Yeah, that's why me and DaPoet have been referring to the rules from the large team manual. One hint that we aren't using the abbreviated version that you're referring to is when we say page 51, page 30, or Page 47. Clearly this is much larger than the 17 page manual that you're referring to. Some people don't have the capacity to connect the dots.MrLucky said:
Perhaps she had a few too many......APA ruling
- Thread starter SharpPT
- Start date
MrLucky said:Da Poet said:The rule does not state "in the process of shooting" it states, "during his turn at the table". There is a significant difference.
Let me try and explain this so its understood ! first of all you are looking at / copying and pasting from the APA 8 ball and 9 ball Booklet! it is an abreviated basics for APA players it is posted on the website for download and given in a small 17 page booklet to all players for them to understand the basic most likely to occur issues they will encounter in every day play! Team
Captains and Division
Reps get the Team APA Rules Manual which is far more in depth and is used to resolve 99% of the issues that may and will come up! You obviously have wayyyyyy more time on your hands than I do since you have copied and pasted not only what you think is an ruling to support your argument but also almost every comment I have made wether or not it is pertinent to the question at hand!
I personally do not have the time to transcribe rulings from the team manual on here to show you why the ruling that was made in this young ladies game was made!!!! I did not tell them she lost the match the LO or Division Mgr there made the decision!!!! I am only trying to explain to you that i was the right one !!!I suggested to you that if you are an APA player
that you take it up with your division mgr or LO as I did after this post and they can / should be able to explain the rules to your satisfaction!
Now let me remind you my first response to you and flika was that the statement ..."Originally Posted by FLICKit
Whether it be APA or BCA ... there is sort of an oddity which is overlooked. Since most leagues do not play all balls foul. Technically this would not be your standard foul call. This was complicated by the fact that the 8-ball was knocked in. But, just like any other non-legitimate movement of balls situation, the balls must be replaced"... was and is not applicable to any APA match in 8 ball if the 8 is is shot in in a foul situation it does not ever come up and be spotted it is a LOSS OF GAME! PERIOD !
If you would have bothered to check the link I have been using, you would have seen that it is not the 17 page manual but the Team Manual you are referring to.
You have not given me any reason to waste anyone else's time with this.
MrLucky said:You 2 are the only ones on this post with a problem with the FACT that she lost the game!!!! LOL! connect those dots my friend! hint , it wasn't my ruling!
First of all, if you look, it doesn't say where the original ruling came from, player, team, captain, league rep nor LO.
Next, you see that he posed questions that he wanted rulings on, preferably from the book, but he just didn't look himself.SharpPT said:
Finally, I took the matter to the next level, went above league rep and instead spoke with League Operator. He goes directly by the book, "official team manual" and stated that the correct ruling is that the ball must be replaced, and she'd resume her shot.
This matter is concluded. MrLucky is WRONG
And as we've known all along, we're RIGHT! 
Does anyone else want to pursue this matter any further with MrLucky, THE LOSER?
rofl
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Hey Guys, Stop it or better settle this matter to Judge Judy !
The Ball is Foul !!! Full Count, 3 balls : 2 strikes !
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I was done with this but since it keeps getting revived ...
Since my Division rep ruled that it was a loss to shoot in a 8 ball with a illegal shot and as long as I have played 8 ball most teams play on valley 7 footers where you can not retrieve the 8 ball if they wanted to .......!!!!!
Please show me where you copied this statement ! I suppose was supposed to have been made by the original poster? and Don't get me wrong here LOL! I am not accusing you of making it up or changing anything but.... I can't seem to find where Sharp PT the original poster ever said this! According to his post The outcome was SHE LOST! which is what this is all about isn't / wasn't it? 
FLICKit said:Finally, I took the matter to the next level, went above league rep and instead spoke with League Operator. He goes directly by the book, "official team manual" and stated that the correct ruling is that the ball must be replaced, and she'd resume her shot.
This matter is concluded. MrLucky is WRONG
Since my Division rep ruled that it was a loss to shoot in a 8 ball with a illegal shot and as long as I have played 8 ball most teams play on valley 7 footers where you can not retrieve the 8 ball if they wanted to .......!!!!!
Please show me where you copied this statement ! I suppose was supposed to have been made by the original poster? and Don't get me wrong here
LOL! I am not accusing you of making it up or changing anything but.... I can't seem to find where Sharp PT the original poster ever said this! According to his post The outcome was SHE LOST! which is what this is all about isn't / wasn't it?
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SharpPT made the original post which started this thread. Refer back to that.MrLucky said:
Next, as far as the bar box table issue, refer back to my original post in this thread, #15.
Overall, it doesn't matter any more...
This matter is concluded. MrLucky is WRONG
And as we've known all along, we're RIGHT! No judge needed, we had it solved since post #15...
FLICKit said:SharpPT made the original post which started this thread. Refer back to that.
Next, as far as the bar box table issue, refer back to my original post in this thread, #15.
Overall, it doesn't matter any more...
This matter is concluded. MrLucky is WRONG
No judge needed, we had it solved since post #15...
hate to tell you this but he never said that LMAO! and you right its been over for awhile I was just trying to give you benefit of the doubt! It is a little disturbing to see how few people have a grasp of the APA rules. This is very common. Most times the rules are passed from generation to generaltion of players. Most people believe a rule is the rule because they heard someone say it. One of the most amazing qualities of some people is that they will steadfastly debate a point on which they actually are wrong. I wonder if these people consider exactly where they got their information before making a strong claim about it. Everyone in the APA should read the entire team manual and ask the LO any questions they have.
