People are Failing, not Pool Rooms...

[Paul Schofield]

Yes, a sports bar has more appeal. My last room had fourteen TV's, including four big screens (50-60") and one giant (8') screen. We had ALL sports on all day long. Baseball, basketball, football and maybe a little hockey. That's about it. You could watch a television from any place in the room (covered 7,000 square feet). When the Lakers played we were packed! Same for pro football, especially the Monday night game.

Everyone was eating pizza, drinking beer, shooting pool and sweating the game. I had a hard core of maybe fifty to sixty regulars, who were into pool. Many of them bought monthly passes to play all day. The other 80% of my business was the casual player, usually two guys or couples. Sometimes several guys would come in together or two couples on a night out. Four guys sharing a table that was $8 an hour IS a cheap date!

I had only two league nights and they played on my two bar tables. If I were to do it again I would probably have more bar tables, maybe four to eight. Eric is in a special class of individual who is used to making big money. I'm not. A few thou a week is a good pay check for me. But I live a middle class life style, no mansion or Rolls in the driveway. For most of us I would think that making a nice six figure income and doing something you enjoy is pretty rewarding. It can be done.

But make no mistake, owning and running a poolroom/sports bar is not an easy job. You will be working long hours, with 50-60 hours a week the average, sometimes more. Remember you have to pick up supplies nearly every day. And you hire the employees, make the schedule and do the payroll every week. My last room was small but I still had eight employees. A lot of hours to cover, And we needed two people working every night.

John Schmidt will find out it's no piece of cake, but he may find that he can make a better living than simply playing pool. I know I did!

This all sounds good. The template you describe was good for the 80s, 90s, and maybe up to 2001. Don't count on this being a viable working plan today. Around this vast country, there are anecdotal thriving businesses like the one you described in your post. Overall, just because it worked then does not mean it will work now.

If this idea was so great, it would already be working everywhere and there would be more looking to open. This is old. We are losing numbers. If you want to open a room, you better have and be something different. Take a gamble and bet on an offbeat idea that you think might work or at least attach pool to a concept that is growing and gaining in popularity. If you succeed, everyone will benefit.

I have enormous respect for the the life long hard work and intentions of the influential, powerful, and wise people of our game. At the same time, I want to survive and I recognize that these folks have been the stewards of this sinking ship for a lot of years. I will listen but I will not follow their lead.

 

[justadub]

I will likely get flamed for this but people can think what they want about leagues being the bread and butter of pool rooms. League players don't go back on nonleague nights to practice. They get a handicap, feel they are owed something and have no need to excell as they can compete with the "equalizer". Here where I live the majority of those league players comming in on a night don't drink anyway because it will effect their skill level 3 of play. Keep in mind I do not mean all but from what I have seen it is the majority and a growing trend.

Once again I have to disagree with you, bboxgrinder... No flames, I promise.

(One of these days we'll agree on something, I'm sure!)

On any given week, 4-6 of my team are playing at least one other night, and sometimes more than that. As I'm out more than most of them (got this pool-playing bug, dontchaknow) I see many players from many of the other teams in our division playing. Would I call it 50%, I'm not sure. The biggest place to play in our division, the room with 20 tables, is the one place I don't go other than league nights, so there might very well be a bunch of other players there on non-league nights, as well. I'm certain many of those players play somewhere other than league nights, the more I think about it.

I also find your other point a bit amusing. The one thing that people like to complain about league players is that they're all there for the drinking, not the pool playing. So tell me, bbox, your league is different than this stereotype? Your league isn't a bunch of drinkers? Well, I can certainly tell you our division probably makes up for your groups lack of drinking. And many of us order food, too.

But we ain't like other people, up here we I come from. That's both good and bad, I suppose...

Now then, what can we agree on? We both like pool, right? That's a start!

 

[Kamuitipsdotcom]

Now that we have discovered the problem and we all understand our future is changing... Why don't we brainstorm some ideas. Lets discuss how to fix this nosedive we are in.

I noticed that if kids can't go to a pool hall because of age limit... Why don't we go to the school.

Most of us have connections with our local schools or high schools.

