money they can right away. this gives everyone a better chance of getting their money back in disputes.

 

[jay helfert]

they didnt take your money they are holding it until they can figure out what happened. that is good protection from both sides. if you are in the clear you will get it back. probably anyway.

maybe you should call this guy and ask him what it is all about. or email him as you have his from ebay. you may find he isnt involved or has a problem you may clear up that he feels is justified.

if he is a creep you will find out and can deal with it.


it is good pay pal locks up wherever money they can right away. this gives everyone a better chance of getting their money back in disputes.

I did send an e-mail to the address he used last year, during this transaction. He has not responded as yet.

 

[kvinbrwr]

That makes sense....except: Wouldn't even PayPal have a "time limitation" with the CC companies or banks it deals with? Afterall, NOBODY wants things to come back to haunt them after a year and a half. PayPal has no real guarantees, because Jay could have long ago closed his account (right? I don't really know or use paypal).

IOW Jay isn't the ONLY one who would have a problem with long, interminable chains of "charge backs" that can go on forever--paypal can get screwed on them too (the way you explain it).

Of course, on either end of these chains are always actual SINGLE HUMANS who WILL take it up the butt: for example, try complaining to your CARD COMPANY 18 months after a problem--and they'll tell you to take a hike. In this case, (the way you explain it) the CC company just took their own sweet time to pull back on a phony charge--because there's no way their CUSTOMER waited 18 months before saying he found a ripoff charge on his card.

I'm sure PayPal would put a limitation on it of they could, but they can't. PayPal needs, MC, Visa and AmEx, not the other way around. The CC companies dictate terms to PayPal not vice/versa. In any circumastance, PayPal or direct merchant account, if the bank ends up with a disputed charge, they are charge back whomever they paid. People get confused and make PayPal out as the "bad guy" here, but anybody with a direct merchant credit card processing agreement knows this to be the case. This is not PayPal's policy, this is the policy of the the credit card companies. They get a charge disputed and they are at risk of losing money, they immediately snap the money back from PayPal, PayPal turns around and takes their money back from whomever they paid. If PayPal was out of the picture and we all had credit card terminals, the results would be the same, we'd look at our account and see it short the money the bank took back.

Kevin

18 months is a long time for a charge back to get processed. Way too long for either the back or the credit card company to be allowing a customer dispute. This is either a mistake, somebody hitting a wrong button, or a fraud investigation or a case of ID theft, or something weird and unusual. However, any thoughts about the corporation, or the bank ought to be the ones that get caught holding the bag is just wishful thinking. If there is a consumer involved, its just a lock where its going to end up.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I hope it all gets worked out Jay. Thieves are the lowest of the low, especially when it is stealing from an individual.

I am like others on here. I don't keep any money in my paypal account. As soon as someone pays me, I transfer it to the bank. Paypal doesn't have any jurisdiction over bank transactions unless you authorize it. If they try to take money from your bank account, the bank gets involved and it gets solved quickly.

Any money in the paypal account is presided over by them. They are judge, jury, and executioner of your hard earned cash.

In the end, there's a judge that's the judge, it really doesn't make a difference if the money is in the PayPal account or not. If it is, we all know what happens, PayPal snaps it back.

if it's not, PayPal will take what is there and put a hold on your account until you fund the balance. If you don't fund the balance, PayPal will close your account and give it to their great big huge legal department. Their lawyers take your authorized (by you when you signed up to accept payments) agreement with PayPal (where you promise to reimburse PayPal for any charge backs they incur) and proof that PayPal was charged back in a transaction where they paid you, and sue you, along with 5000 other people that month. They then obtain 5000 legally enforceable judgments for the balance plus court costs and they hand them to their big fat collection department and they collect.

You can set up one of those domino dealys with multiple bank accounts, none of that matters. PayPal has access to your PayPal account and to your bank account only if you authorize it, otherwise, they chase you in court just like anybody with an authorized legal agreement you default on.

Kevin

 

[Thunder Thighs]

He better hope that we don't cross paths again. He won't be so bold if he's looking down the barrel of a .38.

Use a .45.... "When you care enough to send the very best" :grin-square: