If you feel like your the underdog, winning turns out to be so much better. I noticed most answers had the issue of money. I wish that I would have suggested that you cannot use the money factor in your answers. I guess when you get down to it is all about the money. You can go broke quick chasing a dollar.
Playing in a tournament you know you can't win
- Thread starter lastdimetaker
- Start date
Everyone loses.
Yes, I agree.
In 1981 I won a free trip to the BCA National 8-ball Championships in Vegas. Out of 500 + players, I drew defending champ Nicky Varner. I lost 5-2, and was disheartened (I missed two great opportunities to make it 4-3 with me breaking), and lost my second match too.
But I was still glad I made the trip and got to play one of the world's best.
Yes, I agree.
In 1981 I won a free trip to the BCA National 8-ball Championships in Vegas. Out of 500 + players, I drew defending champ Nicky Varner. I lost 5-2, and was disheartened (I missed two great opportunities to make it 4-3 with me breaking), and lost my second match too.
But I was still glad I made the trip and got to play one of the world's best.
About playing better players.......there is some truth in this. When I find someone better than me, I play them until this is not the case anymore.
However, lately, I've been noticing that when playing someone less skilled, I do back off somewhat. Why I do this has been something that concerns me. Still working on this one. This is one of the patterns I noticed in my last tourney cycle.
Handicap players are not always the better player, but the player the pool gods just happen to favor that night.
Playing true better players straight up is the only way to truly now where you stand skill wise. This is what put me in my place after playing in handicap tourneys. Playing a top player straight up. Humbling to say the least.
However, lately, I've been noticing that when playing someone less skilled, I do back off somewhat. Why I do this has been something that concerns me. Still working on this one. This is one of the patterns I noticed in my last tourney cycle.
Handicap players are not always the better player, but the player the pool gods just happen to favor that night.
Playing true better players straight up is the only way to truly now where you stand skill wise. This is what put me in my place after playing in handicap tourneys. Playing a top player straight up. Humbling to say the least.
I get that, Lyn, but the gap is HUGE. Grand Canyon-esque.
And while I don't recall the details, the entry fees were significantly more than the $10-20 I'm prepared to "donate'. 
It would truly be embarrassing. Lyn, you can play. Me, not so much. And even that wouldn't bother me so much, if it weren't as substantial an amount to pay for the experience. And whatever it was, $65, $85, perhaps more, is substantial to me right now.
Money and time have got to be the 2 reasons that account for the vast majority of folk's excuses, I do believe.
tommyg0080
Registered
I'm a firm believer in playing higher-level competition to improve your game. I'm no master player, but I've found that on a given day, I can beat the very best when I'm on my game. That just builds my confidence even more and makes me a better player.
I think if you enter a "stacked" tournament with the goal and mindset of getting better and learning more about the game and not so much about winning, then it can be a pretty positive thing. Like someone else said, it would probably be cheaper than paying someone for lessons.
I think if you enter a "stacked" tournament with the goal and mindset of getting better and learning more about the game and not so much about winning, then it can be a pretty positive thing. Like someone else said, it would probably be cheaper than paying someone for lessons.
Well, I'm one of those guys who doesn't go out of his way to play in tournaments. I don't like playing when I have no shot. I just don't buy that losing to a better player somehow causes their skill to 'rub off' on you and you'll walk out of the tournament a better pool player.
One lesson, from the right instructor, will probably improve your game more than 1000 dollars invested in tournaments or gambling.
One thing the tournament WILL help with is handling pressure. If your game is pretty well rounded and there's not much more to learn in terms of fundamentals, shot selection, moving the CB, etc... then dealing with pressure might just be the last obstacle in your path to greatness.
One lesson, from the right instructor, will probably improve your game more than 1000 dollars invested in tournaments or gambling.
One thing the tournament WILL help with is handling pressure. If your game is pretty well rounded and there's not much more to learn in terms of fundamentals, shot selection, moving the CB, etc... then dealing with pressure might just be the last obstacle in your path to greatness.
I am inclined to agree. I already know that if I get out from everywhere and/ or turn the table over as a result of my own choice/ strategy then I will win.
Only thin that keeps me from being fully onboard is the fact that I have seen some good shots that I would not have thought of, that are incredibly effective and easy.
That decision is up to you. There are lots of threads on AZ regarding playing in events in which you have no chance of cashing let alone winning. I've donated for years. My game has grown stronger for it. It is hard to lose a lot. If even one shot comes up in the tournament you attended and that shot teaches you something new, the entry fee was worth it. It's hard to put an exact value on a great lesson learned. The $70 entry into a Joss 9 ball event is cheap lessons! Pay attention both while you're playiing and between rounds. Good luck!
Lyn
I get that, Lyn, but the gap is HUGE. Grand Canyon-esque.
It would truly be embarrassing. Lyn, you can play. Me, not so much. And even that wouldn't bother me so much, if it weren't as substantial an amount to pay for the experience. And whatever it was, $65, $85, perhaps more, is substantial to me right now.
Dub,
At one time we (and all other players) were both beginners.
Honestly think some of my life was wasted chasing the pool dream. Tough to be too weak for the best and too strong for the weak. You're always chasing.......