Talk with the teachers... Get them out to the local pool hall to see what playing pool is about... billiards is an educational tool as well as a socializing tool.... Useful in "game theory" and strategy planning.

Ever thought an Autism child may benefit from this?

Lets think outside the box to solve this problem.

I have more meetings with my local high school.

Our fast paced lives want a quick fix to the problems we have, this is no quick fix, we must invest a small amount of our time to make a change.

 

[Da Bank]

all these young whippersnappers with their onlines and the microchips and wireless tv controls


come on guys, the times are obviously changing, but that doesn't mean that pool can't adapt and make some sort of a comeback.

You know what I think the real problem is? You've got a bunch of know-nothings running pool halls and tournaments... half the tournaments are corrupt and the directors are taking a huge rake... 99% of the pool halls are seedy smoky joints for alcoholics, drug addicts, and hustlers. Now, people like us... we don't mind it. We go for pool.

You know what the best introduction to pool is for someone interested in playing competitively but has no experience? The APA. That's sad. Really sad.

Look, i'm not saying there aren't good guys in the pool world fighting the good fight, because there are... the TAR guys, OB Cues, JB Cases, Fatboy, etc... these are good people trying to make the game into something. But we all know that pool has turned into a classless game. I don't dare invite my parents to watch me in a tournament because they'd immediately assume that I was either getting taken advantage of by someone, or I was scoring crystal meth... neither of which is true.

The young guys, again there are many exceptions, are kids with no direction who think pool is the answer, then they do desperate things when times get desperate.

I'm not sayin pool has been squeaky clean before, because it never was... it was always a bit shady and a bit smokey... but its just like alcohol or drugs, you get a little taste of the dark side and things just start going to shit and they get worse and worse.

That's how I feel about it, but I think that pool could easily make a comeback if someone markets it right. There are some really crazy characters in pool with some really really crazy stories. Let those stories be told and let the general population know about it... not AZ Billiards. We don't need convincing that pool is awesome.

 

[Gerry]

Whenever I hear about pool failing here, I always think about other countries like the Phillipines, or the asian countries where pool is going along great! Wonder why, and what they are doing differently then us? Or did they recently discover the game and going thru the first great love affair with it?

G.

 

[JoeyA]

Buffalo Billiards

Some of what all of you have said is spot on.

I'd like to offer another point of view.

Buffalo Billiards was wiped out in Chalmette, LA during Hurricane Katrina, literally.

They reopened after the storm in Metairie, LA.

A few years ago, they expanded their original room by 50%, adding tables and other various pieces of equipment.

Now a few years later, again they are expanding, adding on another equal size addition.

Last night ( a Monday night) I've never seen so many young people in a pool room in all my life. The owner knows how to treat people. The owner knows the "secret" of managing a pool room, while still keeping the player's room tradition alive.

The television production crew looking for a "real pool room" searched the whole city looking for a pool room like Buffalo Billiards and finally found us.

The owner knows that young people have lots of disposable income. He caters to them. He makes them feel welcome. He makes sure they have a good time. It's really kind of amazing. I see other pool rooms not doing well at all. Last night the place was packed with kids with a smattering of dinosaurs.

I'm sure the economic UPHEAVAL isn't helping matters much but pool is cheap compared to many other activities and like many have said, "Make your customers feel like you want them there".

You have to have the right chemistry and we've got some new Diamond Tables on the way both 9 footers and 7 footers, so that's a big plus for the players and wannabee players...

Alcohol, video poker machines, Internet Jukebox, bowling machine. It's all there.

Buffalo Billiards Metairie, LA ( where the professional players, PLAY FOR FREE).

 

[ridinda9]

I agree on the micro level it is possible to open and run a successful pool room, I could do it and make $5,000/week. I have done the numbers, based on my experience as being a bizman thats a hanger. But its not the highest and best use of my time, I know how to work less hours and make 30 times more money.


My OP was talking about the macro level-pool as a whole. How many guys like me and you Jay know how to open and operate a pool room that would be successful? not enough. Right now is the best time ever to open up. Tables are dirt cheap, rents are super low, everything is right in the current economy to open a successful room. But thats on a micro level, 3 mile radius here and there.

