Phillipino dominance?

I think we shouldn't be too hard on Sprite. He's entitled to his own opinion. And if we consider what Buddha also has to say, then Sprite is not very far-off.

I think what we should all avoid is speaking in superlatives and generalizations. The top pool players from the Philippines and Taiwan (as well as Germany) are all very good and can beat each other at any time. It all depends on who's playing better that day.

That said, I think the people who keep repeating Earl's or Johnny's record are losing touch with reality and hanging onto the good ol' days where the Americans dominated pool because there was no real competition.
 
bandido said:
Not the real story, a player of mine was with Eric when they left the poolhall.

well, don't keep us in suspense, bandido. what really happened that fateful day???
 
I did get to watch a lot of games on Taiwanese Cable over the last couple of years. (Videoland is on ppstream for so long)
But my impression is that the Pinoys are slightly better.
Only Yang, Wu and Chao from Taiwan can match the best Pinoy bunch of Efren, Busta, Alex, Ronnie, Dennis, Marlon, Parica, Luat...
I'll only bet on the Taiwanese team when they're playing at home.
(I happen to be half Filipino, half Taiwanese-speaking Chinese. Rest assured I'm not biased too!:cool: )
 
Last edited:
big_worm said:
I did get to watch a lot of games on Taiwanese Cable over the last couple of years. (Videoland is on ppstream for so long)
But my impression is that the Pinoys are slightly better.

This is certainly a valid point of view (finally!), and throughout the years I've given a slight edge to one side as well as the other.

Only Yang, Wu and Chao from Taiwan can match the best Pinoy bunch of Efren, Busta, Alex, Ronnie, Dennis, Marlon, Parica, Luat...

I'm surprised at this assessment, given how much exposure you have to the Taiwanese tour. Even when Chao and Yang reined supreme in Taiwan, there were world beaters who played just a hair below their consistency (Lee, Hsia, HP Chang, etc...)

These days, you have a host of players who can snap off any caliber tournament in the world. How big a name was Kuo, or PW Chang, both back-to-back finalists at the WPC? Just like in the PHI, where Efren and Busta dominated for many years (or at least held the perception of dominance), there are now a number of young guns who can step to the fore.

I'll only bet on the Taiwanese team when they're playing at home.

Another fair assessment, but also fairly untested, IMO.

(I happen to be half Filipino, half Taiwanese-speaking Chinese. Rest assured I'm not biased too!:cool: )

Once again, I think knowledge, and not some inconsequential tribal allegiance, is the main determinant of bias in this case. In the end, we're all fans of the game, and any analysis should be based on that premise.

-Roger
 
Renegade said:
I think we shouldn't be too hard on Sprite. He's entitled to his own opinion. And if we consider what Buddha also has to say, then Sprite is not very far-off.

I think what we should all avoid is speaking in superlatives and generalizations. The top pool players from the Philippines and Taiwan (as well as Germany) are all very good and can beat each other at any time. It all depends on who's playing better that day.

That said, I think the people who keep repeating Earl's or Johnny's record are losing touch with reality and hanging onto the good ol' days where the Americans dominated pool because there was no real competition.

considering on Sprite's opinion, I partly agree on that one bro. no matter how silly what it makes him look on the thread. however I cannot also blame the other guys for somehow ganging up on him, as that what you get for flaming. as the saying goes, if you play with fire, you'll get a fried meal. :D

considering Buddha or Roger's point of view. as I see it, there is no close comparison against the former. It is clearly observable what Roger's intentions were in his threads compared with Sprite's. Nor was it Biased Nor Flaming. As I said, this is only an honest observation. ;)
 
Last edited:
buddha162 said:
Once again, I think knowledge, and not some inconsequential tribal allegiance, is the main determinant of bias in this case. In the end, we're all fans of the game, and any analysis should be based on that premise.
Tap Tap Tap. Very well said.

I have to say that I truly respect your objectivity when it comes to such discussions.
 
gopi-1 said:
Pool academy in the Philippines is in the streets. If you lose, you and your
family won't eat. Winning is a matter of life or death to them, no ifs or buts.
That's the harsh reality of pool life in the Philippines. There was once a pool
hustler who was deemed as heir apparent to Effie, his name was Eric Lagui.

