Players Union???

Prior to IPT forming, I spoke about a players organization with Frank Alvarez - to protect the interest of players in situations such as Danny Harriman's nonpayment for an event he played in.

Danny was not a UPA "dues paying member" and he received very little help in obtaining payment.

The UPA changed their sanctioning guidelines. The new policy was that prior to sanctioning any event, the added money had to be there - and placed in an escrow account. This policy was passed to ensure that they would not be in the same situation again. No "players organization" was established, however the players had representatives - and it was system that worked well. Frank assured me that a "players organization" was not necessary within the UPA organization.

Over the years things have changed - the UPA infrastructure has changed drastically since 2005, leadership has changed and new policies have been adopted.

When the IPT formed in 2005, I said that it was important for the players to establish some kind of representative organization in its dealings with the IPT. I was basically told to "STFU - don't rock the boat - this is the best thing to ever come along - etc etc - Blackjack, GFY in obscurity for all we care, we got money to make." Well, we all know what happened next.

The players need to understand one thing - unless they establish a professionally run organization to represent them professionally in their dealings with promoters, sponsors, and tour management, they will continually get used and abused as a result of of not conducting themselves in a professional manner.

It seems every time the players show up to make money, they have to bend over a barrel to stick their hand through the cash window. Common sense should tell them to stop bending over the barrel. Until common sense takes over and until professionalism is placed above instant monetary gain - then getting screwed will continue to be the norm.

I would welcome and support a players organization in any tour that I am involved with. I believe it is a necessity to the players. It's vital for the players to have representation in their own interests separate from the tour.
 
I am of the opinion today that professional pool is dead in the water here in the States.

A handful -- and I mean only one hand -- of American pros with sponsors and stakehorses can travel to Fujairah, Philippines, and elsewhere to compete professionally. Not every pro has a Cuetec, a BCA League, or a Fatboy to pay their way.

Support the regional tours, the best bang for the buck. This is the American pool scene today.

JAM
 
JAM said:
I am of the opinion today that professional pool is dead in the water here in the States.

A handful -- and I mean only one hand -- of American pros with sponsors and stakehorses can travel to Fujairah, Philippines, and elsewhere to compete professionally. Not every pro has a Cuetec, a BCA League, or a Fatboy to pay their way.

Support the regional tours, the best bang for the buck. This is the American pool scene today.

JAM
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Jennie

I look around at everything that is going on today in the world of pool, and all I see is the OPPORTUNITY to do an about face and proceed in the opposite direction of those that have brought us to this point.

We have to have the balls to stand up to them and say - no more. We won't take it anymore - and if you try anything else to screw us over - we'll push you farther away from our game and keep you out. If they try to force their way back in, we'll kick them out on their ass again and again until they get the message and understand that we're not their victim anymore.

Hopefully the right people will read that and take note. There is a contingent of people that want to move forward with the best interests of the game at hand - as well as the best interests of the players.

However, we need to pay attention to what will bring forth a substantial profit to a potential sponsor. Until we figure that out, we will continue to run in circles chasing our tail. Thinking small (regional tours) won't accomplish that.

10 years ago nobody cared about the UFC, nor did anybody know who Dana White was. Today they matter. Like Dana White, I have a vision - but I need help in most every other area in building something worthwhile. I'm not too proud to come out publicly and say that. I possess certain skills and abilities, and there are some skills and abilities I do not possess - which is why I seek the guidance of those that possess the skills I don't.

I'm not interested in building an empire, I don't need power and prestige - not interested in that- and neither is anybody I am talking to or trying to work with. We are trying to take back our game. We have to take it back, pt it in the right hands, and point it in the right direction so that we can have something we're all proud of. It's possible - amongst the current ruins lies golden opportunities - the old has to crumble so we can start to build from scratch. We didn't get in this situation overnight, we won't be successful overnight. Its going to take a hell of lot of hard work - constantly - from everybody involved - including players, promoters, room owners, etc.
 
Blackjack said:
Jennie

I look around at everything that is going on today in the world of pool, and all I see is the OPPORTUNITY to do an about face and proceed in the opposite direction of those that have brought us to this point.

We have to have the balls to stand up to them and say - no more...Its going to take a hell of lot of hard work - constantly - from everybody involved - including players, promoters, room owners, etc.
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Industry members claim they're not making any money from pool.

BCA is made up of industry members.

BCA is taking over the ranking of professional MALE players.

The professional MALE players, the majority of whom are UPA members, are in the middle.

Pool room owners are hosting regional tournaments, hoping to break even if they're lucky.