Lyn
I am confused at how getting beaten makes ME a better player. More determined, yes - and that is a facet of competition, but pool tends to be a competition with yourself. Sitting and watching someone beat me may give me a chance to observe different shot execution, but that alone doesn't make ME better because I still have to learn how to execute the shot. There are many opportunities to watch very high level of play online, without an entry fee. So that aspect of tournament play to me would be a hard sell.
If I am not mistaken, the majority of players posting in this thread believe that a tournament is a cheaper or better alternative to lessons. Even Stevie Moore posted on here that lessons was one of the best things he could do AND he was already super strong. Why would anyone who is a lessor player think a tournament or two is more valuable than a professional lesson?
I recently took a lesson and can honestly tell you that it was a better investment than my recent state tournament cost and they were pretty near equal witht he cost of room/travel/etc. It is my reasonable deduction that those who haven't taken lessons are the only ones who don't see the true value in them. I wish I had taken a lesson 20 yrs ago.
It is my suggestion if you know you can't win the tournament, work on your stroke. If you don't REALLY know what that means - save for a professional lesson. Make sure that lesson includes video review and provides a method to review the lesson. I can't get back the 20 years of non-perfect practice back but I can sure encourage other to find someone to truly help them so they can be confident in themselves when it is time to enter that tournament.
If I am not mistaken, the majority of players posting in this thread believe that a tournament is a cheaper or better alternative to lessons. Even Stevie Moore posted on here that lessons was one of the best things he could do AND he was already super strong. Why would anyone who is a lessor player think a tournament or two is more valuable than a professional lesson?
I recently took a lesson and can honestly tell you that it was a better investment than my recent state tournament cost and they were pretty near equal witht he cost of room/travel/etc. It is my reasonable deduction that those who haven't taken lessons are the only ones who don't see the true value in them. I wish I had taken a lesson 20 yrs ago.
It is my suggestion if you know you can't win the tournament, work on your stroke. If you don't REALLY know what that means - save for a professional lesson. Make sure that lesson includes video review and provides a method to review the lesson. I can't get back the 20 years of non-perfect practice back but I can sure encourage other to find someone to truly help them so they can be confident in themselves when it is time to enter that tournament.
Uhmmmm, because you learn how to RACK THE BALLS properly
??? :thumbup:You have a lot of valid points in your whole post, as do many others in this thread.
Maniac (donatin' rack-beotch :embarrassed2
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This post is worth re-reading, imo
Yeah, even the "duckie haters" are gonna have a hard time disagreeing with that post.
Maniac (not a hater)
“The credit belongs to the man (or woman) who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes up short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotion, spends himself in a worthy cause; who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who have never tasted victory or defeat.”
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
That's a GREAT quote, right there!!! Mucho appropriate for this thread.
Maniac
The real question for me is if it is in a game or tournament that I can learn from. You can't get better unless you play against someone better. However, you will not get better unless you are able to learn how to win also. So you need to play talent that is close to to your own talent as well.
"Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." ---Casey Kasem
"Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." ---Casey Kasem
I agree with you completely. And as I said in my original response, I will play in any of the local tourneys here, in the $10-20 entry fee range, and I don't have much of a chance in those, either. I know I need the experience, and I enjoy it.
I'll continue chasing, rest assured. I simply am.not at a point where I am willing to spend that much money to embarrass my self. It's not about worrying about if I could win, or even win one match. It would be an expensive way to make myself feel bad. My playing in a Joss event makes as much sense as me playing in The US Open, which is to say it makes no sense whatsoever.
That having been said, if I can continue to make progress, and develop my game more, I would love to have that experience.
I have entered a tournament being absolutely sure I can not win.
As my level of play has progressed, I don't think like that any more.
Not saying I am even close to an A player, but I know I have the chance to beat anyone in the world when playing 9-ball in a short race.
I know I am capable of running out when the balls are open, I know my opponent will not play a perfect game. I know I can get some rolls in my favour.
Lets say I am playing a race to 7.
I KNOW I am capable of breaking and running out twice. That's 2.
My opponent may very well scratch on the break and leave 1-9 hanger. That's 3.
I know I can get lucky and make the 9 on the break 2 times. That's 5.
I know there is a possibility my opponent misses an easy 9 and leaves it for me. Thats 6.
6 is almost enough, a couple of good rolls or one more break and run and I have won.
I feel that if a player is capable of running out(not a consistent runout player), there is always a chance he might win the whole event.
Ambitious? Yes. Impossible? No.
As my level of play has progressed, I don't think like that any more.
Not saying I am even close to an A player, but I know I have the chance to beat anyone in the world when playing 9-ball in a short race.
I know I am capable of running out when the balls are open, I know my opponent will not play a perfect game. I know I can get some rolls in my favour.
Lets say I am playing a race to 7.
I KNOW I am capable of breaking and running out twice. That's 2.
My opponent may very well scratch on the break and leave 1-9 hanger. That's 3.
I know I can get lucky and make the 9 on the break 2 times. That's 5.
I know there is a possibility my opponent misses an easy 9 and leaves it for me. Thats 6.
6 is almost enough, a couple of good rolls or one more break and run and I have won.
I feel that if a player is capable of running out(not a consistent runout player), there is always a chance he might win the whole event.
Ambitious? Yes. Impossible? No.