OK , Eric , you & Jay know how to make A ROOM successful , but you need to make 30 times more money . . .
Open 30 rooms ! Then sell off the franchises to those 30 rooms , & open 60 more . . . .sell 60 & open 120 more . . .
yeah , just a pipe dream . . . but why does Hooters work ?
I can see more at the nudie bar , & some of 'em even have better wings . . . . (real buffalo wings aren't battered ! )
tables , video machines , wi-fi , & smokin' hot waitresses . . .
Call the chain Fatboy J's & you both get rich . . . .

p.s. kids still love pool ~ look at the clamor to be "next" at any Boys & Girls Club . . . .

 

[justadub]

OK , Eric , you & Jay know how to make A ROOM successful , but you need to make 30 times more money . . .
Open 30 rooms ! Then sell off the franchises to those 30 rooms , & open 60 more . . . .sell 60 & open 120 more . . .
yeah , just a pipe dream . . . but why does Hooters work ?
I can see more at the nudie bar , & some of 'em even have better wings . . . . (real buffalo wings aren't battered ! )
tables , video machines , wi-fi , & smokin' hot waitresses . . .
Call the chain Fatboy J's & you both get rich . . . .

p.s. kids still love pool ~ look at the clamor to be "next" at any Boys & Girls Club . . . .

Hey, now we're talking! :thumbup:

 

[pooln8r]

OK , Eric , you & Jay know how to make A ROOM successful , but you need to make 30 times more money . . .
Open 30 rooms ! Then sell off the franchises to those 30 rooms , & open 60 more . . . .sell 60 & open 120 more . . .
yeah , just a pipe dream . . . but why does Hooters work ?
I can see more at the nudie bar , & some of 'em even have better wings . . . . (real buffalo wings aren't battered ! )
tables , video machines , wi-fi , & smokin' hot waitresses . . .
Call the chain Fatboy J's & you both get rich . . . .

p.s. kids still love pool ~ look at the clamor to be "next" at any Boys & Girls Club . . . .

Third!...I also think if there was a well established turn key solution for room opening or a pool room franchise that there would be more people willing to own and run a room. It would be a major bonus if that room fits the current market's tastes and budget. Very nice on the name too.

--- Hell yeah on the buffalo wings! If they're breaded and spicy they should only be called hot wings---

 

[hunger strike]

Ted Pierson's wisdom on keeping the poolroom open...

Fatboy ~ My table mechanic, an 84 year-old man who still works on pool tables, is a good friend and a very, very funny man. He is from Joplin, MO. I have antique pool tables and an antique Brunswick poker table in my house and he was recovering my 10' Kling pool table. I commented on the poker table. He said, "well John, if you ever start a poolroom, just remember to never ever put poker tables in there..." When I asked why, he said "...well, John, if you ever let 'em sit down, THEY'LL NEVER GET UP!"

 

[enzo]

I'm one of the technophiles you speak of. I built my computer for gaming online, I use netfilix, video streaming, I keep up on online culture. And I love pool. Perhaps I'm atypical of most people, but I see no reason why pool cannot thrive in today's world.

Personally, I think everything you say about pool could be said about baseball. Baseball is a slow game, not many points, no instant gratifiaction. Baseball is archaic, old, and yet it thrives. Why hasn't baseball been swallowed by today's digital culture?

I don't believe pool is somehow outdated, or any worse entertainment-wise than baseball. I think pool just has too low of a profile. Allow me to ask a few questions?

1. Do you think most people can name 5 famous pool players?
2. Why are pool table found in bars, or other places where alcohol is served?
3 Why are pool tables so expensive?

Now allow me to answer surmise why I feel pool isn't popluar:

Since I was a child, I've always seen pool tables in bars, or pool halls. Hell, even the local pool hall, you have to 18 to get in. Right there alone, in my eyes, boots children right out. Meaning, out of sight, out of mind. How are you going to grow future pool players when it's out of their reach? Pool is associated with smokey bars, places where adults hang out and do adult things.

It's not like pool caters to young people.

