Phillipino dominance?

[X Breaker]

I just want to add that Yang is very accurate on small pockets, he has a super powerful stroke, and he is very creative as well.
Jump shot is a skilled shot, and it allowed the game to be more aggessively pursued. Taiwanese players are not all bad at kicks, some of them have great knowledge on 3 cushion billiards.
I think it is a matter of getting used to different equipment, and mentality that would make the difference in Yang's match up with Dennis. I do not think Dennis will win for sure, but Dennis is the favorite, based on their past match up results.
Richard

 

[gopi-1]

Edwin,

How will you rate Antonio Kapica (spelling?) as compared to Dennis Ocullo?

Thank you.

Richard

Sorry to butt in X. I would say Dennis is half a ball better than Antonio "Gaga"
Gabica. He lost his opening game to double J in the 2006 US 9-Ball Open last
September but rattled off 11 or 12 wins in a row in the losers' bracket before
bowing out. And all you need to do to win the US Open is to stay unbeaten
and win 10 straight games to win it all.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I just want to add that Yang is very accurate on small pockets, he has a super powerful stroke, and he is very creative as well.
Jump shot is a skilled shot, and it allowed the game to be more aggessively pursued. Taiwanese players are not all bad at kicks, some of them have great knowledge on 3 cushion billiards.
I think it is a matter of getting used to different equipment, and mentality that would make the difference in Yang's match up with Dennis. I do not think Dennis will win for sure, but Dennis is the favorite, based on their past match up results.
Richard

I partly agree on this one X-Breaker. yup, jumpshot is a skilled shot and more definitely an aggressive approach rather than a defensive one. but it must be noted despite the jump being a skilled shot, it is an obvious way to make a shot and an easy escape on a snooker. if I am to compare a jump shot to a kick shot, jump shot is easier to do than kicking a ball. a jump shot is mostly performed in a one way path (focusing on the object without the burden of traveling around the table) while the kick shot most often than not, goes to a lot of directions (2-4 rails, if you are playing against a pro) which usually decreases your %chance on hitting the object ball. the kick shot involves more precise calculation, concentration, preparation, time, angles, speed control, spin control (reverse english if necessary), and imagination. You can see this by the amount of time spent on the table while performing a kick. a jump can be decided within seconds while a kick needs more contemplation (with the exception LUC SALVAS ), which brings me to a point why SALVAS can never be a great player .

the kick shot is more like a Hail Mary Shot (not my UserName). I call it a hail mary shot becoz the objective in a kick shot is to hit the object ball to avoid an automatic ball in hand, hope you don't foul and pray that the object ball doesn't sell out. to tell you frankly, I myself rather jump than kick because of the level of difficulty or amount of skill required to perform a perfect kick. As I have seen, the Filipinos are great at kicking whether aggressive kicks or kicks accompanied with a counter-safety. I believe the filipinos mastered their kicking skills by playing 15-ball rotation; a game which doesn't allow the use of a jump-shot. <<< Am I correct on this one ?
The Taiwanese on the otherhand, mastered the jump shot in 9-ball; a game where it's use is maximized.

In Short, a KICK requires more skill than a JUMP.

 

[gopi-1]

I partly agree on this one X-Breaker. yup, jumpshot is a skilled shot and more definitely an aggressive approach rather than a defensive one. but it must be noted despite the jump being a skilled shot, it is an obvious way to make a shot and an easy escape on a snooker. if I am to compare a jump shot to a kick shot, jump shot is easier to do than kicking a ball. a jump shot is mostly performed in a one way path (focusing on the object without the burden of traveling around the table) while the kick shot most often than not, goes to a lot of directions (2-4 rails, if you are playing against a pro) which usually decreases your %chance on hitting the object ball. the kick shot involves more precise calculation, concentration, preparation, time, angles, speed control, spin control (reverse english if necessary), and imagination. You can see this by the amount of time spent on the table while performing a kick. a jump can be decided within seconds while a kick needs more contemplation (with the exception LUC SALVAS ), which brings me to a point why SALVAS can never be a great player .

the kick shot is more like a Hail Mary Shot (not my UserName). I call it a hail mary shot becoz the objective in a kick shot is to hit the object ball to avoid an automatic ball in hand, hope you don't foul and pray that the object ball doesn't sell out. to tell you frankly, I myself rather jump than kick because of the level of difficulty or amount of skill required to perform a perfect kick. As I have seen, the Filipinos are great at kicking whether aggressive kicks or kicks accompanied with a counter-safety. I believe the filipinos mastered their kicking skills by playing 15-ball rotation; a game which doesn't allow the use of a jump-shot. <<< Am I correct on this one ?
The Taiwanese on the otherhand, mastered the jump shot in 9-ball; a game where it's use is maximized.

