phenolic tip vs hard leather

[berlowmj]

I have been using a Fury break cue with phenolic tip. With practice, I am significantly reducing my miscues, however I am limited to a center ball hit on the cue ball. I have watched other players get equal explosion & pocket balls on the break with equal & even greater frequency with hard leather tips. The phenolic tip also requires more practice& concentration on the center hit than the hard leather. However, I am assuming that since the phenolic tip is illegal in many tournaments that it provides an unfair advantage which I would like to have in settings where this is permitted. As you can see, I am torn & confused. Help!

 

[lights_out]

I have used both on my Predator BK. I always try to use a center ball hit on all breaks unless I know the 1 ball (in 9 ball of course) doesn't get pocketed and drifts up table consistently. Then I'll put a hair of draw on it. I have, inadvertently, put a lot of draw on the cue ball using the phenolic, enough where the cue ball draws to the head rail and rebounds back to the center of the table. Of course I act as if I meant to do that . I've used a cut break too with low right english. You can use all types of english with the phenolic as long as you keep within the limits of miscuing.

I'm currently back to using an extra hard layered water buffalo tip. I seem to get as big a break. The only reason I'm back to leather is the phenolics keep popping off after only a few months of playing. Last time it happened as I was practicing before a local tournament and left me without a break cue for the rest of the day. I don't seem to have this problem with leather.

 

[manwon]

I have been using a Fury break cue with phenolic tip. With practice, I am significantly reducing my miscues, however I am limited to a center ball hit on the cue ball. I have watched other players get equal explosion & pocket balls on the break with equal & even greater frequency with hard leather tips. The phenolic tip also requires more practice& concentration on the center hit than the hard leather. However, I am assuming that since the phenolic tip is illegal in many tournaments that it provides an unfair advantage which I would like to have in settings where this is permitted. As you can see, I am torn & confused. Help!

There are a number of ways to reduce mis-cues with a phenolic.

First of all, the myth that phenolic tips do not wear is BULLHOOKE, when the surface becomes shiny like any other tip it must be ruffed up a little.

For my customers, I will cut circular grooves in the business end of the tip, I also do this for Jump cue tips. I do with the lathe blade or a file, depending how I am setup at the time.

Additionally, I have discovered that with phenolic tips or ferrules if they are less round / almost flat you will have much better surface contact / control and with the groove mentioned above very few mis-cues even if you do not hit the cue ball center.

I generally use a hair of bottom left on the cue while breaking myself and I do not have any problems.

Any cue repairman can modify your tip very easily, for few bucks.

Good Luck

Manwon

 

[NINEBALLART]

I have the Fury jump/break cue and have never miscued...For fun one day I shot a few games of 8 ball using the Fury and had no problems... The key is not to try and break as hard as you can...Its a one piece tip and it holds chalk well. I break a firm hard...But not an all out blast it type break. I do from time to time rough up the tip with my George shaper...
I had a Vintage jump/break before this one and it had a Le Pro tip on it. I had a friend put a Phenolic tip on it and it broke twice as hard and worked much better for me...
Try keeping chalk on it and slow your break down a little and see what happens...

 

[mworkman]

I have used both on my Predator BK. I always try to use a center ball hit on all breaks unless I know the 1 ball (in 9 ball of course) doesn't get pocketed and drifts up table consistently. Then I'll put a hair of draw on it. I have, inadvertently, put a lot of draw on the cue ball using the phenolic, enough where the cue ball draws to the head rail and rebounds back to the center of the table. Of course I act as if I meant to do that . I've used a cut break too with low right english. You can use all types of english with the phenolic as long as you keep within the limits of miscuing.

I'm currently back to using an extra hard layered water buffalo tip. I seem to get as big a break. The only reason I'm back to leather is the phenolics keep popping off after only a few months of playing. Last time it happened as I was practicing before a local tournament and left me without a break cue for the rest of the day. I don't seem to have this problem with leather.

