Phillipino dominance?

[bandido]

On thing I have noticed from my limited experience is that Taiwanese players are in general more fussy about table conditions and cues, while pinoy players seem very quick in adapting to new conditions and new cues.

That my friend is the big difference and that is a product of poverty.

 

[buddha162]

IMO, they are second to the Filipinos and right on par with Germans.

Taiwan's depth of talent is soooo far beyond that of Germany's. It's not even close.

-Roger (edited to add, "imo...")

 

[buddha162]

I agree that Kuo, Chang PW, Hsia... are excellent players. And I'm impressed by recent performences by Fu (who just won the recent stop of ranking league)

How can I forget Fu...that guy's a freak. I think he went final 8 a couple years back at the WPC.

-Roger

 

[pool whiz]

thread title

just suprised, this thread got 4,521 views and nobody edited the thread's title?.....or we'll just let it go as it's already understood anyway....
just my thought.

bing
www.filipinopool.com

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Efren has and will jump balls under certain situations. If he doesn't jump as often as he should, it's not an indication that kicking is better under all circumstances; it's indicative that even the great Reyes has gaps in his game.

-Roger

Roger, Have you heard of the Red's tourney in '84 where Effie joined? he performed a couple of excellent jumps back then. I did not say that kicking is better. I was saying that kicking requires more time and effort in mastering because of the factors that I had just mentioned. I don't have to repeat myself.

Guys, check out the new thread entitled "Is this Kid Annoying?". it kinda reminds me of Neils <<< a very good player!

 

[k1d]

Regarding the ability of Efren in jumping cueball, I saw one of his match where he jumped the cueball and sunk the object ball and had perfect preparation for the next ball. I think he just removed the lower part of his cuestick. The match I am talking about is just recently. I think in WPC, not more than 5 years ago. Saw it on youtube or downloaded it from the torrent site.

Can anyone name the match i am talking about?? hehehe

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Regarding the ability of Efren in jumping cueball, I saw one of his match where he jumped the cueball and sunk the object ball and had perfect preparation for the next ball. I think he just removed the lower part of his cuestick. The match I am talking about is just recently. I think in WPC, not more than 5 years ago. Saw it on youtube or downloaded it from the torrent site.

Can anyone name the match i am talking about?? hehehe

Regarding Effie's more preference use of the kick rather than the jump, shows the person's character. most of us know the skill of Effie in kicking shots, but quite a few of us only know about his jump shot ability since he rarely uses it. Effie's jumps is as good as his kicks. but the thing is, Effie is not only a great player, he's also an entertainer. Crowds enjoy watching a class act. knowledgeable crowds applaud and are amazed when a jaw dropping shot is performed. most of the time, those shots are the kicks rather than the jumps. Before, when I was a beginner, I was often impressed by a jump shot performed. I was like saying, "Wow, Amazing" ! but as I had myself learned the skill, I came to realize how easy it was to do and how it makes my options easier to pick. at the same time that I had also learned kicking, I saw how imagination comes into play. lot's of options where and how you wanted to navigate the cue ball. the success in performing a perfect kick is highly appreciated by a crowd. most often than not, they love this kind of stuff where their minds are being tickled.

 

[cheemagun]

He's not taiwanese or filipino.. but shin young park can jump better then anybody ive seen.

 

[buddha162]

Regarding Effie's more preference use of the kick rather than the jump, shows the person's character. most of us know the skill of Effie in kicking shots, but quite a few of us only know about his jump shot ability since he rarely uses it. Effie's jumps is as good as his kicks. but the thing is, Effie is not only a great player, he's also an entertainer. Crowds enjoy watching a class act. knowledgeable crowds applaud and are amazed when a jaw dropping shot is performed. most of the time, those shots are the kicks rather than the jumps. Before, when I was a beginner, I was often impressed by a jump shot performed. I was like saying, "Wow, Amazing" ! but as I had myself learned the skill, I came to realize how easy it was to do and how it makes my options easier to pick. at the same time that I had also learned kicking, I saw how imagination comes into play. lot's of options where and how you wanted to navigate the cue ball. the success in performing a perfect kick is highly appreciated by a crowd. most often than not, they love this kind of stuff where their minds are being tickled.