In Short, a KICK requires more skill than a JUMP.

You're absolutely correct HMS, the jump is a no-no in rotation, at least in
their (Filipinos) part of the world. A masse' is also a foul if the CB elevates
from the table, in short, no air time whatsoever for the CB in rotation.
The need to master the kick is a must, whether for defensive or offensive
purposes. The pros kick with a plan, a B player kicks and hopes for the best,
while the C-D players just kick and pray!

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Sprite, you mentioned Efren's dismal performance in the 2005 WPC.

Now, do you recall what Marlon did in that very same tournament in the later rounds? He whitewashed TWO Taiwanese superstars in a row. 11-0, 11-0. In front of the Taiwanese homecrowd. OUCH!!!!

I think that pretty much trumps Efren's loss in the group stages because of his poor vision.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

"Kick before you Leap"

You're absolutely correct HMS, the jump is a no-no in rotation, at least in
their (Filipinos) part of the world. A masse' is also a foul if the CB elevates
from the table, in short, no air time whatsoever for the CB in rotation.
The need to master the kick is a must, whether for defensive or offensive
purposes. The pros kick with a plan, a B player kicks and hopes for the best,
while the C-D players just kick and pray!

Cue ball control is the name of the game, so Filipino players prefer kicking/banking which still allow them to control the cue ball. Jumping the cue ball and masse no matter how impressive they look when performed, you will lose some control over the cue ball specially at the end of the shot. I've seen many Efren Reyes videos, but I still have to see one that he tried a jump shot.

If anyone can find a link, post it.

 

[buddha162]

Cue ball control is the name of the game, so Filipino players prefer kicking/banking which still allow them to control the cue ball. Jumping the cue ball and masse no matter how impressive they look when performed, you will lose some control over the cue ball specially at the end of the shot. I've seen many Efren Reyes videos, but I still have to see one that he tried a jump shot.

If anyone can find a link, post it.

Efren has and will jump balls under certain situations. If he doesn't jump as often as he should, it's not an indication that kicking is better under all circumstances; it's indicative that even the great Reyes has gaps in his game.

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

And let me just add that imo it's silly to pit jumping against kicking, or rank them by degrees of difficulty. They're different tools in our arsenal as pool players. They have distinct applications, and should be viewed as distinct options when faced with a snooker. The choice to reach for the jump cue or go to the rails is made with different results in mind.

-Roger

 

[Sprite]

Sprite, you mentioned Efren's dismal performance in the 2005 WPC.

Now, do you recall what Marlon did in that very same tournament in the later rounds? He whitewashed TWO Taiwanese superstars in a row. 11-0, 11-0. In front of the Taiwanese homecrowd. OUCH!!!!

I think that pretty much trumps Efren's loss in the group stages because of his poor vision.

Edited: No comment.

 

[big_worm]

Sprite, you mentioned Efren's dismal performance in the 2005 WPC.

Now, do you recall what Marlon did in that very same tournament in the later rounds? He whitewashed TWO Taiwanese superstars in a row. 11-0, 11-0. In front of the Taiwanese homecrowd. OUCH!!!!

I think that pretty much trumps Efren's loss in the group stages because of his poor vision.

I recall that. Marlon whitwahsed two second-class Taiwanese players (Chen & Huang). But he lost to eventual champion Wu in the semi.
Whitewash in 9-ball is no big deal esp. on winner break. Yang also crushed Alex 7-0, a perfect game, in Super Cup last december. But that didn't reflect whatsoever the standards for both players.
IMO, Marlon, Alex, Yang & Wu are both in the same league. Best players in the world.