It's weird that it pops off. I superglued my own phenolic tip on myself and started using it 5 min later. That was a couple years ago and it's never fallen off and I've been breaking as hard as I can lately. I do think you are more likey to miscue with the phenolic, but I think its worth it. I made sure I put alot of scratches in the tip and the ferell before I put it on as the superglue needs a little air in there to get it to work.

 

[xidica]

Manwon,

Would roughing up the phenolic on my Jerico phenolic be ok?
I just want to clear up something that a cue repairman told me :
"You should never use an it's George on a phenolic tip, let me do it..."

I'm thinking he just wants a few extra bucks and this guy is known for "Always Being Right" if you know what I mean

Thanks in advance!

 

[Varney Cues]

If you have your cueman cut some deep circle grooves into the phenolic then you'll never need to scuff it.

 

[manwon]

Manwon,

Would roughing up the phenolic on my Jerico phenolic be ok?
I just want to clear up something that a cue repairman told me :
"You should never use an it's George on a phenolic tip, let me do it..."

I'm thinking he just wants a few extra bucks and this guy is known for "Always Being Right" if you know what I mean

Thanks in advance!

Scuffing the tip is another option, but as I said before having small circles cut in the Business end of the tip is the best method, and it will take years before you have to do it again if done correctly.

If you scuff the tip by hand I would use 100 grit sand paper hold the paper in your hand with the cue assembled with the bumper on floor slowly turn the cue to rough the surface, do not grind on the tip, or it will lose it's contour and you will have flat spot's.

Have a nice night!!

Manwon

 

[mattman]

After recently purchasing my Fury J/B cue I probably mis-cued about 30% out of the first 20 breaks, but I noticed the other 70% of the time I was breaking harder than ever before and of that 70%, 50% of the time I was leaving the cueball dead center of table after break. I really didn't like it at first because of the miscues, but now I am getting used to the cue. My table will be up soon so I will be able to practice more often.

 

[RiverCity]

If you have your cueman cut some deep circle grooves into the phenolic then you'll never need to scuff it.

Come on Kevin....... Im jones'n for some pics!!!
Chuck

 

[lights_out]

It's weird that it pops off. I superglued my own phenolic tip on myself and started using it 5 min later. That was a couple years ago and it's never fallen off and I've been breaking as hard as I can lately. I do think you are more likey to miscue with the phenolic, but I think its worth it. I made sure I put alot of scratches in the tip and the ferell before I put it on as the superglue needs a little air in there to get it to work.

Yeah, don't know why it happened, or keeps happening. Last time it happened it hit the guy I was warming up with square it the chest. He's looking around thinking someone threw something at him. Meanwhile I'm laughing my butt off.

 

[Varney Cues]

Phenolic tips CA glued to a ferrule are a problem waiting to happen. If you break hard or miscue it will come off. I used to use JB Coldweld on them...still they'd pop off. If someone has one staying on, great...but remember me when it turns loose. The cure I found was to tap the ferrule 5/16-18 and then make the tip with a 5/16-18 stem and thread it down into the ferrule. This gives it much more glue surface plus the threads make sure it stays put even with a horrid miscue or worse, dropping it on a hard floor.

 

[playablue]

Personally, I Like the phenolic tip. I mean do not get me wrong it does miscue more than I would prefer but that is in the beginning once you get used to it, less power is needed for an even better break. and isn't that what we are ultimately aiming for?

 

[Varney Cues]

it does miscue more

Have your cueman flatten the tip a bit...then you'll have a larger contact area (sweet spot) and it won't miscue. Also the flat tip will not put any unwanted english on the ball...allowing you to stop the cueball in the center of the table easier.

 

[StormHotRod300]

the guy who put my Phenolic tip/ferrule on my cue, uses Gorilla Glue, and lets it set in for 24hrs. And he has yet to have one pop off.