Now, how about pool tables at someones house? If if you can't take kids to bars to play pool, why not bring pool tables to the kids? The problem being is how much does a pool table cost? How about a Pro-Am or a GC? What's the price of those? List price of GCV is $8,999.00, according to their website.

What's the price of a Playstation 3? 300 bucks from Amazon.com. So, out of sheer attainability, which is eaiser to get a hold of?

How about this:

Child: Mom, I want a Gold Crown 5 for christmas.
Mom: I'd love to, but I don't have 9000 dollars.

How about this:

Child: Mom, I want a Playstation 3 for chistmas.
Mom: I'm so glad you said that, because I'd rather get you a playstation than get you a gold crown because they are 10 times less.

And people wonder why pool isn't popluar. For that same 9000 dollars it takes to buy a GC, I could get a gaming class computer, PS3, flat screen TV and a nice sound system, an Xbox, a Wii, and still have about 5000 left.

Personally, I think if GC was $1000 (or any other good pool talble) you'd have a good start to hooking future generations. But above all else, out of sight, out of mind. You're not gaining fans of pool if there are no pool tables readily available.

nice thoughts. i use this example too much, but who does readily have access to pool tables at a young age? filipinos.

 

[SCCues]

All these threads about pool rooms failing are BS. Sorry it had to be said.


The reason is people are failing to go to pool rooms because there is newer and more fun things to do than push balls around with a stick.

Instant gratification is what sells now, it takes most people way to long to play pool at a level thats fun. So they try it and after 2 times they get board and move on.


Movies on your computer, poker, Facebook, Netflix, txt messages etc all have taken a little bit out of pool, we spend our time differently now days. Printing presses are getting cheaper, because email replaced them. Pool is just being replaced by new forms of entertainment. Do we entertain our selfs like people did 300 or 200 or even 100 years ago? No of course not.

We are living in a revlouanary time, the time of transition is now, things are changing faster than they have in many decades. Like right after the Civil War people went west, lots of things changed-fast. Then things slowed down until cars were invented-that changed everything. Right now is one of those turning points in society, up til now the past few decades have been pretty flat, not much changed. Hair styles and cloths but nothing big like cars and electricity. Computers are changing everything.


Thats the real reason pool is suffering. Sure there will be the people who hang on, and some people still have a B&W TV or listen to 8 trac tapes. But the masses dont. And wont.

I haven't thought about all the things that you've listed, but I have to agree with everything you've said. There are a lot of things to steer younger potential players away from pool now versus a few years ago.

James

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Honestly if we told Owners what was WRONG with their Rooms/Bars. Plus what we thought would help resolve problems. How many would do anything to change?

 

[BRKNRUN]

nice thoughts. i use this example too much, but who does readily have access to pool tables at a young age? filipinos.

LOL.....My son has had access to a pool table since he was about 6 years old...He is 17 now and never plays pool....He sits about 2' from the table while he is on the computer, or playing his guitar. His friends come over....not one of them plays....and they have zero interest in it.

I am not worried though....I would actually prefer him spend time playing the guitar over playing pool....He really enjoys it..and enjoys getting together with his friends that play.....and chicks dig those guitar players ya know...

Left dear old dad in the dust....all alone with my cue and a 9' GCII.......and not even my wife digs it!!!

There is still hope.....Perhaps I can lure 11 year old sister over to the dark side....:smile:

 

[Snake Plisken]

I agree! People are failing. I had a fascination with pool since the first time I saw a pool table ( 7-8 yo?). But I never would have become as obsessed about pool as I had so early on if it wasn't for someone of an older generation taking the time to teach me some things.

I had a high school friend that had an 8' table in his home. I started playing on it daily the later part of my freshman year of high school. If it wasn't for my friend, and more so his father, taking the time to teach me I may have lost interest do to not being able to p/u the game quickly enough.

Even though this was the time when video games were coming out (and i played them) there was a unique satisfaction that came with playing pool, sinking balls and controlling whitey that couldn't be replaced by video games.