Okay, can I take my pos rep back?

I'm sorry but this is just silly. Kick shots show character?!? Lol...

-Roger

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Okay, can I take my pos rep back?

I'm sorry but this is just silly. Kick shots show character?!? Lol...

-Roger

Meaning Effie is known for his kick shots ! don't dissect the whole statement if you really want to understand what I'm talking about, no offense. I hope you get it this time bro !

 

[crosseyedjoe]

With jump and masse shots the audience can easily predict what the player is going to do. The only suspense is if the player is going to make it.

With kick and bank shots, many times you are going to hear the commentator saying "how did he do that" or "how did he came up with that shot." Unexpected shots can ellicit more response from the crowd. I think that is what Hail Mary Shot is saying.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

With jump and masse shots the audience can easily predict what the player is going to do. The only suspense is if the player is going to make it.

With kick and bank shots, many times you are going to hear the commentator say "how did he do that" or "how did he came up with that shot." Unexpected shots can ellicit more response from the crowd. I think that is what Hail Mary Shot is saying.

Right on target dude ! you must have been closely paying attention! I'll give you an A for your grade !

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

You're absolutely correct HMS, the jump is a no-no in rotation, at least in
their (Filipinos) part of the world. A masse' is also a foul if the CB elevates
from the table, in short, no air time whatsoever for the CB in rotation.
The need to master the kick is a must, whether for defensive or offensive
purposes. The pros kick with a plan, a B player kicks and hopes for the best,
while the C-D players just kick and pray!

GOPI, so in what category does Luc Salvas fall into?
I'm kinda having a difficulty on this one since Luc is a pro but kicks and hope for the best and pray that he doesn't foul or scratch. what I had noticed about his kicks is that most often than not, it's an aggressive and unplanned kick based on how quickly he does the shot. not only the quickness of his decision do we only consider but also the manner on how he applies speed and power on the shot ( at most times, wild shots ). what is amazing is how lucky he is that most of his kicks ends up in a safety. he kinda reminds me of my older brother despite firing away with certain wild shots, he comes up safe and have me hooked up. damn lucky bastard !

 

[fanthom]

I love this post!!!

Thanks sweetie! I thought of sharing a slightly different insight to pool but yet is important and pertinent enough to hopefully shed light to non-Filipino audience. Must be cold in Michie....brrrrrr!

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Yes, I watched him play a few times, and have heard some comment about how well he could play from some of my Taiwanese friends. They speak very highly of his game.
I was expecting him to score some big money game when he was in the US Open, but nothing happened that I knew off. I was a bit suprised, since I believe lots of players did not know him in the US.

Orcullo admits that he's very careful when playing against Gabica, Busta and Van-Van Corteza for money.

 

[fanthom]

In 1971-72, if Boy Bicol was Batman I was Robin and our baycave was D'Or Billiards in Cubao. Unforutnately, I cut classes too much that my dad stuck me in a military academy. It was the only way that my dad can detach me from the game temporarily.

Boy really was the guy that Efren and co. stayed clear of or got deep handicaps lest we just sat and watched other people play.

I doubt about the much more world-class pool 'coz I see quite a few reaching Boy's level now. I've backed quite a few potentials since the late 90's and some of them reached heights that I foresaw. There was Benson Palce back in '97 but he got derailed by bad company (drugs). He's making a come-back and won the recent Manny Pacquiao 10-ball Open. There's DeoMark Alpajora, Ronnie Alcano, Dennis Orcullo( yes it's Orc-U-llo the mispell happened when we got a copy of his birth cert for the passport to go to Cardiff). There's Rubilen Amit, the first and only lady that played in the Tokyo 9-ball. Now, there're Mike Takayama 17 who's moved on to Bugsy's and Revo David, another 17 yr old, who was the 1st Phil rep to the World Junior 9-ball and finished 5th. A few 12s and 14s that Joey saw greet me at the poolhall he spoke of in one of his posts. The current and up and coming crop of players have so much more talent at the age they're in compared to the past. Dennis today is at par with Boy Bicol of our time. Even Revo at 17 is 3 levels above Dennis at 17.