 

[bandido]

Maybe this is the right time to ask how old are you??? ha ha ha ha! those were the times i was very small and now im old, then how old are you? I just cant help myself to stop laughing from the comments!

49 in 24 days. Ran around with Boy Bicol in my early teens.

 

[buddha162]

I recall that. Marlon whitwahsed two second-class Taiwanese players (Chen & Huang). But he lost to eventual champion Wu in the semi.
Whitewash in 9-ball is no big deal esp. on winner break. Yang also crushed Alex 7-0, a perfect game, in Super Cup last december. But that didn't reflect whatsoever the standards for both players.
IMO, Marlon, Alex, Yang & Wu are both in the same league. Best players in the world.

okay i gotta give rep for this post...

-Roger (alex is def one of my all time favorite players)

 

[big_worm]

I'm surprised at this assessment, given how much exposure you have to the Taiwanese tour. Even when Chao and Yang reined supreme in Taiwan, there were world beaters who played just a hair below their consistency (Lee, Hsia, HP Chang, etc...)

These days, you have a host of players who can snap off any caliber tournament in the world. How big a name was Kuo, or PW Chang, both back-to-back finalists at the WPC? Just like in the PHI, where Efren and Busta dominated for many years (or at least held the perception of dominance), there are now a number of young guns who can step to the fore.

-Roger

I agree that Kuo, Chang PW, Hsia... are excellent players. And I'm impressed by recent performences by Fu (who just won the recent stop of ranking league) & Chang JL. And pls take note of another up & coming young gun, another Wu - Wu YL, 3 time youth world champion. They all have great potential to be world beaters.
But for the time being, I just don't think they're that BEST yet.

 

[jeffwinters]

49 in 24 days. Ran around with Boy Bicol in my early teens.

happy birthday Master Edwin !

 

[tfdr]

i have seen efren jumped before , in his game against chao..not just a simple jump but a combination in one of san mig tour game..he has a jump cue

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I recall that. Marlon whitwahsed two second-class Taiwanese players (Chen & Huang). But he lost to eventual champion Wu in the semi.
Whitewash in 9-ball is no big deal esp. on winner break. Yang also crushed Alex 7-0, a perfect game, in Super Cup last december. But that didn't reflect whatsoever the standards for both players.
IMO, Marlon, Alex, Yang & Wu are both in the same league. Best players in the world.

It didn't matter who they were, because they just didn't get a shot!! LOL

And on the same note, another very impressive performance of that tournament was Jun Ling Chang running the set out on Bustamante with an 8pack I believe.

Here was this nobody, going up against a titan, and you'd expect him to succumb to the pressure. Normally Bustamante was stone faced, but Chang JL took on that expression and played incredible, leaving Busta in his chair looking quite depressed.

Yes I know there is an incredible depth of talent in Taiwan. IMO, they are second to the Filipinos and right on par with Germans. I have a tremendous amount of respect for them, but I just don't think they have the same depth of talent as a country where you play pool just to eat.

 

[X Breaker]

I like Van van's game very much. He has a very nice tempo when he is playing for money. He is deadly on those small pockets. I have heard he has beaten Dennis, and Ronnie gambling.

From talking to them, they all have a lot of respect for Yang's game, and vice versa.

 

[bandido]

Edwin,

How will you rate Antonio Kapica (spelling?) as compared to Dennis Ocullo?

Thank you.

Richard

Same in capabilities. The problem with Gabica is his focus or lack of concentration. Most of which can be attributed to a very jealous better-half. Maintaining the mental part of the game (focus) is Dennis' advantage.

 

[X Breaker]

Same in capabilities. The problem with Gabica is his focus or lack of concentration. Most of which can be attributed to a very jealous better-half. Maintaining the mental part of the game (focus) is Dennis' advantage.

Yes, I watched him play a few times, and have heard some comment about how well he could play from some of my Taiwanese friends. They speak very highly of his game.
I was expecting him to score some big money game when he was in the US Open, but nothing happened that I knew off. I was a bit suprised, since I believe lots of players did not know him in the US.

 

[X Breaker]

On thing I have noticed from my limited experience is that Taiwanese players are in general more fussy about table conditions and cues, while pinoy players seem very quick in adapting to new conditions and new cues.