Playing better players to get better?

Playing by yourself will only take you so far.

Much of pool is about knowledge. What to do when and what not to do.

You can learn this from better players but not by playing with them.

Ask them to teach you. Pay if you must. Become friends with them.

Most players of equal ability practice with each other and share info with one another.

That is the way I learned.

Take what you have learned to the practice table and practice it over and over.

You build confidence by playing players you can Beat. Not the other way around.

Bill S.
 
Playing better players can only help but only if you are playing with that mindset. Hey, play to win, expect to lose, but watch carefully. What does he do and think to yourself why is he doing it. Heck, after the shot is over, ask him as well.

Playing a state champion a few times a week really helped myself. The more I studied him the more I saw how much he concentrated. And I mean on every shot. We played for "funsies", but don't tell him that, he never let up, not for a second, not for a game, never took a flyer, he wanted to win. He practiced like he plays in tourneys.

So, the 2 takeaways for me, is practice like you're playing in a tournament. No flyers. If the safe is there, take it. No hero shots, even in funsie games, unless you have no choice.

And this biggest thing I learned from him was shoot every shot like you have $1000 on it. That is exactly how he shot every single ball. He never just gave you the table, and you always, no matter what, got his best game, every time.

Folks game would go up by huge percentage points if they just concentrated just as hard on the easy shots. Imagine how much better any league player would play if they never missed an easy shot again, or just once in a blue moon.
 
When you have all the knowledge and skill set in place, how is running over a bunch of C players going to improve your game? I always believed in pushing one to their breaking point day after day to improve.
 
When you start to reach the "A" level the biggest difference IMO has already been eluded too. Consistency. An A level player probably knows all of the shots and leaves as most higher level players, but the higher level players make very few mistakes. I'm talking miscues, missed balls, missed position, basically they are more consistent with everything. And trust me, just one or two errors will easily cost you the match at that level.

Focus is another huge factor as mentioned with the guy who won the State Tournament. Intense focus is what eliminates mistakes and helps to get you into the "zone" much faster. Blocking out distractions is another one. Those that can block out other's talking or other extraneous noises during play have a huge advantage IMO.
 
KenRobbins said:
When you have all the knowledge and skill set in place, how is running over a bunch of C players going to improve your game? I always believed in pushing one to their breaking point day after day to improve.
Click to expand...

Ken,

It’s a lot like trying to practice on a super tight table.
That will make you gun shy and influence your game on a loser table.

I got this advice from Wimpy Lassiter who I used to practice with and learn from.
We played on the loosed table possible.

You need to play pool with rhythm. Play without thinking about it.
You can also help yourself by playing against weaker players. It builds your self confidence and allows you to play the majority of the time.

Against a stronger player you will struggle and not be able to play your best game. You think about everything. Getting beat is not a way to improve.

Bill S.
 
the major issue as I see it

Aside from the hustling, "I match up well." "You are a blankety blank blank nit" if you won't give me the best of a match-up, there is another problem.

Playing a better player, particularly playing him cheap or for table time, lets him free roll. You aren't seeing how he plays under pressure, how he plays an equal when he knows he can be punished severely for a mistake or taking excessive risks.

To learn you need a good view on the rail of better players in tournament play or in a fairly important gambling match against equal players. Then their real game comes out. With the tons of free video minutes out now really breaking down and studying videos just like a football team studies game play can be more valuable than donating to anyone.

With all of that being said, there are hothouse basement players that play great with nothing on the line or practicing on their home table. The only way to learn how to handle yourself in competition and know how you will react is to get into competition and get some toughening. There will be times your mental game lets you down and it will be a humbling experience. There will be other times when you hang tough every inch of the way and the more of this experience you build up the tougher your mental game will be. Running dozens of racks at home won't do as much for your mental game as running one rack to close out a big gambling match or tournament.

Every competitor needs knowledge and seasoning. They don't get it getting calluses on their butts while donating to someone they have zero chance against.

Hu
(A side note, I used the male pronoun throughout. A couple of the strongest players I encountered in my first few years of play were ladies. The use of the male pronouns isn't any implication that some ladies can't flat play too!)
 
bstroud said:
Playing by yourself will only take you so far.

Much of pool is about knowledge. What to do when and what not to do.

You can learn this from better players but not by playing with them.

Ask them to teach you. Pay if you must. Become friends with them.

Most players of equal ability practice with each other and share info with one another.

That is the way I learned.

Take what you have learned to the practice table and practice it over and over.