This is a very simple situation. If the cue ball was not contacted there is no foul. This is simply a matter of moving an object ball. The ball goes back where it was. It is not an option to put it back. The opponent MUST put it back, and the incoming player must accept where the opponent places the 8 ball. It makes no difference if it is the 8 ball or any other ball. This is absolutely no different than if the 8 ball (or any other ball) was hanging in a pocket, and dropped in at a later time. The ball goes back.
What is even a little unclear here?
This is a very simple situation. If the cue ball was not contacted there is no foul. This is simply a matter of moving an object ball. The ball goes back where it was. It is not an option to put it back. The opponent MUST put it back, and the incoming player must accept where the opponent places the 8 ball. It makes no difference if it is the 8 ball or any other ball. This is absolutely no different than if the 8 ball (or any other ball) was hanging in a pocket, and dropped in at a later time. The ball goes back.
What is even a little unclear here?
MrLucky said:Have you ever played APA 8 ball? if you have you should know that ANYTIME the 8 goes in to a pocket that wasn't called or marked it is loss of game ! in this case she may have marked the pocket but it was a illegal hit on the 8 Loss of Game ! Period.
This is actually wrong. A counter example would be if the 8 ball were hanging in a pocket, and in the process of shooting another ball the 8 ball fell in. Or if a player hit the 8 ball with the butt of their cue while getting into position to shoot and it fell in. These are not loss of game. The 8 ball gets put back where it was by the opponent. Period.
KMRUNOUT
MrLucky said:it seems only 2 people seem to not understand that she did not accidently touch / move a ball! she shot the 8 ball in illegally!!!!!! and it is a loss of game in APA ! what part of this is not in accordance with the rules ????????????????
Peace Mr Lucky !
Funny- I know several division reps that don't know what they are talking about. Once again, this goes back to my comment about where people get their information. If you believe an APA rule is true because your division rep says so, you may want to rethink that. Isn't it possible that your rep is wrong? Most people who I see become reps have been in the league for a while and often know the rules based on verbal folklore rather than actual study and accuracy.
KMRUNOUT
12squared said:
Regardless of who is right or wrong, the fact remains that the woman lost the match by pocketing the 8-ball without the CB. So, may I ask the one who posted this thread if his lady friend was able to address her case and overrule the decision of the one who is incharge of that match? if not, then the decision stands. no further arguments are necessary.
Hail Mary, respectfully, you're ignoring some pretty vital information regarding this thread. First of which, is that there is no universally standard set of rules. Each organization, or league or book often have their own unique set of rules. Thus, what might be correct under one set of rules, may be totally different in another set of rules. No matter where you play (leagues, tournaments, recreational, gambling), it's very important to establish which set of rules you are playing by, and abide by those rules.Hail Mary Shot said:
In this case the set of rules for the original poster (OP) in this thread was using the APA rules. From the posts that I've seen you make in this thread, you appear to have no affiliation with the guidelines established in the APA rule book. Therefore as long as your comments do not comply with the APA rules, then there will always be a discrepancy in our communication.
None of us in this thread are attempting to have the OP overrule anything that occurred on the night in question. Rulings were made and were accepted by both teams, and the matter appears to have proceeded without further incident. So it is concluded, and was before the OP made a single post in this thread.
But, out of curiosity the OP asked the following questions:
SharpPT said:
These questions have been asked and answered thoroughly throughout this thread based according to the APA rules.
Keep it civil guys.
Either play nice or I will be back and set everyone in a different corner!
Either play nice or I will be back and set everyone in a different corner!
Well, I can't believe I read every post. Maybe it's time as someone said to put something explicit in the rules, because frankly, it's obvious that it is NOT clear.
Several questions to keep in mind:
Was it a shot?
If it was a shot, is it a foul? Rule 9.h suggests it is a foul. No cueball touched any object ball. And if the 8-ball is pocketed during a foul, it's a loss. But, is it an actual shot? Probably not. So....
Did the player knock in the 8-ball "out of turn"? (Crazy wording rule 10.b).
If it's not a shot (see above,) then clearly, the 8-ball went in early. It went in before the shot. I know the intent of the wording "out of turn" must be "before it's the legal object ball." This might be the ruling in my little world.
And finally, is this movement really spelled out in the "accidental movement of an object ball," rule 9.g. If the term "accidentally" wasn't there, I'd say yes this rule applies. But, you really have to stretch the imagination that this was accidental.
So... all that being said, similar things happen in the bars all the time, so a little explicity wouldn't hurt.
Fred <~~~ would rule on looks alone
Several questions to keep in mind:
Was it a shot?
If it was a shot, is it a foul? Rule 9.h suggests it is a foul. No cueball touched any object ball. And if the 8-ball is pocketed during a foul, it's a loss. But, is it an actual shot? Probably not. So....
Did the player knock in the 8-ball "out of turn"? (Crazy wording rule 10.b).
If it's not a shot (see above,) then clearly, the 8-ball went in early. It went in before the shot. I know the intent of the wording "out of turn" must be "before it's the legal object ball." This might be the ruling in my little world.
And finally, is this movement really spelled out in the "accidental movement of an object ball," rule 9.g. If the term "accidentally" wasn't there, I'd say yes this rule applies. But, you really have to stretch the imagination that this was accidental.
So... all that being said, similar things happen in the bars all the time, so a little explicity wouldn't hurt.
Fred <~~~ would rule on looks alone