Playing better players

G

Gmanpoke

Banned
A lot of people say to get better you have to play better players and I agree with that, but how about playing someone a ball or two below you. And, you give them a good spot. Wow, does that ever create a lot of pressure.

I've started playing a local guy on a bar box giving him the 7. The 7 on a bar box is huge weight, at least for me. But, it puts a lot of pressure on me. I feel as though I can't afford to make any mistakes.

Steven
 
Gmanpoke said:
A lot of people say to get better you have to play better players and I agree with that, but how about playing someone a ball or two below you. And, you give them a good spot. Wow, does that ever create a lot of pressure.

I've started playing a local guy on a bar box giving him the 7. The 7 on a bar box is huge weight, at least for me. But, it puts a lot of pressure on me. I feel as though I can't afford to make any mistakes.

Steven
Click to expand...

I agree that this is a whole lot better than playing someone that cant play at all. I do the same thing. I have a friend that loves cheap action, but I have to give him a ton of weight. (7+last4 in 10b)

But when you play better players, you have the added bonus of watching them play, and being able to learn from it.

When it comes to developing performance, Id prefer to be in a bad game with a better player and lose a few bucks, rather than a good game with a lesser player.

Keep in mind, i'm taking cheap friendly sets here. When were talking about playing for more than a hundred a set or so, Id much prefer to be stealing.... ;-)
 
I still don't understand all the lingo for spots on other players.

I seem to be playing either folks that can crush me or the other way around. I need to understand how to handicap or spot other players to keep it fair, competitive and pressured.

What are the various phrases and what the heck to they mean? I get totally confused reading in the Action Room.
 
Wink said:
I still don't understand all the lingo for spots on other players.

I seem to be playing either folks that can crush me or the other way around. I need to understand how to handicap or spot other players to keep it fair, competitive and pressured.

What are the various phrases and what the heck to they mean? I get totally confused reading in the Action Room.
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This is from an old thread where we were discussing this:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1784872&highlight=wild#post1784872

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This is correct.

WILD BALLS

A wild ball is just like the 9 ball. If that ball is pocketed legally, by hitting the lowest number first, that game is won.

EX: I have the wild 6, I shoot the 1-6 combo and the 6 goes, I won.
EX: I have the wild 6, I shoot the 1,2,3,4,5, then the 6, i win.

You cannot shoot a ball out of order. I have never seen or heard of 9 ball being played that way.

CALL BALLS

these are the same as wild balls, except the ball in pocket shot must be called. If a CALL BALL is made, but not called, I would continue shooting, but not win the game.

AND OUT

This is how I have always played this.

The 7-Out would indicate that the 7,8,and 9 are wild balls and if any are shot in legally, the game is won.

The 6-out would be the 6,7,8,9 are all wild.

EX: I have the 7 out, I break, make the 7, I win
EX: I have the 7 out, I shoot the 1-8 combo, I win

LAST BALLS

The last 3 would indicate that if I shoot any of the LAST 3 remaining balls on the table, I win.

EX: I break making the 7. I do not win the game. Once I shoot out the 1,2,3,4,5, the 6,8,9 are remaining. If i legally pocket the 6 now. I win.
 
Wink said:
I still don't understand all the lingo for spots on other players.

I seem to be playing either folks that can crush me or the other way around. I need to understand how to handicap or spot other players to keep it fair, competitive and pressured.

What are the various phrases and what the heck to they mean? I get totally confused reading in the Action Room.
Click to expand...

What you'll find interesting about handicapping yourself or your opponent, you'll begin to realize the meaning/value of what you did. If you become good at this you're able to play any player in the world if you can get and realize what is needed in order to win, great gamblers have all learned the hard way.
Basic concept in 14.1 I'll spot you 25 going to 75 and for example that can be slightly adjusted to if I give you the 25 ball spot then you must break.
Rotation, races to ? getting games on the wire (bird in the hand), I give you two games so I go to 9 and you go to seven.
Non races or races, making another ball count as a win other than the highest ball, make that ball call or wild, or call on break and wild after break, or wild all the time but call on the break, or if not called and made in the wrong pocket you lose your turn and on and on, your variables are limitless.
 
Gmanpoke said:
A lot of people say to get better you have to play better players and I agree with that, but how about playing someone a ball or two below you. And, you give them a good spot. Wow, does that ever create a lot of pressure.

I've started playing a local guy on a bar box giving him the 7. The 7 on a bar box is huge weight, at least for me. But, it puts a lot of pressure on me. I feel as though I can't afford to make any mistakes.

Steven
Click to expand...

the best way to get better is playing better players.
 
real bartram said:
the best way to get better is playing better players.
Click to expand...

YEP, giving out weight all the time, does put pressure on you, but you're game can become stagnant (you likely won't learn much off of someone who needs weight from you, whereas you will very likely learn something from someone BETTER than you). I'd like to see what someone who plays better than me does in certain situations. That's why I want a few games with "pros" at the Derby.....Chris??? 1P??? :cool:
 
real bartram said:
the best way to get better is playing better players.
Click to expand...

That's absolutely true. I keep trying to match up with some of the other locals, most of whom I have to give some weight to - and I'm not even a B player yet. But giving someone 3 on 7 in 9 ball, I still can't get take it down because I inevitably start playing down to their level.

I think the problem is even though you're the better player, you really don't take the game seriously; meaning if you miss a ball, you know there's almost 0% chance of your opponent running out, so you aren't quite as determined to get out as you should be... or would be playing someone better than you. Someone who, if you miss anywhere on the table, will get out. Playing a weaker player, you always expect to get back to the table, so it's "no big deal" if you miss the 5 or 6...