The existing lot of American professional players is dwindling, with the exception of those sponsored by BCA League and Fatboy and maybe a few others.

With the cost of a gallon of gas rising daily, I am not enthusiastic about driving to pool tournaments, paying an entry fee, hotel costs, food, and other associated expenses when my counterpart MUST come in third place for us to break even.

The bottom line, sad to say, is money. Without it, pool has one tire stuck in the sand.

JAM
 
How is it that the pro's don't req. some type of confirmation that the prize money is in place and will be awarded? It's very expensive to travel and compete and then find there is no prize money avail.
 
hilla_hilla said:
After seeing Fatboy's thread I was wondering if anyone knows whether there is or has ever been a players union for professional pool?
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Yes, many of them. Usually they're not called "unions" but they seem to try to provide the same function. I think Jon Wertheim went into some of the history in "Running the Table: The Legend of Kid Delicious." The ones I know of are: one formed about 1954 with Crane among others, the PPPA, the PBA, the PBTA, the PCA, and the UPA. I think there was also something in the 1930s that tried to have independent championships. Where's Shamos when you need him?

I think all of them failed because they were run by players. Of course at the end of its life, the PBTA/PBA was run by a non-player, but that didn't work out well either.
 
JAM said:
I am reminded of Mark Trainer, poor fellow.

When the IPT first came to the fore with its mega millions, Mark Trainer thought he saw an opportunity to buy as many IPT players as he could and be their agent.

Oh, the promises he made, and some he kept, giving pool players a $25,000 signing bonus. :eek:

His vision was that he would get corporate sponsors and have pool players receive hundreds of thousands of dollars doing commercials. He contacted a sports agent company that works with baseball and football players.

Poor Mark Trainer must have forked out $100,000-plus.

As we all know today, the IPT went under. Mark Trainer is stuck for his investment monies that he paid out to all the pool players he tried to buy.

A players union won't do much good because nobody cares. The sports agent company did not seem to be interested in pool players.

United we stand, and united we all fall down! :o

JAM
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I don't think anyone should feel sympathy for this man. He attempted a business endeavor that involved a great deal of cash outlay and high risk. The business failed.

Businesses start and fail every minute of everyday, I've had several myself that did not work.

Such is capitalism and the American way............
 
Although it would be in the best interest of the industry to promote pool and do what it can to get more people playing pool, the industry is not "greed" driven as implied.

What the industry is is small. It's made up of small to medium sized companies, mostly small ones, who struggle to survive. Especially now when the economy is down and pool's popularity has been going down for several years anyway. When money gets tight recreational spending goes first. It's much cheaper to surf the internet than it is to drive 20 miles to play pool.

Pool is a game in most American minds, an afterthought. It is not a professional sport and certainly not a high profile one. On top of that what professional events do make it to television are confusing and conflicting in the variety of formats, rules, and organizations. It's no wonder that the British girl and the Asian girl are more well known than any of the living male pros. And that's not saying much because that is exactly how Allison and Jeanette are thought of by much of mainstream America who happens to catch pool on TV once in a while.

So using professional pool and pool players to promote one's product has almost always been more a labor of love than anything else. All of the sponsors of pro players should be applauded for their efforts, past and present. Seldom has there been an expense of this nature without a clear way to measure the return on investment. On top of that most companies in the billiard industry don't have the marketing budget to go along with the pure sponsorship. They don't publicize the relationship enough because they have invested all the money into paying the player.

All that said though it's pretty clear that IF there were a consistent PRO tour on TV then it would get more people off the couch and playing.

I have long said that the leagues, which have pretty much saved pool in the last 20 years, the leagues could fund a viable pro tour. And it would be win-win as more people playing would swell the membership of the leagues. With 200,000 plus people paying dues almost every week in the United States it is a simple proposition to take a very small percentage of that money and fund a pro-tour that would CERTAINLY find a home on TV. Pool doesn't need to be on ESPN and treated as a circus show. It can be on a channel like the Travel Channel and thrive.

But the pool world would rather continue to be fragmented. The APA will never cooperate with the BCAPL and the VNEA and the ACS and TAP and so on to take a small percentage of their member's fees and fund a viable pro tour.

Mike Janis has long promoted something similar that relies on using money gathered from regional tour players.

The point is people that if we want Pro Pool to thrive in the United States then it has to come from a broad base. As sorry a state as pool is in we still have a broad base from which to draw on and could fund a viable and visible Professional Pool Tour for decades IF we really WANTED to.

Mark Griffin - I was not kidding - run the numbers and you will see that I am right.
 
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