player's responsibility for calcuttas

Tin Man

Tin Man

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Some people seem to think that when you are bought in a calcutta that you have an obligation to do well for the person that bought you. They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

It is NOT the same. A backer is someone that a player makes an arrangement with that is offering to cut the player in. A calcutta is much more like a side bet.

Suppose that you and a buddy were playing a race to 3 playing one pocket for $10 before you had to go to work, just to pass the time. Now the games take a while and the score is 2-1 you. You have to get going to work, so you tell your pal to just call off the set. Suddenly, a guy you have never met before gets pissed off because he made a side bet with another stranger for $3,000 and thinks that you are obligated to finish your race to 3. Wouldn't that seem strange?

Everyone has their own reasons for playing tournaments, and I feel that it is unfair to assign players responsibilities that they didn't ask for. Calcutta purchasers should be responsible for researching which players consistently stick it out and which don't and FACTOR THAT INTO WHAT YOU ARE BIDDING! If you do you will come out ahead, as your horse will sometimes advance when another player forfeits out!

P.S. I have always tried hard every match of every tournament. I just think that it was my choice, not my obligation!
 
Tin Man said:
Some people seem to think that when you are bought in a calcutta that you have an obligation to do well for the person that bought you. They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

It is NOT the same. A backer is someone that a player makes an arrangement with that is offering to cut the player in. A calcutta is much more like a side bet.

Suppose that you and a buddy were playing a race to 3 playing one pocket for $10 before you had to go to work, just to pass the time. Now the games take a while and the score is 2-1 you. You have to get going to work, so you tell your pal to just call off the set. Suddenly, a guy you have never met before gets pissed off because he made a side bet with another stranger for $3,000 and thinks that you are obligated to finish your race to 3. Wouldn't that seem strange?

Everyone has their own reasons for playing tournaments, and I feel that it is unfair to assign players responsibilities that they didn't ask for. Calcutta purchasers should be responsible for researching which players consistently stick it out and which don't and FACTOR THAT INTO WHAT YOU ARE BIDDING! If you do you will come out ahead, as your horse will sometimes advance when another player forfeits out!

P.S. I have always tried hard every match of every tournament. I just think that it was my choice, not my obligation!
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I have to agree with you- I always say "when you buy an idiot, that's what you get".

However, we ae in the minority in our view as we shall soon see.
 
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who???

Tin Man said:
Some people seem to think that when you are bought in a calcutta that you have an obligation to do well for the person that bought you. They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

It is NOT the same. A backer is someone that a player makes an arrangement with that is offering to cut the player in. A calcutta is much more like a side bet.

Suppose that you and a buddy were playing a race to 3 playing one pocket for $10 before you had to go to work, just to pass the time. Now the games take a while and the score is 2-1 you. You have to get going to work, so you tell your pal to just call off the set. Suddenly, a guy you have never met before gets pissed off because he made a side bet with another stranger for $3,000 and thinks that you are obligated to finish your race to 3. Wouldn't that seem strange?

Everyone has their own reasons for playing tournaments, and I feel that it is unfair to assign players responsibilities that they didn't ask for. Calcutta purchasers should be responsible for researching which players consistently stick it out and which don't and FACTOR THAT INTO WHAT YOU ARE BIDDING! If you do you will come out ahead, as your horse will sometimes advance when another player forfeits out!

P.S. I have always tried hard every match of every tournament. I just think that it was my choice, not my obligation!
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Did you ever play in tournements in athens ga at murphy brass rail????
 
I kind of agree with you. But if the player doesnt plan on finishing the tournament they should let the bidder know (common courtesy). Also, there are numerous players who would dump in the finals if there stake would go up by 50 cents. It happens too often in pool and is another main reason the sport has no main sponsors.
 
Tin Man said:
Some people seem to think that when you are bought in a calcutta that you have an obligation to do well for the person that bought you. They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

It is NOT the same. A backer is someone that a player makes an arrangement with that is offering to cut the player in. A calcutta is much more like a side bet.

Suppose that you and a buddy were playing a race to 3 playing one pocket for $10 before you had to go to work, just to pass the time. Now the games take a while and the score is 2-1 you. You have to get going to work, so you tell your pal to just call off the set. Suddenly, a guy you have never met before gets pissed off because he made a side bet with another stranger for $3,000 and thinks that you are obligated to finish your race to 3. Wouldn't that seem strange?