He refuses to just put on a Phenolic TIP because if you miscue its bound to pop off again.

Also the reason he uses Gorilla Glue, is because it will expand and it doesnt leave any air pockets when it dries up.

the same guy, put a Phenolic tip/ferrule on a Predator BK and had to add a dowel to the shaft, because when he was shaving down the original ferrule, it exploded, because of the ferrule being hollow.

But when all was said and done, he told me that, this cue is now just going to destroy racks cuz it will break so hard.

Which it did, because i know the guy who has it, and man! he just kills the racks.

 

[manwon]

I have been using two part Epoxy, for around three years. I have very few problems with tips coming off, but you never know, so if a tip that I put on comes off or if a ferrule cracks, I replace it free.

I charge $25 to install a Phenolic Tip or Ferrule.

Manwon

 

[NaturalEnglish]

Have your cueman flatten the tip a bit...then you'll have a larger contact area (sweet spot) and it won't miscue. Also the flat tip will not put any unwanted english on the ball...allowing you to stop the cueball in the center of the table easier.

How much is a bit? I sanded my Fury j/b tip to about a quarter radius. I used the inside of a piece of pvc pipe cut length wise...then put some sand paper inside the pipe. Came out pretty close to a quarter radius. Should it be flatter? Dont forget the same tip has to be used as a jumper too. Does a flatter tip work better is a jumper?

I would like to add some "grooves" as suggested to the phenolic tip. Any suggestions on how to do that in a home setting? Seems sandpaper would not be the best. Maybe use a tip tapper then rotate the tip on the tapper?

 

[Varney Cues]

How much is a bit? I sanded my Fury j/b tip to about a quarter radius. I used the inside of a piece of pvc pipe cut length wise...then put some sand paper inside the pipe. Came out pretty close to a quarter radius. Should it be flatter? Dont forget the same tip has to be used as a jumper too. Does a flatter tip work better is a jumper?

I would like to add some "grooves" as suggested to the phenolic tip. Any suggestions on how to do that in a home setting? Seems sandpaper would not be the best. Maybe use a tip tapper then rotate the tip on the tapper?

You can make it as flat as you'd like. While some may argue that it needs to be round to jump balls...I find that absolutely not true. My personal Varney j/b cue has the tip almost totally flat, just very slightly rounded at the edges. With my tip this flat...it still jumps like magic. I can jump an entire object ball from less than 1 inch away. As I mentioned earlier the flatter tip allow for a larger sweet spot on the cueball and also it does not add any unwanted english on the break...allowing you to park the rock in the center of the table very consistantly. The Xbreaker even goes so far as to put a concaved dome on their newer tip to make a larger sweet spot.
As for putting groves in it at home...next to impossible. Have it done on a lathe. Use the corner of a utility (I'm not responsible if you lose a finger) blade and start at the center and work out. By just pressing the blade tip into the tip while its spinning, you can create deep circular grooves which hold chalk wonderfully. If you MUST do it yourself...then you may need to rig a drill mounted to a board. Then get an extra joint pin and chuck it up in the drill. This will allow you to spin the shaft at home if you don't own a lathe. It will look like this when done correctly...easy to see how well it hold chalk.

 

[NaturalEnglish]

Those grooves do look pretty interesting. But I would imagine they will wear down and the tip will get smoother as times goes on. Phenolic is hard...but its not steel. What has been your experience with the life of those grooves? The tip radius looks pretty close to my tip radius of about a quarter.

 

[Flex]

Those grooves do look pretty interesting. But I would imagine they will wear down and the tip will get smoother as times goes on. Phenolic is hard...but its not steel. What has been your experience with the life of those grooves? The tip radius looks pretty close to my tip radius of about a quarter.

They'll wear down pretty quickly, in my experience. What I do now is use 40 grit sandpaper to scuff the phenolic tip from time to time. Puts some pretty good scratches that'll hold chalk very well.