Your dad must've had a premonition. If the story holds true, the body count would've been +1. A blessing in disguise.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Just a nice quote from Billiards Digest;

"Some of the easiest pickings for Efren and the boys came from the nearby Clark Air Base, which had over 50,000 American military personnel. The GIs' pockets were brimming with coveted American dollars, and they were always eager to blow it on a good time.

"We'd hustle in the Officers Club, the Airmen's Club," Morales said. "That was easy money. No handicap. They get tired of us kicking their ass."

Anyone seeking to discover the roots of Reyes' legendary magic, and the Filipinos' insatiable love of pool, need look no further than the U.S. military at Clark Air Base and Efren's home town of Angeles City, which is adjacent to the base. Located 60 miles north of Manila, Angeles City has, for more than 50 years, been one of the world's great outposts of the American game of pool. The sport was mostly introduced to the country by Americans through the base and subsequently Angeles, where a raucous, low-rent, honky-tonk collection of nightclubs and girlie bars catered to GIs on R&R. Back in the 1970s, Angeles was home to the world's largest-ever weekly 9-ball league. Some long-time expat shooters will tell you that some of the current BCA rules of 9-ball came out of that league. "

 

[big_worm]

It didn't matter who they were, because they just didn't get a shot!! LOL

And on the same note, another very impressive performance of that tournament was Jun Ling Chang running the set out on Bustamante with an 8pack I believe.

Here was this nobody, going up against a titan, and you'd expect him to succumb to the pressure. Normally Bustamante was stone faced, but Chang JL took on that expression and played incredible, leaving Busta in his chair looking quite depressed.

Yes I know there is an incredible depth of talent in Taiwan. IMO, they are second to the Filipinos and right on par with Germans. I have a tremendous amount of respect for them, but I just don't think they have the same depth of talent as a country where you play pool just to eat.

Chang JL is not nobody in Taiwan. He's the rising star and one of the most promising young guns. In 2006, I think he was in the Taiwanese top5. (Yang, Wu, Chao, Fu & him in my reckoning)

I couldn't agree more with buddha162. While Germany has two best players in Souquet & Hohmann, Taiwan's got an enoumous arsenal of talents - only second to the Philippines.

 

[Roadie]

Interesting conversation at the pool room tonight. Someone mentioned the "Phillipino dominance" of 9 ball. Upon hear this a man that I have NEVER heard more 10 words from said " the Phillipino dominance is a myth, look at the majors. A Phillipino has only won 2 US Opens, and 3 World championships. The US has one man that has won more US Opens and World's than all the Phillipines combined (I knew he was speaking of Earl) So where is this dominance that everyone speaks of?" Many tried to come up with other Phillipino winners but none could.

Was he correct?

On net the Filipinos may have less major titles than the Americans but they have more consistency of their top players finishing high in the tournaments that they play in. In the biggest tournaments there are always Filipino players in the top five finishers. And Filipino players have also won more majors in the last ten years, where the competition is definitely tougher, than the Americans have. Filipinos also seem to have a knack for snapping off events that they are playing in for the first time. Manalo, Orcullo, Reyes, Pagulayan, are all proof of this as are many others. They come as unknowns and run through fields of champions.

Why don't American players do that? One reason could be that the Asian tour and the European tour is closed to the Americans. (that might be different now). Back in the day when Americans did travel abroad then they did also win abroad.

When it gets down the final match between two champions it is anyone's game. Strickland vs. Reyes, Souquet vs. Reyes, Archer vs. Parica, doesn't matter. All of the top players are world beaters regardless of nationality. Just because they don't have the titles doesn't mean they aren't dominant. The Filipino presence is dominant in the world of pool and the Filipino game has the highest respect from pool players in every country. That is the real dominance.

 

[buddha162]

Meaning Effie is known for his kick shots ! don't dissect the whole statement if you really want to understand what I'm talking about, no offense. I hope you get it this time bro !

No, I understood exactly what you're saying, and I think you're expressing a silly sentiment. Sorry.

Efren kicks when it makes sense to kick, jumps when it makes sense to jump. The only time he'll choose to kick when he knows he should jump---to please a crowd---is at an exhibition, or if he's playing for free.

-Roger