I guess my point is that I feel it is very important to pass down the passion for pool to the next generation. It will take someone to take the time to expose a younger generation to the wonders of pool. It is difficult for pool to compete with the quality graphics and gameplay of todays video games. Many kids may view it as simply pushing balls around with a stick, and that perception will never be able to compete with todays technology.

Everyone that loves this game should do what they can to pass along the passion to the next generation. With many pool halls closing, the limited t.v. exposure pool gets, and the rate at which technology is advancing, and parents who are satisfied with allowing their kids to sit in front of a t.v. all day playing video games, the future for pool looks grim.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Do you truly believe that people failed pool halls.
Where is it written that just because you own a pool hall, that the world owes you a living. I've had 2 businesses, one went south and the other is doing well. All I know is unless you're a farmer, no one is going to bail you out.

Four words: Instant credit, instant gratification.

Advertising, they all want a piece of the action, your attention, time and money.

Sign on the line and drive home the vehicle of your dreams today.
Same with anything electronic. Walk into just about any big box store and the next thing you know, you'll be sitting in front of a 46" LCD complete with a home theater system.
Want a camera, computer, anything, its yours.
All this until the end of the month when the bills start rolling in.

Home theater system, satelite dish, a computer 5 feet away and your Blackberry on the coffee table in front of you.

Exactly why do you need to leave the house?

So, are people failing the pool halls? No way. If the halls want a piece of the action they have to diversify, go get your slice of the pie. Its there for you, you just have to do your part.

Pool is my life, I'd play 24/7 if I could.
High priced table time, mediocre food at best and luke warm beer.

Tell me why I need to spend my hard earned money at your place.

 

[paksat]

I always liked the idea of getting a membership vs paying for table time.

It'd be just like going to the gym in that perspective.

 

[LAlouie]

All these threads about pool rooms failing are BS. Sorry it had to be said.
We are living in a revlouanary time, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

???whatever. Anyway, you are right but you're still kinda wrong. The "people are failing"?, I don't think so. A rewording would be apropos here. The failing does indeed rest with pool. It was always boring to the general public, long before technology.


People aren't failing to support pool because it's not their responsibility to support it.....IT'S POOL'S. Be that as it may, by now the problems with pool are all too well known to everyone save that one person who keeps posting, trying to find solutions to save pool.:smile::smile::smile::smile: god bless "him"

 

[S.Tat]

Read through all the responses, and I've got just a few things to chime in.

Pool halls as a whole will not make more money unless there are more players. You cannot simply start up 4 rooms and expect them all to thrive without tugging on another room's profits. It's a matter of supply vs demand, you must create players before you can create locations.

The space needed to host a table steers most away - tell me you've never heard a poolplayer say "I would get a table, but I don't have the space for it", you'll probably be counting for a while.

The thing about North Americans (not just America, us Canadians too) is that we want instant gratification as mentioned before. You pick up a pool cue and try it out, you suck, you quit. There is no peer influence to make you want to keep trying vand no incentive within the game itself, no "home run" per se, which makes a sport like baseball entertaining.

So now this ESPN speedpool thing is on, most die hards disapprove and those that don't follow pool might be interested but whether they are or aren't, the superiors in their city all hate it so why would they follow? The peer pressure is just too strong for something like that.

It also doesn't offer beginners a chance to compete like it's quick-growing counterpart, poker, making it extremely tough to reel in new players. It's been mentioned that "ball bangers" get shunned too. That doesn't help the sport. We all start somewhere, "ball bangers" is just the most common that I see.

There are other points that skipped my mind while reading other replies, but I'm pretty sure I covered most of my thoughts.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Fatboy, great post! I agree that there is that side to pool. Pool is still one of the few ways you can seriously whip some a$$(or have yours whipped) without getting physically hurt. . .days of no sleep not withstanding. I think there is history and value in that. I like beating a guy out of all he will play for, but in a weird way, I like meeting that guy who can whip me and making a target out of him/her.

I think that is pool. Being the best a "World of Warcraft" will never be close, even if you gamble at it.

Pool is also one of the few sports where you can become the best you can be and take games off a pro. Maybe even win a race to 7 if you are real solid. Still, in a long match you would lose, but still, it feels good to be close.