Even though I usually end up on top when I give some weight, there's a few spots I can't outrun; the 3 on 7 is the one I have yet to be able to beat. :(
 
I use to go on the road with better players and match up with them.
My best friends were and still are great players. I went down hill
roading and playing and practicing everyday with them. It was bad
on my confidence with them telling me who I can and can not beat.
Well just so happens my best road player friend moved away and I
had no one to travel with or practice with. I bought my table and
started reading and working on my game and spent a lot of time here
on AZ . My buddy came back a couple years later to visit and we
went straight to the table and he found out I no longer missed the
7 ball during my run outs. There is absolutely no doubt that they
were holding me back. Not on purpose but still holding me back.
I do think you need to play better players until you reach a certain
level. Then it is about you and the table in front of you. A boxer does not have a sparring partner beat his ass on a daily basis getting him ready for
a match. I guess it also has a lot to do with your knowledge. There are things a better player can teach you but IMO there is a point where you
have to play your own game
 
peteypooldude said:
I use to go on the road with better players and match up with them.
My best friends were and still are great players. I went down hill
roading and playing and practicing everyday with them. It was bad
on my confidence with them telling me who I can and can not beat.
Well just so happens my best road player friend moved away and I
had no one to travel with or practice with. I bought my table and
started reading and working on my game and spent a lot of time here
on AZ . My buddy came back a couple years later to visit and we
went straight to the table and he found out I no longer missed the
7 ball during my run outs. There is absolutely no doubt that they
were holding me back. Not on purpose but still holding me back.
I do think you need to play better players until you reach a certain
level. Then it is about you and the table in front of you. A boxer does not have a sparring partner beat his ass on a daily basis getting him ready for
a match. I guess it also has a lot to do with your knowledge. There are things a better player can teach you but IMO there is a point where you
have to play your own game
Click to expand...

You mean getting ran over by champions every week for my paycheck isn't gonna help me???:confused: But they all said that's the only way I will get better!!! LOL!! J/K...
 
Playing better players means you get to see shots, techniques and play that you don't know. Knowing the technique will give you an advantage the next time you play them. It is a difference in training you see when playing better players afterwards you learn some things you can do on your own.

The myth is exposure to higher levels will somehow enhance someone's skill level is a half truth. The part that is true is learning ideas you've never seen before makes you better. The part that is unclear is if it is a credit to the player you played or the fact you learned something new.

When I play worse players I usually just see them get frustrated or hear them oversimplify my playing style. Sometimes I like to play even worse than they are just to see what kind of a show they put on. Usually its a face of "you can't beat that" or "I thought you were good" for a whole match. Every now and then I like to take the lead to see the insecurity surface to their face.
 
Playing better players is one of the better ways to improve. But better players often in a gambling situation where they have the best of it, take riskier shots, perform unorthodox run out patterns of high risk and on and on. This way when you do get back to table in a situation you thought you would not of it may keep you playing longer than you should, hustling come to mind? I've always felt a combination of all things/games/conditions/reading/matching up etc. and inner drive are what helps you reach your potential. Also going to a major event like the US Open and watching is a great learning tool, here players are never laying down and your getting the true read on the player and their patterns. When McCready was coming on strong in Costa Mesa Hard Times back in the mid 70's, he rarely played players better than he, he had to play players of lesser skill/but was handing out allot of weight. What helped he played ALL the time, every day for years, so matching up and being in constant action is I think an even better tool for improving than always playing players that are better than you. Every player knows something his opponent doesn't that gives him an edge, one can learn allot sometimes by playing a player a ball or two under your skill level. I don't think Bartram always gambles with opponents better than he, unless he matches up great.
 
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Reality of losing

What I find very valuable is being objective in evaluating loses.

Did I lose because I can't give player X this spot (he rides too well or is underrated)?

Did I lose because I was too tired from a bad day's work, just not focused?

When giving out big spots it seems like you are the only one shooting, OFTEN YOU ARE. You make 80% of the balls and lose. Why? Usually you just aren't running out. Leaving them 2-3 balls which they can do.

I enjoy looking at a set or series when I lose or win to a good player or better. So often the winner broke a bit better, rolled better or made the one shot that turned things in their favor.

When playing great pool against great players so little decides the winner sometimes.

It's invaluable to learn what spots to give and ask for. Learn what you prefer to give and get. Games on the wire for me when I get weight, called 8 ball means nothing unless it's in the hole. If i make the 8 I will get out on the 9 almost every time anyway.

I give weaker players all the breaks, plus a ball and a game. The break doesn't matter if they can't get out. Leaving me 6 or so to run down.

The golden rules are as follows:

1)The person giving up the weight usually wins
2)The person giving up the weight can usually give more, just ask.
 
Play three people

Gmanpoke said:
A lot of people say to get better you have to play better players and I agree with that, but how about playing someone a ball or two below you. And, you give them a good spot. Wow, does that ever create a lot of pressure.

I've started playing a local guy on a bar box giving him the 7. The 7 on a bar box is huge weight, at least for me. But, it puts a lot of pressure on me. I feel as though I can't afford to make any mistakes.

Steven
Click to expand...
You need to plays 3 different folks. Play people you kill as this will build confidence by winning. Play your own speed. More competitive makes you play up. Play someone way better. This could be where you learn and be awesome when you do beat them. Some people in certain situations can't play the better player, so count your blessings when you find those folks. Practice by yourself. Some problems cannot be addressed while playing an opponent.
 
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