You build confidence by playing players you can Beat. Not the other way around.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

I must say, I was surprised when I read your post, you are the first high level player I ever heard, tell what I believe to be the truth also.
You don't learn anything racking and getting your brains beat in.
To get better you learn new ideas and concepts and practice them until you reach your highest level of efficiency at them .
Then if you want to gamble, at least you are not an unarmed combatant.
My hats off to you ,sir.
 
bstroud said:
Ken,

It’s a lot like trying to practice on a super tight table.
That will make you gun shy and influence your game on a loser table.

I got this advice from Wimpy Lassiter who I used to practice with and learn from.
We played on the loosed table possible.

You need to play pool with rhythm. Play without thinking about it.
You can also help yourself by playing against weaker players. It builds your self confidence and allows you to play the majority of the time.

Against a stronger player you will struggle and not be able to play your best game. You think about everything. Getting beat is not a way to improve.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

That does makes sense. I've been burned out and taking a little break from pool to get adjusted to my new job. When I get back to the table I'll be looking for all the C players to build that confidence back up. Thanks for the response and saving me from myself.
 
If this were true, then the pros winning events would rotate more frequently.

Right now I think only a handful of pros are consistently winning or placing in the cash.

It does take a while for middle pack players to reach the top.

The saying is correlation does not mean causation. A fancy way of saying it happens, but its not a deciding factor.
 
book collector said:
I must say, I was surprised when I read your post, you are the first high level player I ever heard, tell what I believe to be the truth also.
You don't learn anything racking and getting your brains beat in.
To get better you learn new ideas and concepts and practice them until you reach your highest level of efficiency at them .
Then if you want to gamble, at least you are not an unarmed combatant.
My hats off to you ,sir.
Click to expand...

If you want to test your skill against a better player by all means do so.
Just make sure you can afford it and you can mentally stand the punishment.
Not everyone can.

Wimpy and I would play 9 ball for $2 a game. I knew I probably would not win but if I lost he would buy me dinner and the other way around.

I learned more about pool at the dinner table than on the pool table. It was the same with Eddy Taylor. They would both explain things and expect you to take those Pearls to the table and teach yourself.

That is the best way after all because then what you have learned is truly Yours.

Bill S.
 
bstroud said:
If you want to test your skill against a better player by all means do so.
Just make sure you can afford it and you can mentally stand the punishment.
Not everyone can.

Wimpy and I would play 9 ball for $2 a game. I knew I probably would not win but if I lost he would buy me dinner and the other way around.

I learned more about pool at the dinner table than on the pool table. It was the same with Eddy Taylor. They would both explain things and expect you to take those Pearls to the table and teach yourself.

That is the best way after all because then what you have learned is truly Yours.

Bill S.
Click to expand...
Bill you REALLY need to commission a book. Your years of both playing and making cues would make for some great reading.
 
If you want to get better you will. Playing players who are better than you certainly has its benefits and they are fairly obvious to most of us. Beating players who are lesser players than you can also be beneficial because sometimes those players do certain things better than you do. Bottom line - if you want (really want) to improve you will.
 
I found for me a ratio of:

50% Equally matched (a coin flip to who will win if both are playing their best)
25% Racking for better players (reality check)
25% Hammering weaker players that stand NO Chance (this teaches the habit of winning but you need to be ruthless)

This ratio worked the best for me...
 
Aside from the random draw factor in tournaments or playing in a pool league like APA, NAPA , BCA etc.,
you should strive to play better, stronger players than yourself to avoid the temptation of playing down to
your opponent's skill level which tends to happen a little all too often so you really need to try and play up.

Matt B.
 
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Bavafongoul said:
Aside from the random draw factor in tournaments or playing in a pool league like APA, NAPA , BCA etc.,
you should strive to play better, stronger players than yourself to avoid the temptation of playing down to
your opponent's skill level which tends to happen a little all too often so you really need to try and play up.

Matt B.
Click to expand...

Matt,

I never had the inclination to play down to another players level so I don’t know what you are talking about.

I once had to play a guy in a tournament who was in a wheel chair. He had already beaten a few players that based on his ability he should not have.
I beat him 5 zip and gave him no chance.

Same when I played women like Lorie Shampo and Robin Bell. They could play. No mercy.

If you want to win you do not let up! It’s the same playing the Ghost.

Bill S.
 
In the late '70s I played pretty good.
Then i started playing a lot of 9 ball and straight pool with Neptune Joe Frady.
Joe never ventured far from N.J. and was better known among the top players.
But Joe could play with anyone in that time period,he was that good.
I learned a lot just watching him run out on me.
We started out with me getting the 6 in 9 ball and several years later I was playing him with the 8.
Straight pool started out 100 to 60 and wound up 100 to 80.
I got better just by playing a player of his caliber.

You will learn nothing by playing people below your speed.
 
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