He took a dive and was found dead the next day, covered in newspapers.
He dumped his manager who was in the military. That's how they take their
gambling there, they're dead serious...

Quite true indeed. I've been following this thread and I've found it both interesting and amusing.

Many wonder what's behind about the dominance of the Filipinos in the pool world, be it playing for big (or small) money games or playing a major tourney. Take aside the basic requisites of skill, talent and imagination required to play the table game, the Filipinos excel because of other factors not all present with non-Filipino players - character, determination, social background, environment and when in international competetion, pride.

Just like what was said in the quote above, pool academy in the Philippines is the local street corner or a small family operated joint where you pay per game played. Pool at this joints is considered by local players to be a full-time occupation or a part-time job to augment an income. Lose and you'll have to skip a meal. Worse, if you have others depending on you, they will also have to skip a meal or meals. Gov't assistance is hardly existent and help is primarily sought from close friends and relatives. In other words, loosing is almost always never and option. Now, take this mentality and plant it to a young mind, perhaps an 8 year old kid who's trying to help a parent or two that is struggling to raise a family. Over time, you will hone a fierce fighting machine ready, willing and able to fight to the last dying breath.

As for pride, regrettably the country had been screwed by colonial rulers for many centuries - mainly the Spanish conquistadores, the Japanese in WWII and economically by the Chinese and the Arabs. History has dealt the people a lot of hardship, grief and misfortune thus teaching them the 'NEVER AGAIN' attitude. In schools, children are taught the harsh and abusive realities that were comitted by the intruders and they are taught to vow to fight any type of oppression. Now, take this content to pool and you'll also find a pissed player who doesn't like to be dominated in any way possible.

As for the game of 9-ball, 9-ball is like appetizer to a Filipino player. The reason being is that, rotation is the game of choice in the Philippines. The concept is almost the same where a shooter has to shoot the balls in numerical order except that every ball matters in rotation because each ball carries it's own point. If no ball is sunk after the break, there are at least 11 balls needed to win a game without a turnover. Moreover, with the generally diminutive Filipino body frame and the searing tropical heat and humidity, the knowledge of cue ball spins, cue ball control and a vivid imagination is a basic requirement in order to navigate your way around 14 obstacles. These skills when mastered, along with God-given talent and luck creates a very formidable and solid player.

The quote above is one of many. My uncle (a good pool player himself) once told me a story of the greatest Filipino player he has ever seen play the game. The name was 'Bicol Bata', and he was in the same generation of Efren and Jose Parica. Unc told me that if you think Efren's game is great, Bicol's game takes it 2 to 3 notches further. He said that watching the guy play looks like the cue ball has a mind of its own. At that time (70's), Efren and Parica would steer clear when this guy was around. Unfortunately though such talent wasn't meant to be around. It was told that one day, Bicol and his possey took upon the challenge of a local town hustler who has been mouthing of mixing it up with him. Word has it that they beat the guy and his backers (the whole town) to the last penny and then some. Upset and angered, the local thugs gave the group a different kind of mixing. Bicol and his gang disappeared after the match and after a couple of weeksl were found in shallow graves near a rice paddy, stabbed to death. To add insult to injury, Bicol's arms were cut off from the elbows - a warning for the others not come to town if you have plans on taking everybody's money. What a waste of talent. Had this guy lived today, we could have seen much more world class pool. ;)
 
The quote above is one of many. My uncle (a good pool player himself) once told me a story of the greatest Filipino player he has ever seen play the game. The name was 'Bicol Bata', and he was in the same generation of Efren and Jose Parica. Unc told me that if you think Efren's game is great, Bicol's game takes it 2 to 3 notches further. He said that watching the guy play looks like the cue ball has a mind of its own. At that time (70's), Efren and Parica would steer clear when this guy was around. Unfortunately though such talent wasn't meant to be around. It was told that one day, Bicol and his possey took upon the challenge of a local town hustler who has been mouthing of mixing it up with him. Word has it that they beat the guy and his backers (the whole town) to the last penny and then some. Upset and angered, the local thugs gave the group a different kind of mixing. Bicol and his gang disappeared after the match and after a couple of weeksl were found in shallow graves near a rice paddy, stabbed to death. To add insult to injury, Bicol's arms were cut off from the elbows - a warning for the others not come to town if you have plans on taking everybody's money. What a waste of talent. Had this guy lived today, we could have seen much more world class pool.