Everyone has their own reasons for playing tournaments, and I feel that it is unfair to assign players responsibilities that they didn't ask for. Calcutta purchasers should be responsible for researching which players consistently stick it out and which don't and FACTOR THAT INTO WHAT YOU ARE BIDDING! If you do you will come out ahead, as your horse will sometimes advance when another player forfeits out!

P.S. I have always tried hard every match of every tournament. I just think that it was my choice, not my obligation!
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On the Viking Tours we give you a choice as to whether you want to or not want to participate in the auction. If you choose to participate you are bound by our rules of participation. In all cases under our guidelines if you participate in the Auction and purposely forfeit a match you are fined the amount that the buying bidder purchased you for. This fine is deducted from any prize money you won in the tourney and or auction. If your earnings do not equal your fine you are banned from participation in future Viking Tour events until you have paid your fine. All fines are refunded to the auction buyers and not retained by the Viking Tours.



Mj

Mj
 
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Tin Man said:
Some people seem to think that when you are bought in a calcutta that you have an obligation to do well for the person that bought you. They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

It is NOT the same. A backer is someone that a player makes an arrangement with that is offering to cut the player in. A calcutta is much more like a side bet.

Suppose that you and a buddy were playing a race to 3 playing one pocket for $10 before you had to go to work, just to pass the time. Now the games take a while and the score is 2-1 you. You have to get going to work, so you tell your pal to just call off the set. Suddenly, a guy you have never met before gets pissed off because he made a side bet with another stranger for $3,000 and thinks that you are obligated to finish your race to 3. Wouldn't that seem strange?

Everyone has their own reasons for playing tournaments, and I feel that it is unfair to assign players responsibilities that they didn't ask for. Calcutta purchasers should be responsible for researching which players consistently stick it out and which don't and FACTOR THAT INTO WHAT YOU ARE BIDDING! If you do you will come out ahead, as your horse will sometimes advance when another player forfeits out!

P.S. I have always tried hard every match of every tournament. I just think that it was my choice, not my obligation!
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I agree with this Tin Man, buyer beware is the best policy to go by. It is also along the same lines that I disagree with giving jelly for a calcutta. I have never had a player offer me jelly when I lost money in a calcutta nor would I expect it. I have also never expected jelly in a golf calcutta even though I've won people thousands of dollars when we accidentally didn't buy all of ourselves.
 
I've been on the receiving end, when a top pro that I owned in the calcutta quit in the middle of a match.

In a perfect world, we could assume a pro will always give maximum effort, but we know better. If you go to the racetrack, sometimes the horse you bet on doesn't feel like running hard that day, and if you bet on a poolplayer, you face the same risk.

As far as I am concerned, poolplayers owe nothing to those purchasing them in a calcutta. When they give less than a maximum effort in competition, they shortchange their sport, not those who've sidebet on them.
 
sjm said:
I've been on the receiving end, when a top pro that I owned in the calcutta quit in the middle of a match.
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If I recall correctly, then that same pro came on here and said he didnt quit-It was the last game and he raked the balls according to him which i know to be BS. Been on my crap list ever since and i only lost once betting against him.
 
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I agree. The player has no obligation to continue play if he doesn't want to. However, if that player simply quits, he is now just a quitter. I have more respect for a guy who tries and goes two and out than for a guy who quits because he lost and is now in the losers bracket. Nobody likes a quitter.
 
MikeJanis said:
On the Viking Tours we give you a choice as to whether you want to or not want to participate in the auction. If you choose to participate you are bound by our rules of participation. In all cases under our guidelines if you participate in the Auction and purposely forfeit a match you are fined the amount that the buying bidder purchased you for. This fine is deducted from any prize money you won in the tourney and or auction. If your earnings do not equal your fine you are banned from participation in future Viking Tour events until you have paid your fine. All fines are refunded to the auction buyers and not retained by the Viking Tours.
Mj

Mj
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Not a bad idea at all. Of course it isnt perfect. I once quit a non calcutta tournament by putting up 2 beads for my opponent whenever he won. He didnt mind at all.
 
looking at this

If a player is obligated by contract such as in Mike's tour is one thing, if a player isn't it is nice to say he might bail early but if he does and then doesn't bail then people will say he manipulated the calcutta. The player is damned if he does say something, damned if he doesn't.