You're talking about Boy Bicol.
The story of his death is close to that but not exactly.
 
JoeyInCali said:
The quote above is one of many. My uncle (a good pool player himself) once told me a story of the greatest Filipino player he has ever seen play the game. The name was 'Bicol Bata', and he was in the same generation of Efren and Jose Parica. Unc told me that if you think Efren's game is great, Bicol's game takes it 2 to 3 notches further. He said that watching the guy play looks like the cue ball has a mind of its own. At that time (70's), Efren and Parica would steer clear when this guy was around. Unfortunately though such talent wasn't meant to be around. It was told that one day, Bicol and his possey took upon the challenge of a local town hustler who has been mouthing of mixing it up with him. Word has it that they beat the guy and his backers (the whole town) to the last penny and then some. Upset and angered, the local thugs gave the group a different kind of mixing. Bicol and his gang disappeared after the match and after a couple of weeksl were found in shallow graves near a rice paddy, stabbed to death. To add insult to injury, Bicol's arms were cut off from the elbows - a warning for the others not come to town if you have plans on taking everybody's money. What a waste of talent. Had this guy lived today, we could have seen much more world class pool.


You're talking about Boy Bicol.
The story of his death is close to that but not exactly.
In 1971-72, if Boy Bicol was Batman I was Robin and our baycave was D'Or Billiards in Cubao. Unforutnately, I cut classes too much that my dad stuck me in a military academy. It was the only way that my dad can detach me from the game temporarily.

Boy really was the guy that Efren and co. stayed clear of or got deep handicaps lest we just sat and watched other people play.

I doubt about the much more world-class pool 'coz I see quite a few reaching Boy's level now. I've backed quite a few potentials since the late 90's and some of them reached heights that I foresaw. There was Benson Palce back in '97 but he got derailed by bad company (drugs). He's making a come-back and won the recent Manny Pacquiao 10-ball Open. There's DeoMark Alpajora, Ronnie Alcano, Dennis Orcullo( yes it's Orc-U-llo the mispell happened when we got a copy of his birth cert for the passport to go to Cardiff). There's Rubilen Amit, the first and only lady that played in the Tokyo 9-ball. Now, there're Mike Takayama 17 who's moved on to Bugsy's and Revo David, another 17 yr old, who was the 1st Phil rep to the World Junior 9-ball and finished 5th. A few 12s and 14s that Joey saw greet me at the poolhall he spoke of in one of his posts. The current and up and coming crop of players have so much more talent at the age they're in compared to the past. Dennis today is at par with Boy Bicol of our time. Even Revo at 17 is 3 levels above Dennis at 17.
 
age...

bandido said:
In 1971-72, if Boy Bicol was Batman I was Robin and our baycave was D'Or Billiards in Cubao. Unforutnately, I cut classes too much that my dad stuck me in a military academy. It was the only way that my dad can detach me from the game temporarily.

Boy really was the guy that Efren and co. stayed clear of or got deep handicaps lest we just sat and watched other people play.

I doubt about the much more world-class pool 'coz I see quite a few reaching Boy's level now. I've backed quite a few potentials since the late 90's and some of them reached heights that I foresaw. There was Benson Palce back in '97 but he got derailed by bad company (drugs). He's making a come-back and won the recent Manny Pacquiao 10-ball Open. There's DeoMark Alpajora, Ronnie Alcano, Dennis Orcullo( yes it's Orc-U-llo the mispell happened when we got a copy of his birth cert for the passport to go to Cardiff). There's Rubilen Amit, the first and only lady that played in the Tokyo 9-ball. Now, there're Mike Takayama 17 who's moved on to Bugsy's and Revo David, another 17 yr old, who was the 1st Phil rep to the World Junior 9-ball and finished 5th. A few 12s and 14s that Joey saw greet me at the poolhall he spoke of in one of his posts. The current and up and coming crop of players have so much more talent at the age they're in compared to the past. Dennis today is at par with Boy Bicol of our time. Even Revo at 17 is 3 levels above Dennis at 17.


Maybe this is the right time to ask how old are you??? ha ha ha ha! those were the times i was very small and now im old, then how old are you? I just cant help myself to stop laughing from the comments!:D
 
:D
buddha162 said:
English is obviously not his first language, it has nothing to do with how old he is.

-Roger


Agree, he was just trying his best but at least understandable:o
 
fanthom said:
Quite true indeed. I've been following this thread and I've found it both interesting and amusing.

Many wonder what's behind about the dominance of the Filipinos in the pool world, be it playing for big (or small) money games or playing a major tourney. Take aside the basic requisites of skill, talent and imagination required to play the table game, the Filipinos excel because of other factors not all present with non-Filipino players - character, determination, social background, environment and when in international competetion, pride.

Just like what was said in the quote above, pool academy in the Philippines is the local street corner or a small family operated joint where you pay per game played. Pool at this joints is considered by local players to be a full-time occupation or a part-time job to augment an income. Lose and you'll have to skip a meal. Worse, if you have others depending on you, they will also have to skip a meal or meals. Gov't assistance is hardly existent and help is primarily sought from close friends and relatives. In other words, loosing is almost always never and option. Now, take this mentality and plant it to a young mind, perhaps an 8 year old kid who's trying to help a parent or two that is struggling to raise a family. Over time, you will hone a fierce fighting machine ready, willing and able to fight to the last dying breath.

As for pride, regrettably the country had been screwed by colonial rulers for many centuries - mainly the Spanish conquistadores, the Japanese in WWII and economically by the Chinese and the Arabs. History has dealt the people a lot of hardship, grief and misfortune thus teaching them the 'NEVER AGAIN' attitude. In schools, children are taught the harsh and abusive realities that were comitted by the intruders and they are taught to vow to fight any type of oppression. Now, take this content to pool and you'll also find a pissed player who doesn't like to be dominated in any way possible.

As for the game of 9-ball, 9-ball is like appetizer to a Filipino player. The reason being is that, rotation is the game of choice in the Philippines. The concept is almost the same where a shooter has to shoot the balls in numerical order except that every ball matters in rotation because each ball carries it's own point. If no ball is sunk after the break, there are at least 11 balls needed to win a game without a turnover. Moreover, with the generally diminutive Filipino body frame and the searing tropical heat and humidity, the knowledge of cue ball spins, cue ball control and a vivid imagination is a basic requirement in order to navigate your way around 14 obstacles. These skills when mastered, along with God-given talent and luck creates a very formidable and solid player.

The quote above is one of many. My uncle (a good pool player himself) once told me a story of the greatest Filipino player he has ever seen play the game. The name was 'Bicol Bata', and he was in the same generation of Efren and Jose Parica. Unc told me that if you think Efren's game is great, Bicol's game takes it 2 to 3 notches further. He said that watching the guy play looks like the cue ball has a mind of its own. At that time (70's), Efren and Parica would steer clear when this guy was around. Unfortunately though such talent wasn't meant to be around. It was told that one day, Bicol and his possey took upon the challenge of a local town hustler who has been mouthing of mixing it up with him. Word has it that they beat the guy and his backers (the whole town) to the last penny and then some. Upset and angered, the local thugs gave the group a different kind of mixing. Bicol and his gang disappeared after the match and after a couple of weeksl were found in shallow graves near a rice paddy, stabbed to death. To add insult to injury, Bicol's arms were cut off from the elbows - a warning for the others not come to town if you have plans on taking everybody's money. What a waste of talent. Had this guy lived today, we could have seen much more world class pool. ;)


I love this post!!!
 
Sprite said:
Sorry for my english.:( i am from China and currently now in SIngapore studying.



You don't need to apologize Sprite, we're not in English 101.
And I understood what you meant...
 
Edwin,

How will you rate Antonio Kapica (spelling?) as compared to Dennis Ocullo?

Thank you.

Richard
 
Back
Top