The bottom line is that calcuttas are gambling. Part of the gamble is often how your horse is going to respond to a loss. Some get annoyed and rip through the losers side, some get annoyed and go home. There are also simple business reasons for quitting. Pool is a pro's livelihood. If there are better opportunities to make money somewhere else it only makes sense to do it. He isn't under contract to finish most of his tournaments and if he forfeits he pays the agreed penalty, his entry fee and anything else he has bought of himself.

I like Mike Janis' deal that it is in the rules that you play or pay a fine. Without that in the rules a player is perfectly free to do what is best for them. They have to weigh the various factors and make their own decisions. I don't think the rest of us have enough knowledge of their personal position when they decide to judge whether their decision was right or wrong.

Hu
 
sjm said:
I've been on the receiving end, when a top pro that I owned in the calcutta quit in the middle of a match. .........

.....................
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you must have purchased Earl Strickland..:wink:
 
Tin Man said:
They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

.QUOTE]



In the absence of prior arrangements with the tournament promoter or with any buyer the Player has neither legal responsibility nor moral obligation.:cool:
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vagabond said:
Tin Man said:
They say it is like having a backer, and that quitting is 'bad business' and not sportsman like.

.QUOTE]



In the absence of prior arrangements with the tournament promoter or with any buyer the Player has neither legal responsibility nor moral obligation.:cool:
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Depends what their morals are. Johnnyt
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Granted people that buy players in the calcutta are nothing like backers. But these people are the ones putting money into tournaments. Some 500 added tournament gets 2k to the winner only because of calcutta money. If people keep hacking up calcutta bidders like they do their backers when they gamble people might start seeing tournament purses dropping quite a bit. In another thread I posted that's it's like cheating a backer and maybe didn't make myself clear enough. It's not like cheating a backer, it is just as bad though. If you are a top player and you show up to a tournament you should know people are going to bid on you play your best, whether you win or lose you finish for the other people in the next tournament that brings more calcutta bidders
 
While I do feel that it is unsportsman like, buying someone in a calcutta is something you do at your own risk. Dumping and chopping are things that occur everyday in pool...thats one of the reasons this sport cannot leave the ground. JMO.

Southpaw
 
I can imagine it would be a crappy thing to buy someone for $200 and up just to have them forfeit at some point.

Without cals there goes a lot of cash from the events that run them. In the end it is a buy at your own risk. That's why I will not get involved in it unless it's on myself pretty much.

"Any" player can quit for many reason during an event. Is it a good thing to do when someone has a bunch of money posted on you for the cal, No, But it happens.. and nobody can change it......

The Viking event for example. They have the rule of if you forfeit with money on you in the cal you must pay it back. All one would have to do is just lose their match purposely to get out of that if they wanted to quit.

I totally agree with what Mike did there. It's a good thing. I would hate to feel dumped in a way if my horse quit in the running. But there are ways around it still. So in the end it is buy at your own risk.

Which again is why I do not get involved in the cals unless it's on myself or special conditions. Such as someone I know personally that will not quit.
 
MikeJanis said:
On the Viking Tours we give you a choice as to whether you want to or not want to participate in the auction. If you choose to participate you are bound by our rules of participation. In all cases under our guidelines if you participate in the Auction and purposely forfeit a match you are fined the amount that the buying bidder purchased you for. This fine is deducted from any prize money you won in the tourney and or auction. If your earnings do not equal your fine you are banned from participation in future Viking Tour events until you have paid your fine. All fines are refunded to the auction buyers and not retained by the Viking Tours.



Mj

Mj
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As usual, the correct answer.

Thanks Mike,

Ken
 
For all the nits....

This kinda pisses me off.

Calcuttas are a way for pool players to make money. In local tourneyments, I usually bid on a few players, but this makes the pool of money larger and makes for the player a way to usually double his money.

For example if the tourney pays 1000 and the calcutta pays 2000 (not unusual) I get 1000 and the player would get 2000.

If somebody did this to me....he might have problems later.

ken
 
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